[skinnygun]

I have a Para SKS is it legal to have it take 30rd mags and do any of them really work?

 

[gunrun45]

Depends on what state you live in and wether the mag is US made or import. Either way be ready to play the 10 parts game with the 922r laws. You see them for sale in lots of places, that doesn't make it legal. If you do opt to use one make sure it is a US made metal one. USA made decent ones. You sometimes have to tinker with whatever 30 rounder it is to get it to work.
I just use the stock 10 rounder and stripper clips

 

[Zen900]

Depends on what state you live in and wether the mag is US made or import. Either way be ready to play the 10 parts game with the 922r laws.

I was next to a kid Saturday at the range who had a SKS he had tricked out. I was sure it wouldn't pass the 922 test but who am I to tell this guy? Some people get touchy. I was torn between telling him or just assuming no LEOs would never check.

However, I have a Reddot scope I want to put on my SKS but it's made in China. Man! It's almost impossible to buy anything made in the USA. The 922r law confuses the heck outta me.

 

[Drakejake]

The general rule is that if the rifle came to the U.S. with the ten round internal mag, it must stay. Using a detachable mag or, for example, a 20 round internal mag would be a violation unless you Americanized the rifle by replacing the right parts. On the other hand, I doubt if the ATF is concerned with this widely violated prohibition. The duckbill mags have a reputation for working poorly, but the ones made by USA are considered to be the best. The only SKS models which were built to take hi-cap detachable mags are the Chinese D and M models, which take standard AK mags legally. I have an M model.

Drakejake

 

[BlenderWizard]

Using a detachable mag or, for example, a 20 round internal mag would be a violation unless you Americanized the rifle by replacing the right parts.

No, round count doesn't matter anymore since the AWB sunset, and if you're using one of those 20 round fixed mags, the AWB never applied to those, anyway. Exchanging one fixed mag for another has no effect on the 922r laws.

 

[Drakejake]

Blenderwizard, I am sure you are wrong, at least by implication. There are several federal firearms laws. At least one of them prohibits replacing the original 10 round internal mag on the SKS because doing so turns it into a dreaded assault rifle. See Survivor's SKS Forum for details. To get around this prohibition, you have to replace certain foreign-made parts with American-made ones, which is not really practical with this inexpensive firearm. Better to buy an AK and be done with it.

Drakejake

 

[BlenderWizard]

Blenderwizard, I am sure you are wrong, at least by implication. There are several federal firearms laws. At least one of them prohibits replacing the original 10 round internal mag on the SKS because doing so turns it into a dreaded assault rifle. See Survivor's SKS Forum for details. To get around this prohibition, you have to replace certain foreign-made parts with American-made ones, which is not really practical with this inexpensive firearm. Better to buy an AK and be done with it.

Drakejake

But in order to be an assault rifle it must have a detachable mag. The 20 round fixed mags apply to this

 

[Drakejake]

From Survivor's SKS FAQ:

"Is a 20-round fixed magazine prohibited?
It has always been assumed that any size fixed magazine was acceptable to ATF. However, ATF has recently taken to saying that "SKS rifles capable of accepting 'large capacity ammunition feeding devices' are prohibited from importation." Therefore, modifying an SKS to use fixed high-capacity magazine is currently also a violation of 922(r).
For more information, check out the discussion on the legality of fixed high-capacity magazines on the Survivor's SKS Boards web site.
Warning: It is unclear exactly when these restrictions on High-capacity Fixed magazines came into effect. This FAQ will assume that since 1998 it is a 922(r) violation to modify an imported SKS Carbine to use one."

Drakejake

 

[BlenderWizard]

From Survivor's SKS FAQ:

"Is a 20-round fixed magazine prohibited?
It has always been assumed that any size fixed magazine was acceptable to ATF. However, ATF has recently taken to saying that "SKS rifles capable of accepting 'large capacity ammunition feeding devices' are prohibited from importation." Therefore, modifying an SKS to use fixed high-capacity magazine is currently also a violation of 922(r).
For more information, check out the discussion on the legality of fixed high-capacity magazines on the Survivor's SKS Boards web site.
Warning: It is unclear exactly when these restrictions on High-capacity Fixed magazines came into effect. This FAQ will assume that since 1998 it is a 922(r) violation to modify an imported SKS Carbine to use one."

Drakejake

Alright, last post on that page be LESchwartz on your link to that site says:

You should also be aware that the GCA, per 18 U.S.C. Section 922(v), prohibits the manufacture, transfer, and possession of SAWs as that term is defined in the above-noted Section 921(a)(30).

However, Section 922 (v)(2) excludes SAWs that were lawfully possessed under Federal law as of September 13, 1994. Therefore, any weapon that was configured as a SAW after September 13, 1994, or any SAW that was imported after date is prohibited, regardless of its original date of manufacture.

With respect to classifications, an SKS rifle with a fixed magazine is not a SAW; however, an SKS with a detachable magazine and two or more of the following features is a SAW is defined in 921(a)(30)(B):

(i) a folding or telescoping stock;
(ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action, of the weapon;
(iii) a bayonet mount;
(iv) a flash suppressor or a threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor; and
(v) a grenade launcher.

LESchwartz wrote Survivor's FAQ, the ATF wrote LESchwartz that letter. Which one is gonna arrest you?

 

[Drakejake]

So you are conceding that replacing the original 10 round internal SKS magazine with an internal 20 round mag is apparently illegal under federal law as currently interpreted by ATF? That is good enough for me. The original question in this thread was whether it was legal to go beyond 10 rounds with an SKS. For the present I will not argue with you on whether installing a 20 round internal mag would transform the SKS into an "assault rifle" under federal law.

Drakejake

 

[BlenderWizard]

So you are conceding that replacing the original 10 round internal SKS magazine with an internal 20 round mag is apparently illegal under federal law as currently interpreted by ATF? That is good enough for me. The original question in this thread was whether it was legal to go beyond 10 rounds with an SKS. For the present I will not argue with you on whether installing a 20 round internal mag would transform the SKS into an "assault rifle" under federal law.

Drakejake

No, according to the letter LESchwartz put up from the atf, "an SKS rifle with a fixed magazine is not a SAW." Fixed magazine, no capacity specified. An SKS with a fixed mag is legal.

 

[Drakejake]

Topic for discussion:

Is it legal under interpretations of federal gun laws to replace the 10 round internal magazine of the SKS with a 20 round internal magazine?

Hypotheses to be investigated:

The importation of rifles with "large capacity ammunition feeding device(s)" was banned in the U.S. in 1994. A magazine-detachable or non-detachable--holding more than 10 rounds is such a forbidden device. An imported rifle may not be modified in such a way that it could not have been legally imported in the first place. Ergo, adding a 20 round internal mag to the SKS is illegal.

Drakejake

 

[BlenderWizard]

Topic for discussion:

Is it legal under interpretations of federal gun laws to replace the 10 round internal magazine of the SKS with a 20 round internal magazine?

Hypotheses to be investigated:

The importation of rifles with "large capacity ammunition feeding device(s)" was banned in the U.S. in 1994. A magazine-detachable or non-detachable--holding more than 10 rounds is such a forbidden device. An imported rifle may not be modified in such a way that it could not have been legally imported in the first place. Ergo, adding a 20 round internal mag to the SKS is illegal.

Drakejake

And the 1994 AWB expired last year

 

[Drakejake]

I think that at least some rules relating to imported rifles are not affected by AWB expiration. For example, you cannot legally import AK's, FALs, Cetmes, etc., unless the receiver is replaced. You cannot legally use detachable mags with SKS rifles imported with 10 round internal mags, etc. There are several laws and regulations involved in this, right? If the expiration of the AWB ended all regulation of imported rifles, the market in firearms would be far different than it is.

Drakejake

 

[BlenderWizard]

I think that at least some rules relating to imported rifles are not affected by AWB expiration. For example, you cannot legally import AK's, FALs, Cetmes, etc., unless the receiver is replaced. You cannot legally use detachable mags with SKS rifles imported with 10 round internal mags, etc. There are several laws and regulations involved in this, right? If the expiration of the AWB ended all regulation of imported rifles, the market in firearms would be far different than it is.

Drakejake

Right, but the last thing you referred to was the 1994 ban. You talk in circles; I am done with this.

 

[Drakejake]

My statements were hypothetical; I was offering talking points, not making claims. OK, change 1994 to 1989. Happy?

From the SKS FAQ:

"Just what happened on July 6, 1989?
For the full story you have to go to the 2005 Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide. However, on that date the Secretary of the Treasury used the authority delegated to him by Congress under Title 18 USC § 925(d)(3) to restricted the import of "non-sporting" firearms.
Just what features would restrict an SKS Carbine from import since 1989 is not clear. However, the ATF web site contains a link to the 1998 Study Determination, list of eight military features that could cause a semiautomatic rifle to be classified as "non-sporting" (prohibited from importation in ATF terms):
1. Ability to accept a large capacity magazine [see explanation of "detachable large capacity magazines"]
2. Folding/telescoping stocks
3. Separate pistol grips [see explanation of pistol grips and thumbhole stocks]
4. Ability to accept a bayonet (bayonet mount) [see explanation of bayonets.]
5. Flash suppressors
6. Bipods [see explanation of bipods]
7. Grenade launchers
8. Night sights
This is not to say that a particular rifle having one or more of the listed features should necessarily be classified as "non-sporting". Indeed, many traditional sporting firearms are semiautomatic or have detachable magazines. Thus, ATF has stated that these criteria must be viewed in total to determine whether the overall configuration places the rifle fairly within the semiautomatic assault rifle category.
Because this "restricted feature" list is not found in either law or regulation, the features that could restrict an SKS Carbine from import are not fixed. ATF could decide to allow certain features on particular configuration, while prohibiting them on others. The only way to know if a particular configuration is legal for importation is to ask. Don't be shy! ATF has said that they will provide a "determination" to anyone who requests one. If there is any doubt, you should write ATF.
For additional information you can study the Full text of the ATF's 1989 Report or the full text of the ATF's 1998 report.
Remember that Title 18 USC § 922(r) made it illegal to build any firearm prohibited from importation under Title 18 USC § 925(d)(3). This includes modifying your imported SKS Carbine to be "identical" to one that is prohibited."

Drakejake

 

[DaveyDug]

Am I the only one who's bothered by the fact that we have to argue about stupid, ridiculous nitpicky stuff like this? Isn't it sad that our gun laws have gotten to the point that nobody can understand them? And we live in a "free" country. Free as long as you don't slip up and misunderstand one of the ATF's asinine laws, that is. Makes me want to puke.

 

[Zen900]

With respect to classifications, an SKS rifle with a fixed magazine is not a SAW; however, an SKS with a detachable magazine and two or more of the following features is a SAW is defined in 921(a)(30)(B):

(i) a folding or telescoping stock;
(ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action, of the weapon;
(iii) a bayonet mount;
(iv) a flash suppressor or a threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor; and
(v) a grenade launcher

A Yugo M59/66A1 with the detach mag is a saw

 

[nzmini]

Not living in the US, I cannot comment in any way on the legal part of the question. However as to the second part, I have a detatchable mag Norinco sks, the one I think you guys call the para model. Over here it's commonly called (incorrectly) an SKK. In my experience they work perfectly with a 30 rnd mag. (though I have only seen norinco and russian mags here, no yugos or anything else) Never seen a malfunction, never seen a mis fire. Just as acurate and reliable as any AK or clone and miles cheaper. If it's legal to do where you are, it's pretty sweet.

 

[mitch308]

SKS Hgh Cap Mags

I own anRussin SKS 1950's vintage. Have replaced the 10 rounder with the non detatchable 20 rounder. Function is flawless, no trouble with LE types @ my range. Go for it. (of course I reside in Texas where a few freedoms remain intact.)