Perfect Union banner
21 - 40 of 41 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,293 Posts
there is nothing to scale the target what group size overall?
I have had low flyers what I do is run a couple rounds thru hand cycle rapidly dropping the bolt then chamber a round drop the mag and top off - this is at the range, off the bench when I'm trying for tight groups.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
4,076 Posts
View attachment 27826 Hope this is a clear picture of the target. :)
You are looking at One inch squares. From cold bore to the highest flyer # 5 is a little less than two and a half inches. Two of us shot 1 inch targets all day after I corrected for warm bore center. Ran 138 rounds in 3 shot groups without either shooter going outside a 1 inch by One Box. Now I'll state that the rifle is capable of MOA at 100 yards with shooters that are capable of that level of accuracy. By the way, Chopper feels a whole lot better about Mini-30's than he did when we left the 200 Yards Range, might even be able to convince Him to try the 300 Yard Range at a later date.
Sorry it took so long to get back to Ya'll, but the Cigars, Bourbon, and Hoppe's on the Back Porch took Priority. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
166 Posts
Discussion Starter · #24 · (Edited)
If I'm not mistaken you pictured 6 inch (or where they 8 Inch?) cadwell targets. None of the 5 shots in this cold bore rapid fire string went outside of a 2 1/2 by 2 inch area. How far did your cold bore shot end up from the Zero for the rest of the day's shooting?

I believe you can get the cold bore to warm barrel group center at less than 2 MOA when you hit the right Harmonic to Torque ratio. JMHO.
I added some more info on this post. The black circles are 8 inches in diameter. On the bottom left target the first low shot was from a cold barrel. It's about 3.25 inches from the closest one next to the center. On all but one of the other targets the barrel was not cold on the first shot. On the bottom right (tightest group) I had fired about 3 shots at 25 yards to get it sighted in close enough to be on paper at 100. Then I moved out to 100 yards & shot the group. This group was 13/16" from center to center of the farthest bullet holes. This was with a squeaky clean gun. The barrel was not cold but maybe just slightly warm. Most of the other targets were probably with a warm barrel. Some of the targets were shot on a different day also. The dates are on the targets. The first 2 targets on the top were shot with no front buffer, just a rear buffer. The others were with a rear buffer only. I put the front buffer back in to try next trip. I'm going back to the range Saturday morning so maybe I can get some more pics up in a few days. I will take my torque driver with me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
166 Posts
Discussion Starter · #28 ·
Back to the range again this morning. Shot 5 groups while trying to cool the barrel between shootings. As it got later in the morning it was pretty much impossible unless putting ice on the barrel because of the heat. Also pulled a dry patch several times through the barrel about every half dozen shots but never during a grouping session. I'd shoot 3-4 shots per group except the last in which I shot 5 rounds. Groups run about 1.25-1.5" not counting the cold first shot. Loads were H335 with 31.5 grains in the first 3 targets & then 31.7 & 32 in the last. I did start the torquing process on the 3rd target top row. This was the last target I shot. By then it was really hot. The 2 bottom holes were my first & last shot. Don't know why the last shot went back low unless it was just me. Don't know if I learned anything more except that 24-25 torque setting didn't help any so I'm going higher next trip. At least I won't have to true it back in again so that will save a few shots. Had a guy at the range suggest I change the bullet seating a little. I didn't think it would affect the 1st cold shot but maybe the grouping. What's everyone's opinion on that?
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,293 Posts
I tried seating the 123gr and 150gr bullets out, a bit longer OAL. didn't seem to make any diff.
with the loose chamber of the factory bbl I'm not sure any loading ques will make any diff excepting powder charge and bullet shape/weight.
surprised me that one of the better shooting slugs I tried is the 147gr fmjbt loaded in the .308 and '06 rounds. I had to go lower end on powder charge due to lower seated slug.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
4,076 Posts
grayfox2013, it appears that you have over a 4 inch cold bore to group center with most of it being vertical. That is a bit excessive, that was with the Block Torqued to 28 inch pounds when you began? Changing torque and changing the load at the same time really won't do much to display what each change will effect. As you only get one cold bore shot it is best to determine which load you intend to use the most, and change the torque settings before the first shot is fired.

As I see it there are 2 distinct goals:
1. Find a load that gives the tightest warm group.
2. Find the best torque setting for that load.

As depicted in the cold bore Target (post # 22) I set the zero to my cold Bore Setting and then adjust as the rifle warms up. The only way I know that you can make improvements is changing ONLY ONE VARIABLE at a time.

Now for the rhetorical question: Do you think you would get more consistent results if you used a front rest and a rear bag? During load/Torque development I might recommend using such a setup to keep the results as consistent as possible. JMHO.

Don't this sound allot like WORK instead of FUN. Guess I'm a little to Driven Toward Accuracy, fun for me starts once I find the most accuracy the Rifle/Load combo functions with. It your TOY have fun with it! But that accuracy stuff takes less time if you apply the scientific process to it. JMHO.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
166 Posts
Discussion Starter · #31 · (Edited)
A/J/S/USNRet your right about all the work involved. I still enjoy going to the range but the fun is going away fast. I've been using a Caldwell bag fill with sand under the forearm & a smaller one on the back to rest the stock on. This seems to work better than any method I've tried over the years. I've been using this on every setup shooting the Mini. I've found that changing different ways of resting your gun can cause more headaches. I would like to use 31 grains of the H335 since this gave me the tightest groups but the gun was not 100% reliable at this lower load so I'm probably going with 31.5 & work on the torque settings more. I've about lost my hopes though because I've read that this a pretty common problem with the Minis. Some have it others don't & I've always been good at unlucky. I'll keep updating on the results. May have to wait for cooler weather or take some ice with me to cool the barrel.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
278 Posts
Will be taking my mini 30 to the 100 yard range this weekend. Have a four power scope and a slew of different factory loads. Look forward to seeing how she does and if there are cold bore issues. So far my mini has had every quibble in the book. I'll be happy with 2 moa but expect 5moa.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,488 Posts
For maximum accuracy you might get lucky and find a factory load your gun likes, but that job is much easier if you reload. The factory Hornady (steel case) SST grouped 3 inches for me at 100 yards. The same bullet pushed by a slightly different powder and charge grouped 7/8" in my handload. One thing I haven't tried is bedding the action into the stock. I can't remember if grayfox or Buckshot has a strut or did a trigger job, but those help as well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
278 Posts
Privi ppu soft points grouped best in my 50 yard testing. I was getting around 2-4 moa (shot 3 5rd groups)

I do plan on reloading, but will be starting on .308 first then eventually getting dies for x39. And also .223.

Reason being my ar 10 shows the most promise of being a true tack driver.

I bought the mini 30 as a fun gun and if I can dust clays every shot out to 100 yards I'm happy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,488 Posts
I hear that. My new Mini-30 will have to wait foe a new stock, strut and Tech sight as I am getting a free float handguard, adjustable gas block and heavy buffer and buffer spring for the .308 AR first
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
278 Posts
I hear that. My new Mini-30 will have to wait foe a new stock, strut and Tech sight as I am getting a free float handguard, adjustable gas block and heavy buffer and buffer spring for the .308 AR first
Sandog I'm in the same boat. I need to tame the recoil and also lighten up my dpms GII recon ar10. What .308 do you have?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,488 Posts
DMPS Oracle. So far it has a Magpul ACS stock and MOE+ grip and ambi controls as I'm a lefty. It, like the Mini's is way over gassed. So a better buffer and buffer spring than what DPMS puts on them, and an adjustable gas block.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
278 Posts
My GII is over gassed as well. I'm gonna do a buffer and spring swap first, then get an adjustable gas block and new free float rail. I'll send my upper off to ADCO to have them first turn down the heavy barrel to reduce weight, then they'll install the adj gb and ff handguard for me since I don't have the tools to do so.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
278 Posts
That's good to know Steve. It's gonna cost some coin, but that rifle will end up becoming my dedicated deer gun so it needs to be perfect.

One thing I like about the ar's over my favored wood/steel guns is hunting incliment weather. No need to worry about snow or rain with an ar.
 
21 - 40 of 41 Posts
Top