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Mini 14/ AR 15?

8288 Views 66 Replies 30 Participants Last post by  LittleBill, 
bcavin
Let me start by saying that I know that I'm about to incite a flame war, but I'm not trying to. I'm not trying to ruffle feathers, I'm looking for honest answers. Here we go:

Why is it that when someone asks about pistol grip stocks, quad rails, or other such "tacticool" items, someone always comes swooping in with the classic "stop trying to make the mini 14 into an AR 15", or some variation of that? I know that different people have different tastes, but when someone is looking for information on a product, they're not looking for an opinion about what their rifle was "intended for".

On the flip side, it's very unusual (in my experience) to see the same attitude on other forums. Mechanical limitations are one thing, but but as far as what the rifle can do, I think it rests more on the end user. When a mini owner asks about a pistol grip stock they get the above quoted line about what is and isn't. But when an AR owner asks about a new piston system, people usually (again, just from what I've seen) give them information about the piston system. It might be what they've read, what they've heard, a link they'll share or their personal take on it, but they don't say "stop trying to make the AR 15 into a mini 14".

If someone is trying to improve the functionality of their rifle to best suit their needs, why give them grief? Don't get me wrong, if you know for a fact that the product doesn't work, tell them, but that person is usually looking for advice on the product, not what they should or shouldn't do with their possessions.

Now like I said, I understand that there are those that like traditional wood, and there are those that like newer synthetic. What about those that like both? I've seen plenty of members of this forum who own multiple mini's wearing both wood, and synthetic stocks. Me, I like both.

A while back, a member of the forum came up with a mag release for the mini that could be activated with the index finger of the firing hand, so that the shooter could maintain a positive grip with his firing hand, while his non firing hand grabbed another magazine. I think it's a great idea. When he asked for input, he wasn't looking for reasons it shouldn't be on the mini, he was looking for configuration ideas, i.e. how long, how wide, etc. It improved the functionality of the rifle for people that wanted it. How can that be considered a bad thing?

It seems to me that people get it in their heads that if a mini and an AR share something, its wrong. Why? I've said before, if you don't like a particular aftermarket category, don't stink up the threads dedicated to it. I like pistol grip stocks. I do not like the ATI stock. The grip is too wide for my liking, I don't like finger grooves, and I personally find it ugly. If someone starts a thread about pistol grip stocks, and the ATI comes up, I'll throw my two cents in. I will not, however, troll a thread specifically about ATI stocks. If I didn't like pistol grip stocks in general, I wouldn't comment in the pistol grip stock threads. Any of them.

I know i used the example of pistol grip stocks a lot, but it was the most recent thing on my mind.
Like I said, I know I'm going to start a war, and there is going to be a ridiculous amount of people disagreeing with me, but I'm really just looking for an answer to this: Why the animosity to people who like to modify their mini 14's into something that shares a few similarities with AR 15's?

I await the flame war...
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Jsh1284
I have a SS Mini with wood and one 186 Ranch Rifle featuring lots of mods and the Tapco INTRAFUSE stock in OD green. I like both, in a nutshell. It just depends. I needed a tactical style rifle with a pistol grip, with less weight, a collapsible stock, a flashlight, foregrip and single point sling for my 3 gun drills and run and gun style practicing. So .. I did that instead of spending the money on another AR.

I have a wood AK. I have a wood MINI. I have a wood Stevens Savage 22 .. and even a wood MAK-90. I also have many synthetic and polymer framed guns. In the end, it just depends on what I need and when. Different situations call for different weapons!

Will never understand folks who give you hate for modifying a firearm to your required specs. I love the wood mini .. but I REALLY do like how my OD green TAPCO Mini looks as well! It just goes back to functionality, desire, and needs at any given time. With my various options, I have different ways to go.
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Crowcifier666
War is human nature.
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geigersd
Bcavin,

It's hard to understand for me as well. I like the way my mini looks in it's wood stock, but I also like the comfort and "shootability" I get when I drop it into the pistol grip stock with the telescoping buttstock. The wood one is too short for me to get comfortable shooting it at the range.

Also, iron sights are OK, but my eyes are old and the scout scope does wonders for that. The extended mag release you mentioned is on my rifle, function over form any day!

In the end, I just ignore the negative comments because beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and I can make my mini into anything I want. It's not like it is a collectible piece whose value will be ruined by having the wrong screw holding a part on, it's made to shoot. Often!
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OrenG
bcavin said:
Let me start by saying that I know that I'm about to incite a flame war, but I'm not trying to. I'm not trying to ruffle feathers, I'm looking for honest answers. Here we go:

Why is it that when someone asks about pistol grip stocks, quad rails, or other such "tacticool" items, someone always comes swooping in with the classic "stop trying to make the mini 14 into an AR 15", or some variation of that? I know that different people have different tastes, but when someone is looking for information on a product, they're not looking for an opinion about what their rifle was "intended for".
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I agree completely. Just because a mini comes in a certain stock doesn't mean it has to remain that way.

Same thing goes for those who like to slap on wooden furniture on an AR. More power to them.

bcavin said:
On the flip side, it's very unusual (in my experience) to see the same attitude on other forums. Mechanical limitations are one thing, but but as far as what the rifle can do, I think it rests more on the end user. When a mini owner asks about a pistol grip stock they get the above quoted line about what is and isn't. But when an AR owner asks about a new piston system, people usually (again, just from what I've seen) give them information about the piston system. It might be what they've read, what they've heard, a link they'll share or their personal take on it, but they don't say "stop trying to make the AR 15 into a mini 14".
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I think it's because most mini 14 owners are looking for a rifle that they can stash away in a gun case and keep for the darkest of days, or something of that nature. However they see all their colleagues with ARs who can damn near stick whatever they want on it and probably feel a little jealous. But I think it's mainly the purists who just plain dislike the new age of gun accessories.

Guns are a lot like cars in that regard, and it's rather funny because a similar attitude exists between those who say keep it stock and those who accessorize the hell out of it.

It all comes down to personal opinion like you said; But why people think they can turn it into fact and change someone else's mind? Is a mystery to me.
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N
Both the AR-15 and the Mini-14 can put a .223 / 5.56mm round into the target of your choice, provided you do your part. When the light-barreled AR-15 is compared to the standard barreled Mini-14 with flash suppressor / muzzle brake, the two have about the same accuracy, assuming they both have the same barrel twist, about the same barrel length, and are shooting the same ammo. Now, what accessories you add onto them to help you do your part is entirely up to you.
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OrenG
Nobody said:
Both the AR-15 and the Mini-14 can put a .223 / 5.56mm round into the target of your choice, provided you do your part. When the light-barreled AR-15 is compared to the standard barreled Mini-14 with flash suppressor / muzzle brake, the two have about the same accuracy, assuming they both have the same barrel twist, about the same barrel length, and are shooting the same ammo. Now, what accessories you add onto them to help you do your part is entirely up to you.
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From what I've seen, the mini needs some work done on it to shoot as good as the high dollar value ARs. However, the things you need to make the mini accurate are probably cheaper than that same top dollar AR.

However I don't want this to turn into a which is more accurate argument so I mean absolutely no ill to either party.
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N
The high-dollar ARs are match-grade target rifles with heavy, free-floated, match-grade barrels and crisp triggers. Comparing these to a Mini is an apples-to-oranges comparison. I have a DS Arms SA58 with a 4.75 lb. trigger, a 24-inch heavy, free-floated barrel, and match sights that shoots 1/2 MOA. Would you compare it to a standard-grade FAL that shoots 3 to 4 MOA and costs 1/3 as much?

By the way, for home defense, I grab the Mini because it handles faster and has all the accuracy I need (2 MOA) to hit someone at 200 yards or less.
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OrenG
Nobody said:
The high-dollar ARs are match-grade target rifles with heavy, free-floated, match-grade barrels and crisp triggers. Comparing these to a Mini is an apples-to-oranges comparison. I have a DS Arms SA58 with a 4.75 lb. trigger, a 24-inch heavy, free-floated barrel, and match sights that shoots 1/2 MOA. Would you compare it to a standard-grade FAL that shoots 3 to 4 MOA and costs 1/3 as much?

By the way, for home defense, I grab the Mini because it handles faster and has all the accuracy I need (2 MOA) to hit someone at 200 yards or less.
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What I'm comparing is the fact that for significantly less money, you can greatly improve the accuracy of the mini, compared to the amount you'd have to spend to make an AR more accurate, or to purchase a very accurate AR to begin with.

Not really talking logistics of getting them to shoot the same size groups although I wouldn't be surprised if an accuracy systems mini is still cheaper than a top dollar AR that can shoot comparable groups.

More to the point, either rifle is certainly enough to kill someone if needed which is all most mini owners are concerned about as it's either for home defense or something similar. So why people insist that one is all together better than the other is silly.
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C
......
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T
Here's the way I see it.

The older Mini's- mine included- had a well deserved lack of respect due to their lousy accuracy. There were exceptions to the rule, but by and large, they shot like shi* and Ruger didn't care.

A modern rifle is primarily judged by two things- accuracy, and reliability. These days, everyone feels a rifle needs to put three holes touching at 100 yards or it's worthless. That's why the Mini is "inferior" to the AR- in the minds of AR owners. They see all the 3-gun guys with AR's, and not Mini's...

The Mini platform has improved it's accuracy, though I still believe there's still room for improvement. Through forums like this, those of us with the older models have been able to make them decent shooters.

Old reputations die hard. I've personally met guys at the range that see and ask me about my Mini (it's customized as much as any AR) and I often hear "I used to own one, but it wouldn't shoot so I sold it".
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hawkguy
its just personal tastes...who cares?

i find it fascinating how many concepts people come up with on the mini platform....from simple & sweet to tacticool....the mini can be pretty much the type of gun the owner wants.

not many platforms can look like a simple ranch gun or a decked out military weapon. make it the way you want it & don't worry too much about what anyone else thinks.
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W
Im replying to this thread to increase my post count. The first post was way too long to read but i feel i need to reply to add to my cred as a "regular". Thank you for your patience.
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hawkguy
tobnpr said:
Here's the way I see it.

The older Mini's- mine included- had a well deserved lack of respect due to their lousy accuracy. There were exceptions to the rule, but by and large, they shot like shi* and Ruger didn't care.

A modern rifle is primarily judged by two things- accuracy, and reliability. These days, everyone feels a rifle needs to put three holes touching at 100 yards or it's worthless. That's why the Mini is "inferior" to the AR- in the minds of AR owners. They see all the 3-gun guys with AR's, and not Mini's...

The Mini platform has improved it's accuracy, though I still believe there's still room for improvement. Through forums like this, those of us with the older models have been able to make them decent shooters.

Old reputations die hard. I've personally met guys at the range that see and ask me about my Mini (it's customized as much as any AR) and I often hear "I used to own one, but it wouldn't shoot so I sold it".
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old reputations do die hard obviously. its still the same old rumors:

"mini's shoot 5-6" groups at 100 yards" or "everytime i'm at the range, an AR jams up or malfunctions"

i think both of these claims are based on past models, and don't hold true for the current ones. i think the truth now might be more like:

"mini's shoot 2-3" groups" and "AR's might jam a little more often if dirty"

but that's all i'll say aout that. i'm sure they are both good guns overall, just a little different. i won't get into a AR vs mini thread cause i hate those, just putting in my 2 cents.
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Turn-Key
Crowcifier666 said:
War is human nature.
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To put it another way, people thrive on conflict. At our base nature, it how we work out change. JMO
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CheckSix
NO! NO! NO!
ALL MINI 14's MUST BE BLUED AND HAVE TRADITIONAL WOOD STOCKS!
ANYTHING ELSE IS SACRILEGE!

Just kidding, do whatever you want.:)
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Turn-Key
bcavin said:
On the flip side, it's very unusual (in my experience) to see the same attitude on other forums. Mechanical limitations are one thing, but but as far as what the rifle can do, I think it rests more on the end user. When a mini owner asks about a pistol grip stock they get the above quoted line about what is and isn't. But when an AR owner asks about a new piston system, people usually (again, just from what I've seen) give them information about the piston system. It might be what they've read, what they've heard, a link they'll share or their personal take on it, but they don't say "stop trying to make the AR 15 into a mini 14".
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Interesting topic!

Hopefully here, it's not going to be a flame war!! That's why I came here from another site. Intelligent discourse about differing opinions. :)

(As always we have to make allowances for some)

And for the record, most of times I heard anyone talk about a piston AR upper, they got flamed, because, "if Mr. Stoner wanted a piston upper, he would have designed it that way!!"

Maybe it's because the AR platform has become the modern aged 1911 platform. Everybody and their cousin is making something for it. Read enough and you can believe it will, "walk, talk crawl on it's belly like a reptile!" It's just like any other weapon YOU own. If you want to spend the money, knock yourself out!

Personally I bought my Mini because I love my M1A, and I love Wood! I do have a BC folder for my Mini, so it goes both ways. I also changed the gas bushing, and put some different sights on it. Had the Mini design been closer to the actual M-14, I probably wouldn't have changed anything.

You mentioned the Tactical Mag latch someone developed for the Mini. I thought it was really innovative. However, I would never buy one, just like I would never buy a MagPul BAD for any of my AR's. I still thing both products were cool.

Because I'm trying to get my post count up, and just ripped a bad one in the computer room, I'll save the rest of my input for a later post. ;)

Kudos: This ones for you whofarted!
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hawkguy said:
i find it fascinating how many concepts people come up with on the mini platform....from simple & sweet to tacticool....the mini can be pretty much the type of gun the owner wants.

not many platforms can look like a simple ranch gun or a decked out military weapon. make it the way you want it & don't worry too much about what anyone else thinks.
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+1!

I with ya, hawkguy.

Heck, one of the best things about the Mini rifles is they can "modified" as much as the shooter would like...or, they can just be left as-is. ;)
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Q
I have a 580 series with a tapco T6 stock. After a strut, trigger, gas block work, and recoil buffers the mini is a better rifle than it was when I bought it.The mods were not very costly and it made a noticable diffrence. I dont have a problem with AR's. I think the mini is as accurate as a similar priced AR. My best group with handloads is 1.2''@100yrds. That was a 5 shot group. I dont think a 600 dollar AR could do much better.
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