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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Is it legal to install a Muzzle Break or flash suppressor on a new Mini-14-30?
 

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Muzzle brake legal, though most can`t tell the difference between the two......go figure, as I have never seen a flash-hider, hide any flash. The big mistake was to refer to them as "Flash-Suppressors" BATF locked in on suppressor and now they are.........well, you know the rest. Regards LTS
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks Likesto shoot I think its all just a muzzle break.Thanks for sharing info with me.


Good Shooting
 

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Rugster! Here is an excerpt from the 1994 BAN:

Rifles:
Any semiautomatic rifle made after 9/13/94, which can accept a detachable magazine and which has two or more of the following characteristics is a banned AW:
Folding or telescoping stock,
Pistol grip which protrudes conspicuously below the action of the gun,
Bayonet mount,
Flash suppressor or a threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor,sh suppressor,
Grenade launcher.
I have seen AR-15 clones advertised which, although they aren't fitted with a flash hider, do have a muzzlebreak on the end of the barrel. If this is threaded on the gun would appear to posses the threaded-barrel feature, even if there's no flash suppressor on the gun. For this to be legal, the muzzlebrake must be permanently attached, e.g., with silver solder. Be careful!


So muzzle brake or breaks are O.K. However, flash suppressors are not.
Besides how much night firing will one do?
Hope this helps!
 

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You can have a flash hider as long as you dont have any other of the things that woodbadge listed. It is an assault weapon if it has two of those features.
 

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Muzzle brakes, have holes and or slots, on the top, and sides. None on the bottom.
Flash hiders have slots all the way around.
 

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"You can have a flash hider as long as you dont have any other of the things that woodbadge listed. It is an assault weapon if it has two of those features."


I believe you are mistaken on this Grinch. If a rifle had one (preban) then yes.....if not, your out. They have been reclassified as "suppressor" and it doesn`t matter "what features " your rifle may or may not have. Muzzle brake only. LTS
 

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Any semiautomatic rifle made after 9/13/94, which can accept a detachable magazine and which has two or more of the following characteristics is a banned AW:
It says right there that it is talking about rifles made after 9/13/94, not preban rifles. We have discussed the AW ban many times here and I'm pretty sure on this one. Bill (the administrator) really knows his stuff so maybe he will post on this. Also Springfield Armory still sells the M1A with the big ol' flash hider on it so I don't see why it would it would be illegal on a mini. Just my two cents.

-Grinch
 

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Rugster, you also have to clear your own states laws, besides the Fed laws.
 

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Very true Grinch......lets count.....shall we.

(1) Detachable magazine
(2) Threaded barrel
(3) Flash-hider

Add that to the fact that a suppler just got busted, last year, for selling "Flash-Hiders" ......and I believe the company was CTD.....there was a major recall AND trouble...if memory serves me. These were slip on, they were later readvertised as "Muzzle Brakes" then sold legally. So the threads me little. What did the hider/brake fit......SKS.

LTS
 

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978.20 (B) Flash Suppressor
This term was originally defined as "any device that reduces or conceals the visible light or flash created when a firearm is fired. This definition includes flash hiders, but does not include compensators and muzzle brakes (devices attached to or integral with the muzzle barrel to utilize propelling gasses for counter-recoil)." There were two primary problems with the definition when it was originally noticed to the public (December 31, 1999 through February 28, 2000). The most significant problem with the original definition was that it included and/or excluded particular devices by name (flash hider, muzzle brake, compensator) without consideration of whether the devices actually suppress flash. After further consideration prompted by public comments, the Department concluded that the absence of statutorily defined specific measurement standards or a statutory requirement to establish those standards demonstrates a legislative intent to identify any device that reduces or redirects flash from the shooter's field of vision as a flash suppressor regardless of its name and intended/additional purpose. Thus, "flash hiders" are flash suppressors only if they reduce or redirect flash from the shooter's field of vision. Conversely, "compensators" and "muzzle brakes" are not flash suppressors only if they do not reduce or redirect flash from the shooter's field of vision. The revised definition is clearly consistent with the legislative intent of the statute as it neither includes nor excludes any particular device on the basis of its name only. Additionally, "conceals" in the original definition presented the possibility of an overly broad interpretation which could have included any device positioned between the shooter's eye and the muzzle flash, such as the sights on a gun. To avoid such unintended interpretation, the word "conceals" was replaced with "redirects." Accordingly, the original definition was changed to: "flash suppressor means any device that reduces or redirects muzzle flash from the shooter's field of vision." This revised definition was noticed to the public during the first 15-day comment period (May 10 through May 30, 2000). Comments addressing this version of the definition prompted further reconsideration and revision. As such, the definition was revised a second time by replacing " . . . that reduces or redirects muzzle flash . . . " with " . . . designed, intended, or that functions to reduce or redirect muzzle flash . . . " This change was necessary because it became clear that flash suppressors are typically attached by twisting or screwing the device onto the threaded barrel of a firearm. Therefore, by simply making a half turn (180 degrees), an otherwise fully operational flash suppressor would not function as prescribed in the prior definition. The revised definition eliminates this potential loophole. Accordingly, this final revision "flash suppressor means any device designed, intended, or that functions to reduce or redirect muzzle flash from the shooter's field of vision," was noticed during the second 15-day comment period (July 12 through July 31, 2000). Although additional comments were received, no comments were received during the second 15-day comment period that resulted in substantial revision to the definition. However, the Department made a non-substantial revision by adding "perceptibly" to the phrase "reduce or redirect" to confirm that if a reduction or redirection of flash is so minuscule that it is imperceptible to the human eye, it could not reasonably be considered a reduction.
 

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In regards to Springfield Armory M1a:

Penal Code 12276.1 focuses on "flash suppressor," a term that has an established technical meaning based on the parts intended use and design. But CCR Title 11, Penal Code 12.8.978.20(B) improperly expands the meaning of "flash suppressor" to include two completely different devices (muzzle brakes and compensators) if they have an incidental, unintended effect of reducing flash, or just redirecting it. But the only way of determining whether a muzzle brake or compensator has any such effect is actual range testing under specific conditions. Such testing is something, which ordinary owners are in no position to do. Indeed, experts inform me that even law enforcement laboratories are unable to do the testing because the DOJ definition fails to specify the standards required.

The confusion surrounding the meaning of "flash suppressor" is illustrated by the DOJ's own letter rulings which approve both the Springfield Armory "Muzzle Break" and the Browning BOSS system as being legal under SB 23. This approval (which preceded the AG-DOJ regulation) violates the regulation because, as the manufacturers themselves concede, both of these devices redirect flash from the shooter's field of vision. This brings these under the DOJ regulation which condemns any devices that does just that. DOJ indicates that these devices were approved by DOJ because the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco & Firearms (ATF) approved them under the federal "assault weapon" law. But ATF uses an entirely different
standard in evaluating these devices and that standard does not conform to the DOJ regulation definition of flash suppressor.

This places me and other prosecutors in a position of hopeless confusion. We are supposed to follow the regulation which, having been promulgated under the APA, has the force of law. But we are also supposed to be under the direct supervision of AG (Cal. Constitution, Art. V, Penal Code 12) and to follow DOJ's direction as to the AWCA which it administers. If we deem the Springfield Armory "Muzzle Break" and the Browning BOSS system to be flash suppressors, then we will be contradicting DOJ's letter rulings specifically finding that these devices are not flash suppressors.

This quandary is complicated by the fact that numerous other muzzle brakes redirect flash exactly as do the Springfield Armory muzzle brakes and Browning BOSS system. If in enforcing section 12276.1 we deem these other muzzle brakes not to be flash suppressors, we will be acting inconsistently with the AG-DOJ regulation definition, which has the force of law. But to treat these other muzzle brakes as flash suppressors would contradict DOJ's determination that the indistinguishably operating Springfield armory muzzle brake and Browning BOSS system are not flash suppressors under section 12276.1.

CONCLUSION

These illustrations should serve to make my point and demonstrate why I am particularly concerned in this matter. To do justice (as we are all compelled to do under the Government Code) I must know when I can or should prosecute and when I cannot or should not. And I do not want my deputies to be faced by a criminal defense lawyer asserting that even if my prosecution is based on a correct reading of SB 23, his client relied on an DOJ-issued letter and so is entitled by due process not to be prosecuted.

I again urge you to have your experts scrutinize these claims by reviewing the Complaint and Points and Authorities posted on the Internet. Once satisfied, I encourage you
 

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I dont know where you got the idea that flash hiders cant be sold.
Please check out this link:
http://www.gunaccessories.com/Mini1430/index.asp
It reads next to the Eagle mini 14 flash hider:
This outstanding Flashider replaces the front sight of your Mini-14 or Mini-30 rifle. The Eagle flashider comes with an H&K Style front sight and comes complete with all hardware and installation instructions. The Eagle Flashider is legal to install on all pre-ban rifles and post ban rifles that do not have a pistol grip stock. Available in both blue or stainless to match your rifle.

These sites all sell flash hiders:
http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/
http://www.cabelas.com
http://www.e-gunparts.com/
http://www.brownells.com/
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/
 

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It`s just too easy to spin mini14 owners, cause of the "wannabe syndrom" and for your information.....Bushmaster sells both and explains it is "ILLEGAL" to install a flash-hider on any post ban AR15......as I`m sure you are aware of. I never said it was illegal to sell them, just related a story of "one" company that got caught in this never ending tumoil. You`ll also notice the qualifier on the other ads. It may say flash-hider.....because some will pay more for that name, than the results. heheheheh


LTS
 

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Please read the FAQ at http://www.perfectunion.com/forums/showthr...=&threadid=1254 :

(B) A semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least 2 of --

(1) A folding or telescoping stock,
(2) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon,
(3) A bayonet mount,
(4) A flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor, and
(5) A grenade launcher;

State and local laws excluded (we're only talking Feds here), your Mini-14 CAN HAVE a Flash Suppressor IF it doesn't have any of the others (#1, #2, #3, #5).

Fed law says "detachable mag plus 2 evil features makes it an AW". Calif law says "detachable mag plus 1 evil feature makes it an AW" and their list is a bit different.

The law states flash suppressor OR threaded barrel. It doesn't count as two.

Hope that helps.
 

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"(4) "A "flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate "a" flash suppressor, and"


Bill, I dissagree.....what else is new, right??? hehehehe


"A" is the qualifier and "or" is the seperater. If your rifle has a threaded muzzle, that counts as "one" this is easily seen as Norinco`s and Poly-Tech`s came with flash-hiders...(aside from the import ban) these were removed and a tack welded muzzle nut was added. The threaded barrel counts as one by itself, the ability to accept a "flash suppressor" or "Sonic suppressor". Another rifle that fits is the Romanian SAR AK47......even though
it is American built, the early issues had the end of the barrels turned down, as the were originally threaded. This rifle only contains two features....pistol grip and detachable feeding device. Lets whip it......LTS
 

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The reason the AK's and others had their barrels turned down (I saw a bunch of FALs like this as well) is that they had pistol grips. A pistol grip plus a threaded barrel makes an AW.

If you look at the ~intent~ of the law, they want a threaded barrel to count just as bad as a flash suppressor, because you COULD easily replace a muzzle brake with a suppressor.

Interestingly, CA doesn't care about the threaded barrel, only about the flashhider. But then again, CA allows one less "evil feature", so that means ZERO evil features.

Ugh.

:confused:
 

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What does this mean for Califonians? I have one on now, with my factory stock and five rd mags.. Am I gonna get thrown in the clink?
 

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If it has a real flash hider on it (a Mini-14 with its detachable mag, that is), it is considered an assault weapon in California.

If you don't have it registered, you can get in trouble. You can't register it late, so you choices are to hide underground, or to fix it.

Reminder: This is a pubilc forum, viewable by all, including state law enforcement.
 
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