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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi guys, I'm new to talking on this BB, but I've read just about all the posts regarding mini's that I could see. You guys are a lot of smart and inventive fellows, with a huge willingness to help and direct a person to whatever resource they may be asking about!!!
I had a little trouble getting signed up, probabely because of the weekend, but now that I'm here, I've got a question about a project, and I want and need your help, suggestions (keep 'em clean) and opinions on it.
Project is: rebarreling a mini-30 (Ranch/stainless/wood) to the 6BR caliber.
Why? I love my mini's (I also have a mini-14, ranch/stainless/synthetic). I am a hunter, not a bench rester but I do put a lot of lead into the target range's backstop. It's primary purpose will be to hunt deer, but could be used for coyotes as well. We run deer and coyotes with hounds, so you can see the benefits of the mini. I like the similar balistics to the Winchester .243. The 7.62x39 does suffice for deer, but it's so ordinary! I'm also a bit of a speed demon. I like everything I have to go as fast as it can. (I'm going to rebarrel the mini-14 to a .17 Remington). My smithy has done a mini in .22BR, so he says all I need is the stones to go for it. What do you think???
 

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why not 300WSM? Hell, go for it all!!!!!!
 

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It sounds like a neat conversion but the problem would be finding 6mm brass for it unless you can make your own. ASI in Colorodo can do this conversion and install a nice accurate barrel.
 

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Welcome to the forum ylycoyote. Well you asked what we think so here it is. You stated you were a hunter, so as far as the mini-14 goes I would leave it stock .223/5.62mm. You can shoot a wide variety of ammo for not a lot of money suitable for smaller game/varmints coyote size or smaller. I'm using mine for coyotes up to 300 yds. with 62 grn. semi points. With the .17 rem were talking 20 to 25 grn bullets. The big disadvantage with this bullet is wind will be a killer at 100 yds or greater, the bore will have to be cleaned more often or the accuracy will drop off rapidly, and a small variation in powder can produce wide swings in both velocity, and pressure. (this is from my Hornady Rel Manual).

For converting the mini-30 to a 6mm Br. I'm wondering about the ammo feeding from the mini's magazine. The 6mm BR cases are .026" wider, and.032" longer However the C.O. L. is 2.200" on both std ammo and the 6mm BR. I'm not shure how this would work. Do you reload? I'm also not shure you can find factory ammo for this. I would check out these issues first. Another posibility 6mm ppc.

ASI does very good work. Check out: http://www.accuracysystemsinc.com/ruger_mi...ini_prices.html
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
why not 300WSM?

Did't like the recoil of the 300WSM in the mini!!!!

Thanks for all the words of wisdom cajungeo. Believe it or not, I've agonized over all the points that you bring up. The mini-14 is the first chambering in .223 that I've had and it impresses me, does a great job on 'chucks and not too shabby on the coyotes either. So yes, if I decide to stay with it, I won't be hurtin. But, again, it's so normal. I own a .17 in a Remington 700 BDL that I've used for chucks and also coyotes. When you hit a chuck with the .17, there's no fine red mist (unless you're within 20 yds), but they never leave the spot they were in when the trigger broke. If I did the 6BR job on the mini-30, I could use it for chucks, coyotes and deer, that would leave the mini-14 (.223) gathering dust. By making it a .17 it would be guaranteed to be the chuck gun!

Yes I do reload: .17, .243, 7mmMag. Geno, I've checked into the availability of 6BR brass. It doesn't grow on trees, but it can be found at most of the major reloading sites and stores. Don't think anyone sells factory ammo yet, but did hear that Norma might??

You're right cajungeo, the 6PPC would be an easier conversion since the 7.62x39 is its parent case (22PPC also), but it doesn't offer the case capacity and balistics that the 6BR does. Remember, I'm a speed freak....faster is better

Because I live in Canada, the exchange rate on the dollar causes any purhases from the States to cost me double its original price when I finally get it in my hand!!!!! That hurts more than the kick of a 300WSM mini!!! I know there are many folks south of the border that do fine work on mini's like ASI but my smithy gets his barrels from a famous Canadian barrel maker, Maclellan (not sure of spelling) and he has done several mini's in different calibers, so I think I'll stick to a home grown. I know his 6x45's work great, but the 6BR would have more punch.

You may have a point about the feeding from the mini's mag. My smithy didn't say there was a problem with the 22BR (same case). I'll ask next time talking to him.

I can't be the first nut to try or want to try this conversion. Have you heard of a 6BR mini before? If anyone has, please give me your experiences, good or bad.

.......faster is better
 

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Sounds like you have it figured out. No I haven't heard of anyone building a semi-auto 6mm BR, only bolt actions. If you haven't already, enter 6mm BR in your search engine, many links will come up on ammo, reloading, barrel building, and the round in general, will come up. I started to give you some, but there were to many. It seems like an awsome round for the broadrange of hunting you like to do. We would be interested in how your project turns out. Keep us posted.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Will do cajungeo. I've been impressed by some of the reports that I've read in the posts about gun accurizing and building. A lot of short cuts can be gained by hearing about other's experiences as well as pit falls avoided. That's why I posted my proposed project, to see if anyone had fallen into a 6BR pit.

Straight Shootin
 

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Hey Coyote Man:

I went through the same palpitations you are... and ran the ballistics on my computer for 6mmBR and 6mmPPC...

For some reason the computer picked a 60 gr. weight bullet (every body in benchrest is shoot'n 68-70 gr. at the moment, heavier bullets better in the wind...3/4 of 'em are still shoot'n 6mmPPC!!! 70 gr. slugs shoot best in a 1-14" twist, but lighter (faster) 60gr. bullets would need a 1-12" twist)

More speed also erroads the throat faster... even though you'll probably go SS barrel, like everyone else...

Anyway, the hottest load for 6mmBR peaked @3,489 fps. The hottest load with same bullet and powder with the 6mmPPC was 3,420 fps... These readings are for BOLT GUNS !!!

Computer ballistics for 70 gr 6mmPPC out of a bolt gun were 3,186 fps.

I am presently building a 6mmPPC with ASI and expect to see around 3,000 to 3,050 fps with a GAS GUN (you loose about 100 fps with the bleed off and cycling of the gas system...)

Also keep in mind that most accurate loads are normally DOWN a few clicks on the powder measure... from MAX PSI.

Compared with the 55 gr..223 a 70gr 6mm slug is 27% heavier and packs 1578 ft. lbs at max, bolt gun, velocity vs 1354 ft. lbs. for the .223 max. load with 55 gr. bullets.

Can't remember if the bolt needed mods for the 6mmBR case or not ... But the 6mmPPC takes NO bolt tweaking ... Read that as FREE !!!

The 6mmPPC cycles best with FACTORY (no aftermarket) Mini-14 mags, not Mini-30 (7.62x39mm) like you would think... This allows only 18 Rds. in 20 Rd. Mag, but you want the best cycling action you can get...(You got's to start with a Mini-30 and swap out the trigger housing with a Mini-14 one...)

Carl @ ASI tells me the reason for this mag choice is the shoulder angle difference with the 6mmPPC vs. the 7.62x39 They have gone as far as creating a special relief at the chamber shoulder they use, to allow the 6mmPPC brass to feed properly...

Ive run into enough "hurdles" with this project to fill my range bag twice... Lessons learned, stay with what's proven and a
Smith experianced in your chosen cartridge... It will be expensive enough with a custom gun... If it doesn't cycle smoothly you might end up with a pretty expensive club... AB
 

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I have one in 6PPC, I asked a smith about a 6 BR before it was done. He said NO, to much pressure on the action once the bolt face was opened up. Think thats why Ruger dumped the X-GI way back when.
RR
 

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Hello yly,

How about a 6mmX223 or a 6mm TCU depending upon who has the cheapest (available) dies?

I know of a fellow who had the conversion a few years ago but lost track and never found out any results.

There really isn't a simpler solution to the 6mm dilemma. Anyway, the case capacity is very similar and I doubt that the mini could wring out the accuracy potential of the ppc anyway.

Hey, it's just a rebarrel job.

Good luck.

CK:usa:
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Thanks crokilr, I have 2 friends that had the mini rebarrelled to the 6x223 or 6x45 as they call it, so I'm aware of its performance. Saw it kill a bear last fall! You're right, it's the simplest way to go to a 6mm, but 2 friends have one, how copy-catish would that be??? even so it might be my backup plan.

Abendicum, thanks for relaying your experiences. I have been wondering about the "real velocities achieved with a gas gun" as compared to the published "maximum velocities". Does anybody else have some real velocities achieved with their 6PPC, 6x45, 6BR or any other 6mm to share with me??? How about you Ridge Runner?? How's your 6PPC shoot?
The new barrel will be stainless, so hopefully willl be able to withstand the hotter loads better than chrome-moly.
Right, the 6ppc has same bolt face as mini-30 and 6BR needs to be opened up by about .025" diameter, that's only .012" all around. Mini's practically have that much slop. Is that a huge amount in the world of bolt enlarging? I hadn't heard of the "to much pressure on the action once the bolt face was opened up" problem that Ridge Runner's smith states.

In Canada, the penalty for posessing a mag with a capacity greater that 5 is the same as being caught with a prohibited firearm (uzi, sawed-off, machine gun etc.)..........jail time!!!!!!!!!! So it doesn't make any difference about the 20's down to 18 for me. It would hurt to have to go down to 4 though.

New question: ARS does the mini 30 in 7.62x39 Ackley Imp. and 25x39. Has anyone done these chamberings? How do they perform?

:confused:
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Hey Abendicum: "70 gr. slugs shoot best in a 1-14" twist, but lighter (faster) 60gr. bullets would need a 1-12" twist) "
I could be wrong, but don't you have this backwards? Dont heavy bullets need to be spun faster to stabalize?

:beer:
 

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Theoretically your right but the 6ppc has been massaged for so many years with MUCHO testing that the 1-14"s been tested thousands of times... and found to be the most accurate.
Look at Shilen's twist rate chart:

6mm/.243 8" Special for VLD bullets over 100 gr.
10" For bullets up to 120 gr. and VLD under 100 gr.
12" For bullets up to 85 gr.
13"* For bullets up to 75 gr.
14"* For bullets up to 70 gr.
15"* Special for bullets up to 70 gr.

It was only in speaking to Doug Shilen that I learned of the abnormality myself (seems only for the the 6ppc) lighter bullets 60gr use 1-12"... Doug also said that the 1-15" was reserved for experiments and not to go there if I wasn't already using it...

Anyway ALL the Smiths know this... the 1 in 14" is the standard for Benchrest for many, many, years- tried and true... because the vast majority shoot 68- 70 gr. bullets in their 6ppc's with Ultimate Accuracy...

You also can see it for a barrel that Brownell's sells part no. 787-950-724 (description reads 6mm/1-14) AB
 

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Hello Yly

In response to the "opening up the boltface stresses the action" statement, it is probably referring to bolt thrust.

To get bolt thrust, multiply the area of the cartridge case head by the pressure.
If you do this, you can see that 45000cup in a .223 is alot diferent than say, the same pressure in a .308 size head.

Those locking lugs are pretty small on the mini and I wouldn't want to put too much on them.

I'm curious, what kind of performance did your friends get with the 6x45? I have a couple of 6mm barrels and was considereing the conversion myself.

CK:usa:
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Thanks Abendicum for the info on the twist rate anomoly for the 6ppc. I was unaware of that phenomenum for that cartridge. Any guesses on why? Knowing that I will be shooting 55 - 90 gr bullets, which twist would you recommend? Remember, I'm not in it for benchrest pin point accuracy, if I get 1moa along with respectable deer punchin power while still able to sing 55 grainers at mach 3, I'll be happy. From your chart, I read 12" as the rate of twist for me.

Thanks crokilr for the explanation re bolt thrust. makes sense.
how do you determine a pressure rating for a specific cartridge?

I will inquire about the 6x45's performance, as I remember, it didn't cause me to go ooooooh.

yly
 

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never did any chrony work with the PPC yet, have only used one load in it, 55 gr. nosler behind max charge of H322 I think. shoots really well but for what I have in the thing it better. Tim Wilson at ARS was the man who said that the gun wouldn't be safe if opened up to BR size. MV will vary depending on what barrel length and make that you use. Mine has a lother walther match grade SS 1/12 20" tube on it. Has grouped in the .2-.3's if I'm on my game.
RR
 
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