[grumpy_old_man]

Hi everyone;

Just an idea I thought I would pass along.

The left has successfully used language to hurt the pro-freedom cause many times in the past. Today, the name most used to hurt the cause is "assault weapon"; when we use it, even in opposing their efforts, we concede ground.

Let's use our own terminology when fighting and refuse to accept theirs.

Recently I have seen MSR or "modern sporting rifle" used, but it is clumsy.

How about "Militia Rifle"? It's a handy term that doesn't sound frightening, and if the 2nd amendment protects "militias" then what better weapon for a militiaman than a "militia rifle". Bluntly, the semi auto only AR or AK is a pretty much perfect "militia rifle" IMHO.

So what do you guys think?

All the best and MERRY CHRISTMAS
Grumpy

 

[jim580]

I agree 100% that the media controls the debate with carefully crafted language and we need to choose our words carefully as well.

In DC v. Heller the Supreme Court ruled that the Second Amendment protects an individual's right to possess a firearm, unconnected to service in a militia and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home. That makes me think militia may not be the best choice, but I think 2A language should be used in any conversation about gun control.

I think security weapon is relevant and non-threatening. In the context of 2A, it's a weapon that secures our freedom from tyranny.

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed".

 

[old grump]

Dick militia act of 1903 says the militia can carry any weapon the military can carry and the militia is any male between 18 and 45. I never heard of anybody getting disarmed because he turned 46, it just meant he couldn't be called up for active military service.

 

[grumpy_old_man]

Dick militia act of 1903 says the militia can carry any weapon the military can carry and the militia is any male between 18 and 45. I never heard of anybody getting disarmed because he turned 46, it just meant he couldn't be called up for active military service.

Right, but its a harder political sell to get people to accept a select fire rifle in civvy hands. A "neutered" or "denatured" military pattern rifle will be an easier sell, and it strikes me that it would be near impossible for the Supreme Court to claim that its not appropriate for a citizen militiaman (which the National Guard is NOT).

Like the way that the pro-2A court decisions were built up, we can't go too far in one leap or we'll set our own cause back. Thing that's giving me hope now is that the anti-2A crowd are starting to talk about large scale confiscation. One anti-2A website wanted 50 million semi autos forcibly "bought back" under eminent domain. That kind of talk will lose them the battle IMHO. We do need another term for "buy back" though - the gov't never owned my guns, so how can it "buy them back"? It can steal them though, so maybe "buy back" programs can be "sell out your rights" programs?

I tried a lot of names for self loading carbines (that was one of 'em). "Light infantry carbine" is the most descriptive, but may be shooting ourselves in the foot. I personally just call 'em "militia rifles" or "self loading carbines" at work any time I hear the AW term. "Security rifle" or "defensive rifle" isn't bad, it just doesn't sound as nice to my ear FWIW.

Anyway, just some thoughts
Grumpy

 

[jim580]

When I see gun owners/proponents interacting with the media they usually get baited into answering loaded questions. The MSM will say "reasonable gun control"' and we sound like we are opposed to reasonable. When they say "gun violence" we should change the message to violence. If a firearm was designed around a 30 round magazine, it's not a "high capacity magazine", it's a standard capacity magazine.

 

[grumpy_old_man]

When I see gun owners/proponents interacting with the media they usually get baited into answering loaded questions. The MSM will say "reasonable gun control"' and we sound like we are opposed to reasonable. When they say "gun violence" we should change the message to violence. If a firearm was designed around a 30 round magazine, it's not a "high capacity magazine", it's a standard capacity magazine.

100% agreement!!

I always refer to my 30 round AR and 15 round Glock mags as standard cap. "high cap" or "extended" to me means something larger than what the weapon was designed for. And I defend those, too!

Absolutely right on the "say no to reasonable gun control" too!! We shoot ourselves in the foot when we give 'em one inch. The best way to lose the war on gun rights is to compromise, like the British gun lobby did. That was why I was so happy to see the NRA finally emerge and signal "no compromise"!

All the best,
Grumpy

 

[Mr. Snuffalupagus]

whats in a name?!

this is a very interesting thread
In my opinion Defensive Combat Rifle (DCR) has a nice ring to it.

"Militia" has some negative connotations to it for some folks, the anti gun lobby would play the "militia rifle" up as a gun for ******* secessionist crazies...
thanks to the ruby ridge and Waco fiascoes, the term militia is kind of misunderstood to anyone who isn't a patriot or a student of history.

"Defensive combat rifle"

Noun: A semiautomatic rifle of a military like pattern, possessing a detachable standard capacity magazine, pistol grip, muzzle device, and sights suitable for use from 10 to 1000 yards. chambered in a caliber suitable for defensive use.

a combat rifle, yes... but one intended to defend life and property.

 

[Mr. Snuffalupagus]

you know what I love?

the idiotic argument that since 5.56 and 7.62 rounds can penetrate soft body armor... that they are more dangerous.

I had a guy ask me why I needed a rifle that can punch through a police officers vest...
I said something to the effect at his grand dad's 30.30, or any other rifle bullet suitable for hunting deer would do the same thing quite easily. that soft armor such as the IIIA vests that most police officers wear won't keep anything but pistol bullets and buckshot out.
I went on to educate him in several other misconceptions about military patterned firearms.

what we really need is a sensible voice to combat the propaganda and half truths that our anti gun friends continue to spew.

 

[magnomark]

I have another website membership that calls them(ar's)-"semi auto sporting rifles".Works for me!<_<

 

[Mr. Snuffalupagus]

I have another website membership that calls them(ar's)-"semi auto sporting rifles".Works for me!<_<

SASR...

could be pronounced "sasser" nice...
I like it

 

[whofarted]

I dont know... sasser seems a bit swishy to me

 

[Mr. Snuffalupagus]

I dont know... sasser seems a bit swishy to me

you magnificent bastard. :lol:

like the new sig

 

[whofarted]

Im simply defending the constitution

 

[magnomark]

So who is snuffy?

 

[grumpy_old_man]

this is a very interesting thread
In my opinion Defensive Combat Rifle (DCR) has a nice ring to it.

"Militia" has some negative connotations to it for some folks, the anti gun lobby would play the "militia rifle" up as a gun for ******* secessionist crazies...
thanks to the ruby ridge and Waco fiascoes, the term militia is kind of misunderstood to anyone who isn't a patriot or a student of history.

"Defensive combat rifle"

Noun: A semiautomatic rifle of a military like pattern, possessing a detachable standard capacity magazine, pistol grip, muzzle device, and sights suitable for use from 10 to 1000 yards. chambered in a caliber suitable for defensive use.

a combat rifle, yes... but one intended to defend life and property.

Hmmm...good point on the negative connotation to militia - history is a passion with me, so the idea of a militia rifle seems pretty straightforward (and nonthreatening). But not so to mom & pop middle America and they are the ones we have to win over.

Defensive Combat Rifle is nice overall, and I do like it. Really this conversation is about 20 years late. The other side had their terminology set before the Stockton massacre and they ran with it. Left us on defense ever since 1989 with that one. We really need to get on the ball so that we can counteract their propaganda before they build any momentum.

All the best,
Grumpy

 

[grumpy_old_man]

you know what I love?

the idiotic argument that since 5.56 and 7.62 rounds can penetrate soft body armor... that they are more dangerous.

I had a guy ask me why I needed a rifle that can punch through a police officers vest...
I said something to the effect at his grand dad's 30.30, or any other rifle bullet suitable for hunting deer would do the same thing quite easily. that soft armor such as the IIIA vests that most police officers wear won't keep anything but pistol bullets and buckshot out.
I went on to educate him in several other misconceptions about military patterned firearms.

what we really need is a sensible voice to combat the propaganda and half truths that our anti gun friends continue to spew.

Hi Mr Snuffalupagus;

Yep, I've had that talk with more than a few non-gunnies. Brings back memories of fighting the AP ban as written by Metzembaum, that would have outlawed all hunting rifle ammo, since as you point out even the most anemic 30-30 load will swiss cheese a soft vest. Then there was the "plastic gun" ban that would ban most handguns because the frames had less than the specified weight of steel in them....really it wouldn't bother me half as much if they just came out and said "okay America, show of hands - how many people want to ban all guns" and let the chips fall where they will. Nope, they have to use lies, half-truths, and nonsense propaganda names that mean whatever they tell us they do to fool people.

These guys have been at it a long time and looking back I am amazed we have kept as much as we have.

All the best,
Grumpy

 

[scottybaccus]

Accept no more limitations on language than you would for weapons.

The point of the second ammendment seems lost on so many gun owners. It is not granting rights, it is protecting them. The rights it protects are not about hunting, recreation or sport shooting. It is not even about self defense. It is about being prepared for ANYTHING.

The various federal courts being called The Supreme Court have now ruled four times that the right to self defense is included in those collective rights protected by the Second Ammendment. The full nature of the Second Ammendment encompasses so much more. It is there to ensure that citizens are never outgunned by any foe that would threaten their liberty, safety or freedom. That means thugs, drug runners, car jackers, and even armies, foreign or domestic.

Think I'm preaching to the choir? Damned straight! If you want to beat the left and the media in games of words, get educated, but most of all, get in sync! A choir sings the same song and WELL! The pro-gun organizations in this country are just as fractured as the conservative party they call home. It's time we get our act together and learn to all sing the same, all encompassing song, not play silly word games that let them box us into another phrase that they can easily demonize. Sing the truth!

 

[CleanDean]

We have to start using the terminology of.... Sporting Utility Rifle, or.. Sport Utility Rifle to offset the the already, demonized description. (assault rifle)

 

[Mr. Snuffalupagus]

So who is snuffy?

That would be me...

Snuffy is short for Snuffalupagus - I'm guessing you never watched much
sesame street... big bird would call his friend Mr. Snuffalupagus "snuffy" for short.

That's Farted's way of showing he cares :lol:

I bust his balls, he tries to get me banned it's a good system.

(really, he knows I ain't gonna take offense, so I'm a good target.)

Grumpy -mom and pop in middle america ain't our problem... its the new agers in our more liberal states that think that the world will be a utopia if dangerous things are eliminated, and magically we will all want to sit down in a drum circle and sing spiritual songs...

 

[grumpy_old_man]

That would be me...

Grumpy -mom and pop in middle america ain't our problem... its the new agers in our more liberal states that think that the world will be a utopia if dangerous things are eliminated, and magically we will all want to sit down in a drum circle and sing spiritual songs...

Hi Mr Snuffalupagus;

Hope I don't sound too callous, but I had written that lot off as needing the education of victimization. Nothing like being mugged by reality to make you realize that the real world is a cold harsh place that will kill you in an instant if you let your guard down.

In my family, we have a mix of people running from the crusty old gunners like myself to the "nice" middle class who have never fired a weapon, and any time this sort of thing happens I have to embark on an education project to make sure that the non-gunnies around me know things like:
1. "assault weapons" aren't an actual classification of firearm, just a wish list of guns Feinstein & Co. want banned on their way to take 'em all.
2. >10 shot mags are very useful for self defense, particularly if you are facing a multiple assailant situation. I love my revolvers but am not so sure how well I would do with one if facing a 3 man crew bent on victimizing me. Give it my best shot, but darn I could use a Glock and a couple 15 rounders if that ever happens!
3. Registration = confiscation. Just look at the UK and Australia.
4. ALL rifles are "armor piercing" and "assault rifles" are relative wimps compared to .30-06, etc.
5. Pistol grips do not make a weapon any easier to kill with, but they do make it look distinctive which is what the gun grabbers have seized on. I can fire a klatch just fine with the pistol grip removed. Try it sometime.

If you know some way to salvage the kumbayah (sp?) singing, dope smoking hippie types, let me know. Over the years I have been pretty good at convincing the nice family types (even got a few to join the dark side and buy EBR's!)

Sorry for the runon post, but I'm on break, the family's all off on holiday while I recuperate, and there's nothing else to do except watch depressing news coverage and write letters to my congresscritters. And walk the dog, but it got a bit cold out, so heck with that.

All the best,
Grumpy