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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
From this page, which rifle and why?

AR15-M16 Rifles-D S Arms

Please, lets keep the cost at around $1,000 or less.

The rifles I am looking at are the:

DSZM4CV1R
DSZM4CV1RCL

I would like something with a flattop.

My other options are a S&W M&P, or maybe even a Spikes.

If you know of another good quality AR-15 for less then $1,000 please post it.
 

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What are you planning to use it fir? Target, hunting, type of hunting? Between those two, the 1R has 1:9 twist which limits you to probably 62gr bullets or less.
The 1RL has 1;7 which will let you shoot heavier rounds and is chrome lined which supposedly makes it easier to clean and lasts longer.

This is probably as good a deal as any: http://www.impactguns.com/colt-carbine-a3-16in-mt6731-mt6731.aspx
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
What are you planning to use it fir? Target, hunting, type of hunting?
Mostly target shooting, and personal / property protection.

As for the Colt, they are still on my boycott list. Member a few years ago when colt stopped selling their products to the public? If I was not good enough for a colt product then, they do not need my money now.
 

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I know it's not listed on that page, but at right at a $1,000, or so, the S&W M&P15 is proof that Smith & Wesson is building rifles right. I have the MOE version (saved money on stuff I would have added anyway!) and couldn't be happier! Just my 2 cents after having done a lot of shopping before finally "pulling the trigger" so to speak.
 

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Member a few years ago when colt stopped selling their products to the public?
No I was actually unaware of that. For what you want to use it for, either would do fine. If you plan to put a lot of rounds through it I would probably lean towards the chrome lined barrel. I have a Bushmaster that I am pretty happy with. Just have to ignore the internet myths about them being poor quality. Just not true. They are probably second to Colt as the longest running manufacturer of AR style weapons. I believe they opened their doors for business in 1972.
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/index.php/cPath/36_60
I like the looks of this one: http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/36_60/products_id/63788/Bushmaster+223+BLK
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
How about a Spikes ST-15 with a MagPul MOE Handguard?

ST-15 Specs:

Spike's Tactical 16", 1:7 Twist, Mil-spec Barrel
M4 Barrel Profile, Carbine Length Gas System
F-marked A2 Front Sight Base, .750" Diameter Gas Seat
Spike's Tactical Mil-spec M16 Bolt Carrier Group
M4 Double Heat Shield Handguards
A2 Flash Hider
Mil-spec Lower Parts
ST-T2 Tungsten Buffer
ST M4 Stock
 

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How about a Spikes ST-15 with a MagPul MOE Handguard?

ST-15 Specs:

Spike's Tactical 16", 1:7 Twist, Mil-spec Barrel
M4 Barrel Profile, Carbine Length Gas System
F-marked A2 Front Sight Base, .750" Diameter Gas Seat
Spike's Tactical Mil-spec M16 Bolt Carrier Group
M4 Double Heat Shield Handguards
A2 Flash Hider
Mil-spec Lower Parts
ST-T2 Tungsten Buffer
ST M4 Stock
Disclaimer: I am biased towards Spikes Tactical because that's what I own:

They make a top notch product. You won't regret an ST-15. I prefer the mid-Length configuration to the carbine length. You won't be displeased with either one though. The T2 buffer that comes on Spikes rifle is a dream. It really smooths out the recoil and makes the rifle softer shooting. They also come standard with a full auto M16 BCG. There are a lots of articles on why a FA BCG is desired. The F marked front sight base is desired because it gives you the proper hight to mount any BUIS that you want. Rifles that don't have an F marked FSB might require you to add a riser or make more adjustments to your rear sight. The 1:7 barrel allows you to shoot the heavier 75gr loads. I shoot 55gr loads and up in mine.

Anyway, ST gets my vote.
 

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I kind of have the butt hurt against spike for there over night skyjacking of the lower reciever price when obama took office . I know others who done the same . that being said alot of people shoot and love there spikes rifles .
rock river makes a good product I own 2 of there rifles and I have saw some good deals out there lately , bushmaster is a solid rifle I own one of those also for 9 years now and it has never let me down.
I would also take a long look at palmetto state armory there stuff has been getting good reviews.
I would say build your own since you can configure the way you want and you will know the guy who put your rifle together.
 

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Barrel Twist - 1 in 7 vs 1 in 9

As I said above - I like what I own - a Rock River. It was noted in another post that the Spikes has a 1 in 7 barrel twist. People like this because it is the "military" twist rate. But the military has special needs. Part of the reason they chose this faster twist rate is for the use of tracer bullets. Maybe you are some sort of military special ops guy who "needs" to shoot tracers - but not me. If you are going to shoot mostly 55 grain and 62 grain bullets which are the cheapest and most available ammo then you are better off with a slower twist barrel like a one in nine. For these lighter weight ranges a one in nine is actually better than a one in seven. My how things have changed over the years. When I bought my first AR the one in nine was considered a fast twist rate and most sporting rifles chambered in 223 like the Remington 700 had a one in twelve twist rate. Personally if I were rich and could build a total custom AR-15 rifle I would not choose the one in seven twist rate. For me it would be one in nine or perhaps one in eight.

Here are two links for reference. There are links that give weight ranges for each twist rate but I can't find them right now.

:: Ammo Oracle

:: Ammo Oracle

Edited to add that I have nothing against Spikes brand ARs.
 

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You may want to look at Del-Ton. They have some solid offerings for not a bunch of money.
 

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Here is what you need to do, buy this: 16'' Mid-length, Chrome-lined, Rifle Kit - Rifle Kits - AR-15
and this: PSA AR15 Lower - Lower Receivers - Lower Parts - AR-15
You will have to put a few items together on the lower but you will have a good solid rifle for $579.00. It will take maybe 30 minutes to put the lower together, you can manage it with no special tools and there is a sticky at the top of this forum to walk you through it. Also plenty of You tube videos out there.
BTW, that is Mil-Spec 4150 steel chrome lined barrel, full auto chrome lined bolt carrier, you name it, it's in there.
 

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As I said above - I like what I own - a Rock River. It was noted in another post that the Spikes has a 1 in 7 barrel twist. People like this because it is the "military" twist rate. But the military has special needs. Part of the reason they chose this faster twist rate is for the use of tracer bullets. Maybe you are some sort of military special ops guy who "needs" to shoot tracers - but not me. If you are going to shoot mostly 55 grain and 62 grain bullets which are the cheapest and most available ammo then you are better off with a slower twist barrel like a one in nine. For these lighter weight ranges a one in nine is actually better than a one in seven. My how things have changed over the years. When I bought my first AR the one in nine was considered a fast twist rate and most sporting rifles chambered in 223 like the Remington 700 had a one in twelve twist rate. Personally if I were rich and could build a total custom AR-15 rifle I would not choose the one in seven twist rate. For me it would be one in nine or perhaps one in eight.

Here are two links for reference. There are links that give weight ranges for each twist rate but I can't find them right now.

:: Ammo Oracle

:: Ammo Oracle

Edited to add that I have nothing against Spikes brand ARs.
I will speak from experience . I own 223/5.56 rifles with rifling twist of 1/7 , 1/9 , and 1/12 . Until you get to bullets weighing less than 50 grains the 1/7 will shoot just as good and alot of times better than the others. the 1/12 will shoot 55 grain bullets adequate but really prefers the 52 grain hornady amax or for some ungodly reason the cheap midway dog town 55 grain hollowpoints . its miserable with xm-193. the 1/9 twist will handle 50 grain up to 68 grain hornady boat tails pretty good and my mini-14 loves the hornady 75 grain steel practice ammo , go figure that one out , but my 1/7 twist is the only one that will give sub moa groups with the barnes 70 grain tsx bullet and this bullet is living hell on deer and pigs . so shooting tracers is not the only application for a faster twist and you will find most of the premier national match rifles chambered for 1/7 or 1/8 twist .
for what its worth I have found that the barnes 62 grain tsx and sierra 60 grain bullets tend to be very accurate in 1/9 twist barrels . If you are going to use your new rifle to deer hunt then the 62 grain barnes is about as good as it gets.
 

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I built two, both old-timey retro rifles for about $700 each. One can build one for about $550 these days. The only trouble you'll have is convincing some people that bragging rights aren't worth an extra $450. You'll get what you pay for (i.e. a rifle and about 1500 rounds of ammo instead of just a rifle).:D
 

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i am just starting off in the AR world and i have the S&W M&P 15 Sport. flat top optics ready and available at my local Academy sporting goods store for $650 Alas, it has no forward assist, dust cover, or chrome lining in the barrel. i dont know what the twist rate is but i zeroed a 1x reddot at 75 yards and i can hit the "gong" at 300 without any adjustments. it has a 16" barrel and iron sights that come with it as well as a magpul pmag 30 rounder. i am a mini 14 guy who sold out to the AR. what is my twist rate guys?
 
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