Is it possible to ream the chamber of the Mini-30 to a more powerful .308 cartridge? I Know that the magazine length and head diameter are the limiting factors so I was specifically thinking in terms of a 7.62x39 improved for possibly 200 or so more fps. Anyone ever heard of this being attempted?
Magnum Mini?
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And if I have my facts right. The reason the mini 30 in 7.62 x 39 is not the most accurate rifle is that the bbl that is used in the mini 30 was actualy set up for the XGI. Ruger shelved the XGI due to chamber pressure problems. But when the 7.62 x 39 round became popular, they pulled it back out. They save some $ on R & D and used the numbers form the 308 round for the mini 30.
Since the external barrel diameter is determined by maximum weight and internal one by the bullet caliber, what could they do differently?
Mini-14 is as inaccurate as Mini-30 even though the barrel is supposedly designed for .223 round.
Once you have a loose construction and light barrel, you lose accuracy. Even M1A or Remington 700 which is a base for bolt sniper rifles benefit enormously from after-market accurising.
Mini-30 is considered inaccurate because it is considered for hunting and people compare it with the guns shooting 1/2 MOA. Mini-30 is in the same accuracy category as AK or SKS.
Mini-14 is never considered for hunting (with original barrel) and 4" at 100 yards is good enough for a military rifle that will shoot after a mud bath.
Voruzon
Mini-14 is as inaccurate as Mini-30 even though the barrel is supposedly designed for .223 round.
Once you have a loose construction and light barrel, you lose accuracy. Even M1A or Remington 700 which is a base for bolt sniper rifles benefit enormously from after-market accurising.
Mini-30 is considered inaccurate because it is considered for hunting and people compare it with the guns shooting 1/2 MOA. Mini-30 is in the same accuracy category as AK or SKS.
Mini-14 is never considered for hunting (with original barrel) and 4" at 100 yards is good enough for a military rifle that will shoot after a mud bath.
Voruzon
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I do not know the #'s but the bbl of the XGI is, I think .308 and the 7.62 x 39 bullet is .311 or vise versa. The 2 bullets are not the same size and that's one of the big reasons for the rifle not be as good as it could. I read a good report matching up a new $400.00 mini 30 the a 3 x 9 x 40 scope and a used $89.00 Chi-com SKS with just iron sites. The SKS shot rings around the mini 30. They both where shot off the same rest at 100 yrds. The answer was that the SKS bbl was made for the x 39 round and the mini was made for the 308. At the end of the write up, the guy said if you are wanting a nice cheep deer rifle, save you $ and but the SKS.
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A little more to chew on and I'll look for more.
The 7.62 x 39 cartridge has been so related to military use, that it is rarely thought
of as a sporting cartridge. And because of it’s military ammo, it is rarely
used hunting. Now a number of AK 47s and their clones I’m sure are
used for small game and varmints....but generally it is not thought of in
that sense. Since over 50 countries now use the caliber for their military,
near a dozen manufacturing sites up to a few years ago were in
existence...and estimates that since it’s inception in
1941/42....approximately 50,000,000 AK47 type rifles have been
manufactured. The thinking of it as purely military is obvious. Too bad I
found it to be an excellent game round up to the size of deer and black
bear. Just like it’s American rimmed counterpart the 30-30.
It’s bullet size is .311 mostly...I have found some military stuff loaded
with .313 caliber, like some of the older Wolf Russian ammo that gave
good accuracy.... and some Korean stuff that was worthless. It is popular
to recommend .308 jacketed slugs for it. Yes I agree and yet not
completely. Any time you use a smaller diameter bullet then the bore it’s
fired in, the bullet has to expand on ignition and fill the rifling or it will be
inaccurate.
The 7.62 x 39 cartridge has been so related to military use, that it is rarely thought
of as a sporting cartridge. And because of it’s military ammo, it is rarely
used hunting. Now a number of AK 47s and their clones I’m sure are
used for small game and varmints....but generally it is not thought of in
that sense. Since over 50 countries now use the caliber for their military,
near a dozen manufacturing sites up to a few years ago were in
existence...and estimates that since it’s inception in
1941/42....approximately 50,000,000 AK47 type rifles have been
manufactured. The thinking of it as purely military is obvious. Too bad I
found it to be an excellent game round up to the size of deer and black
bear. Just like it’s American rimmed counterpart the 30-30.
It’s bullet size is .311 mostly...I have found some military stuff loaded
with .313 caliber, like some of the older Wolf Russian ammo that gave
good accuracy.... and some Korean stuff that was worthless. It is popular
to recommend .308 jacketed slugs for it. Yes I agree and yet not
completely. Any time you use a smaller diameter bullet then the bore it’s
fired in, the bullet has to expand on ignition and fill the rifling or it will be
inaccurate.
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Here is the chart I was looking for
http://www2.rpa.net/~bologna/dims.htm
Average Groove Diameter
.2825"
30 M1 Carbine
.308"
.308"
30-30 Winchester
.308"
.308"
30-40 Krag
.308"
.3095"
7.5 X 55 Swiss
.308"
-
300 Savage
.308"
.3075"-.309"
307 Winchester
.308"
-
308 Winchester
.308"
.308"
7.62MM NATO
.308"
-
30/06
.308"
.308"
300 H&H
.308"
.308"
308 Norma Magnum
.308"
.308"
300 Winchester Magnum
.308"
.308"
300 Weatherby Magnum
.308"
.3075"
7.62 X 39MM Russian
.311"
.310"-.311"
7.62 X 54R Russian
.308"-.310"
.308"-.312"
7.7 X 58MM Japanese
.311"
-
303 British
.311"
.308"-.317"
7.65 X 53MM Mauser
.312"-.313"
http://www2.rpa.net/~bologna/dims.htm
Average Groove Diameter
.2825"
30 M1 Carbine
.308"
.308"
30-30 Winchester
.308"
.308"
30-40 Krag
.308"
.3095"
7.5 X 55 Swiss
.308"
-
300 Savage
.308"
.3075"-.309"
307 Winchester
.308"
-
308 Winchester
.308"
.308"
7.62MM NATO
.308"
-
30/06
.308"
.308"
300 H&H
.308"
.308"
308 Norma Magnum
.308"
.308"
300 Winchester Magnum
.308"
.308"
300 Weatherby Magnum
.308"
.3075"
7.62 X 39MM Russian
.311"
.310"-.311"
7.62 X 54R Russian
.308"-.310"
.308"-.312"
7.7 X 58MM Japanese
.311"
-
303 British
.311"
.308"-.317"
7.65 X 53MM Mauser
.312"-.313"
Apparently recent Mini-30 are .311, not .308 barrel. Also, some people have better results with .311 in .308 barrel - especially once the barrel warms up.
It's very individual.
Also, SKS is a big rifle - around 10 pounds or more. It's not an assault rifle by design or any stretch of imagination. Everything else being equal it should shoot better than a 6-pound rifle with a tinfoil barrel.
miko
It's very individual.
Also, SKS is a big rifle - around 10 pounds or more. It's not an assault rifle by design or any stretch of imagination. Everything else being equal it should shoot better than a 6-pound rifle with a tinfoil barrel.
miko
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221 Posts
There is not an Ackley Improved version of the 7.62x39.
However, that is something I have been thinking of doing myself. Take some of the body taper out of the cartridge and sharpen the shoulder a bit. You could shoot factory ammo out of it with no problem. It would just fireform the brass. Then you can load the brass for a little more velocity. Just something i have been thinking about for my mini-30.
However, that is something I have been thinking of doing myself. Take some of the body taper out of the cartridge and sharpen the shoulder a bit. You could shoot factory ammo out of it with no problem. It would just fireform the brass. Then you can load the brass for a little more velocity. Just something i have been thinking about for my mini-30.
Sierra bullet makers say they have found no problem at all in shooting .311-.312 bullets thru .308" barrels & were in fact surprised that they shot as accurately as they did. I don't own a Mini-30 so I haven't kept up with the latest thing about a new bore diameter. Can anyone confirm that Ruger has actually begun installing .312" barrels on new model Min-30's? As to rechambering a factory Mini-30 barrel to a wildcat caliber goes I would approch this with a lot of caution. I would bet the farm that the reason Ruger never came out with the XG1 was because they found out the action wasn't strong enough for the 308 Winchester or 7.62 NATO round. And I would suggest that in their testing they had KaBooms because of the high chamber pressures & the large diameter bolt face. This is for harles, the reason you have the taper of the cartridge case is for ease of extraction something very improtant for a semi auto weapon but of no concern to a guy shooting a bolt action rifle unless he's hunting dangerous game. You'll find no military weapons chambered for Ackley Improved cartridges for this reason. I would caution anyone who reloads for the Mini to be very careful about how hot they are loading their rounds be well versed on how to read the signs of too hot a load. Remember that the most accurate rounds are usually found below maximum load.
Just my 2¢
Bushwack
Just my 2¢
Bushwack
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221 Posts
Hey Geno, isnt the 300 whisper a subsonic round? If I am mistaken, could you point me in the right direction to find some info on it?
Buswack, I am aware of the reason for the body taper, but have you looked at the 7.62x39? The taper on that is a bit extreme. I don't mean eliminate it, just take some of it out to give it a taper similar to the .223. With a sharper shoulder, one should be able to increase the case capacity enough to make a difference without compromising extraction, and without eliminating the ability to fire factory amunition.
Buswack, I am aware of the reason for the body taper, but have you looked at the 7.62x39? The taper on that is a bit extreme. I don't mean eliminate it, just take some of it out to give it a taper similar to the .223. With a sharper shoulder, one should be able to increase the case capacity enough to make a difference without compromising extraction, and without eliminating the ability to fire factory amunition.
harles:
Check out www.quarterbore.com for info on the 300 Whisper. It was developed for silenced guns but can be loaded with light bullets for higher velocity. It can be chambered in rifles with exsisting 223 barrels.
Another thought is to use Cor-Bon ammo in 7.62x39. It is hotter than standard ammo.
Check out www.quarterbore.com for info on the 300 Whisper. It was developed for silenced guns but can be loaded with light bullets for higher velocity. It can be chambered in rifles with exsisting 223 barrels.
Another thought is to use Cor-Bon ammo in 7.62x39. It is hotter than standard ammo.
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221 Posts
Cheers Geno!
I love this place! Everyone is so helpful!
Ok.... 300 Whisper is 221 firball necked up to .308. Sounds effective. 2400fps with a 125gr bullet puts it at exactly what the standard 7.62x39 does anyway. (if you go with hodgdons data http://www.hodgdon.com/data/rifle/76239mmr.php )
I shall have to keep searching.....
I love this place! Everyone is so helpful!
Ok.... 300 Whisper is 221 firball necked up to .308. Sounds effective. 2400fps with a 125gr bullet puts it at exactly what the standard 7.62x39 does anyway. (if you go with hodgdons data http://www.hodgdon.com/data/rifle/76239mmr.php )
I shall have to keep searching.....
harles---Yes that old AK47 round is built to do what the rifle does best. Use it abuse it & it'll still function. The Soviets had to design a rifle that could be used by conscripts that had about the same weapons knowedge as my Granny (Rest her soul). Now the only reason I can see to modify the case would be to hold more powder. As I said earlier I don't believe the Mini is designed to hold the force exerted against the bolt with high pressure rounds with the bolt face diameter of the 7.62X39 round. If you are determined to boost the proformance of the 7.62X39 round a level close to the 7.62 NATO round I can't stop you but I would certainly caution you. If Bill Ruger thought he could make the Mini into a high proformance .30 caliber with the design he already had believe me he would've done it. I mean just one look at the bolts locking design makes me cringe at the thought.
Good luck & be careful
Bushwack
Good luck & be careful
Bushwack
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221 Posts
I shall be quite carefull. Not looking for anything near what .308 can do. Just a little boost to get it a bit closer to the 30-30 winchester (about 200fps, not 700fps). If it can handle pressure test rounds at about 75000 CUP (my local gunsmith tested it with them), it should be able to do this.
One of the most accurate cartridges ever designed is the 6ppc... Shoots under 1/2 MOA !!! The same bolt on a mini-30 (parent cartridge 7.62x39mm) shoots a 6mm 70 grain bullet at 3000 fps. Brass is necked up from a 220 Russian but you can make 6ppc from 7.62x39mm too... It just takes more steps... 6ppc has won more bencrest competitions than all other cartridges... chamber pressures for 7.62x39mm and 6ppc are about the same no safety problems !!! AB
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