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Alright guys, I think I have decided to keep the Mini-14 for light weight close range pop-shots. I may convert my standard M1A to a scout version and save my nickles and dimes for an M1A match grade for long distance, accuracy and fire power.

I agree with you guys about the 223 being low recoil etc.,
however I still think that the 308 is the best all around round for 2 legged predators, 4 legged predators, vehicles, trees, materials etc. and just about anything that moves.

:ar15:
 

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30-06 if you only want 8 shots.If I shot you in one shoulder with a 308 and a 30-06 in the other at 1000 yards,you wouldn't know which was which.:sniper:
 

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".....If I shot you in one shoulder with a 308 and a 30-06 in the other at 1000 yards,you wouldn't know which was which."

an elk would know the difference. the two rounds are not the same.
 

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Originally posted by Adam Culpepper
".....If I shot you in one shoulder with a 308 and a 30-06 in the other at 1000 yards,you wouldn't know which was which."

an elk would know the difference. the two rounds are not the same.
Too true. The rounds are not the same. I can get better velicity on a .308 with 150 gr. bullet. Check your load tables. Doesn't sound right, but it is. Oh yea, .308 is shorter too. Even I figgured that one out.
 

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Paul, I had to check this one out. The .308, and 30-06 can both be loaded to shoot the same 30 cal .308" dia bullet. So the fastest load will hit harder at 100 yds.
In checking my Sierra, Nosler, Hornady, and Lyman manuals, Generally speaking the 30-06 can be loaded to a higher velocity. The case holds more powder. However I did find an anomaly, loading the 30-06 with 52 gr. of IMR 4064 produces a muzzle velocity of 2908 fps. While loading the 308 winchester with 48 gr of IMR 4064 produces velocity of 2920 fps. I really have to watch those load tables, there are many errors, and each cal. You have to watch the barrel length, it makes a 150 -200 fps per inch difference. Even same barrel lengths will vary the velocity, and pressure from barrel to barrel. Therefore I use those tables as a guide, but I use my chrony for the real thing.
 

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There is no comparison between 5.56 and 7.62(.308) for killing power, none don’t go there.
My understanding on the birth of the 7.62 is that the Army decided that new powder technology would allow them to produce a .30 cal round with the same general characteristics as the 06 but smaller. Now that doesn’t mean you cannot use the new (after 1950 or so) powder to get even more performance out of the 30-06. It just means you won’t be able to get it at wall mart because of liability for those folk shooting old rifles. Kind of like the .44 special can be loaded close to .44 mag velocities but not in factory loads (same applies to .38 special/.357 Mag). So 7.62 was intended to replicate the 06 in a smaller package.

By the way initial feedback from Afghanistan is that the 5.56 ain’t enough.
:usa: Jeff
 

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i personally feel that 5.56 is a terrible round for a medium to full sized human. five foot tall, 100 lb Vietnamese are one thing. six foot tall aryan, black, or nordic peoples are another. most Vietnam vets have horror stories about .223 not knocking down people you or i could snap the neck of with our bare hands. the round has it strengths, but its weaknesses are obvious, and only AR-15 nuts seem unable to comprehend them.

5.56 will kill a man, of course. but .308 will strike him down more efficiently, and more safely. if i knew i stood even a 5 percent chance of needing my firearm for use against humans, i would not consider the weight issue a concern. i would wear the heavier ammo and carry the weight without complaint. comfort is secondary to survival, methinks. id rather stack the odds in my favor.

but back to the issue at hand. 30.06 has a wider variety of loads, and more FPS per grain than 308, especially under 200 yards. not to mention the fact that larger bullets of higher weights can be used more efficiently thanks to case size. most written records of .308 rounds packing more fps with similar loadings are just typos or factual discrepancies. also, the sun does not rise and set on 150 grain bullets. my 300 Ultra Mag fires the exact same .30 caliber bullet, and i would be hard pressed to consider any other gun that fires a 30 cal bullet its equal in velocity. a bullet is a bullet. a round however, varies greatly from chambering to chambering, and is sometimes more than the sum of its parts.

p.s. i also doubt the validity of those ".308 is more accurate than .30-06" arguments. ive yet to see an even playing feild for the two in any comparison. ill give the slight nudge to .308 due to the case design, but i wouldnt expect more than an inch difference at 600 yds with a fair comparison.
 

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06 is definatly more versital. You just have more volume to play with. 150 gr bullet may not be the best for all aplications, but covers a lot of them. Some of the .308 loads require stuffing. This is when the powder has to be compressed into the case. I never liked doing that. I just doesn't feel right.
 

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I didn't say they were the same.The 308 gets better velocity with less powder because its more efficient.Something to think about during hard times.:sniper:
 

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I have personally shot wild boar with 30-06 and 308 neither boar got up, however the 30-06 spun the boar and it was dead right there. DRT as one of you guys out there calls it. the 308 boar had to be persuaded. After hitting a boar with a 7.62x39 -3 times in the body and one in the leg, it still wasn't dead I dont think I will be boar hunting with my mini 14 soon. To me its no different than a 45 vs. a 9mm. Gimme a 1911 any day.
 

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Now we're on the subject of .308 .vs .30-06.

Why the heck do snipers prefer .308? There has to be something there! And why did the Germans mass-produce the 8mmx57 Mauser in WWII?

No doubt, the .30 cal takes out a man with one shot, no matter where he's hit, no matter how far away. The force of that slug is bad no matter what the velocity. 7.62x39 is a testament to that.

I think the .223 round wins in the long-range contest for rapid-fire. Any experienced opinions on this?

KC
 

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There are better semi auto rifles made for the 308 cartridge, gallil CETME, Daewoo, FN/FAL, my fave the M1A...........ect. Thats why the snipers prefer it. Shorter action means better reaction time, more efficient powder usage, all have merit. The number one caliber for hunting is 30 cal. do you want the animal to suffer or die? the # 1 selling reloading die 30-06, followed by 223. 308 is number 12. I would still use a 308 in a kill situation before a 223. But I am talking balistics and not survival. All that said I will take my dads 03A3 in 30-06 and hit anything in North America ........... once.:usa:
 

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The 10mm does at 200 yards what the 45 does at the muzzel.
The 308 is a more accurate cartridge than the 30.06.:sniper:
 

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I am not a sniper, but I shoot sometimes with a (swat) sniper with the sherrifs dept. He uses a bolt action. Most everything I've read on snipers, shoot a bolt action most in .308, because a bolt action is more accurate, and has a longer barrel for more energy at longer range. I would use a bolt action. Now another thought, what does a ANTI SNIPER use against a sniper. 300 mag? 50 cal BMG?
 

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I think the reason snipers use .308 is that
1) It all starts in the military
2) Military snipers sure aint gonna use the .223
3) 308 is the only viable alternative the military has (still available in great quanties.)
4) Most other snipers are either ex-military or follow the military model
5) Data on the 308 is extensive, and sniping is all about knowing trajectory and wind drift at a given situation. Everybody knows it, easier to train with one industry standard.

Bolt action is used:
1) Way more reliable
2) Way more consistant
than a semi auto.
:usa:
 
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