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Jim, as a very new owner of a 1943 M1, I greatly appreciated the information you provided in both the GunDigest article and on this thread. Both were very informative and educational. Cheers!!
 

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Thanks, "montigre".

This is what happens when one researches things. The same is happening on some forums where I tried to help people. Did my homework many decades ago, contacting original sources, talking to manufacturer's staff, collated thousands of targets, run hundreds of thousands of experiment rounds, and tabulated them all, spent time and money running chemical testing on data, and so on.

But some jerk who has heard moronic crap at gun shows, lies and stereotypical projections from his buddies, and who claims to have "lots of experience" can flat out call the real researcher a "liar" and "wrong.

Asimov remarked on it long, long ago:

"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."

― Isaac Asimov


What's ugly is, some of these dimwits manage to get published in important publications, often with totally unsupported tales, and they make assertions and establish LIES casually.

What ever happened to logic and hard research technique?

On the Internet, much hogwash is spewed!!
 

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Sounds good Jim. I've just logged a few hours of hogwash and moronic crap in combat with the rifle on my shoulder. Nothing close to the hours of research you have expended to grant US this emporium of intellectualism. :eek:

PS: Thank You Sir for your diligence. It had to take several years to amass and record all the data listed within your published works. Thanks for all the effort.
 

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FWIW i have lots of experience with the Garand and the M14 (M1a) having 4 Garands that i shoot and also a built M1a. Just my opinion but the .308 is a more accurate cartridge than the 30-06 in a bench rifle. With that said either cartridge is more accurate than the Garand or M14 platform. Practical accuracy is comparable between the 14 and Garand in service configurations.

There are two types of 308 Garands. Those that have had the camber sleeved and those that have been re-barreld. The sleeved guns tend to not shoot as well in my experience. The CMP sells 308 Garands as specials for competition shooters but the Navy did re-barrel some in the 50s and 60s.
 

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Not really. "Service configuation" takes in a lot of territory. I've set up M1's without bedding that did SUB-MOA, and several of them are now in the hands of others. They weren't really "match" rifles, but they weren't "G.I.", either.

A return to original service condition is something most M1 users don't seem to understand. Old, sloppy stocks and wobbly gas cylinders CANNOT deliver very good reults.

Of course that won't equal a heavy barreled single shot that weighs twenty pounds, but no "sporting rifle" will stay with 'em.

Anyone shooting bushing-ed chambers now is a fool or worse. Real .308 barrels are all over the place. And many M1's were DELIVERED as 7.62x51mm. rifles, from the U.S. and from here. The first one I had showed a 1951 date. The 6 million HRA I had was NEVER in any other chambering, and NEVER had a sleeve.

It's in Duff, too, and Giacobbe had one about three serial numbers from mine. Ackley, the White lab researchers, and the entire U.S. military attested to the greater efficiency, consistency, and accuracy of the new round, in writing, fully documented, in thousands of well-known studies. Hot air does NOT constitute anything but b.s.

That's not just some jivea** internet crap. It's the result of sixty years of hard research, from Ackley to Antonelli, and not just unverified hot air. Fully verified and authenticated.

Beretta's M1's for their last export contracts were ALL in 7.62x51, and were never any other way.

By the way, my book is now available, signed, at $25 the pop.
 

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My M1 rifles are all .30-06 CMP Service Grades, w/ very good bores.

They generally shoot < 3 MOA w/ M2 Ball ammo, and a little better than that w/ the commercial (PPU) variety.

... more like < 2.5 MOA.

And, since the .308 round has no place in my ammo locker, and I don't compete for prizes?

The .308 round? Would be a trivial pursuit.




GR
 

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Jim...please re-read what i said...I think you may be misunderstanding some of the points i made do the sloppiness of how i stated it. First...M1s were sleeved...and converted with 7.62x51 barrels. Hell...ive fired both variants. Ive owned 2 in 7.62x51 actually. First being a navy gun with a shot out barrel chambered in 7.62x51 that would key hole. The second being a CMP special with a Criterion barrel.

If any were delivered from either SA, HR, or IHC in 7.62x51 to the govt I'm unaware of it...but i suppose its possible. Id imagine that's a rare bird indeed.

Second...service configuration would mean an as issued gun. Ive never laid hands on a real M14 mind you (very few have) I'm talking reproduction M1a's. In my experience with standard grade SA inc. M1a's, Norincos etc and various garands from bring backs to CMP guns...they shoot about the same. Talking iron sights of course.

If you can routinely make sub MOA guns out of M1s, M14s or M1a's (and I'm not doubting you) you should go hang out with the M1A crowd. Ive got 4 grand + into a double lug LRB with a Kreiger barrel that won't do that in anyones hands and its bedded into a McM stock, has a unitized gas system...you name it. Had a NM SA inc that was about the same. You can walk into bass pro and buy a myriad of sporting rifles with sub moa guarantees on them for under $6 or $700...and they weigh under 8lbs.

The M1/M1a/M14/Ruger Mini is my favorite platform of all time. I love them...i love everything about them. But if anyone is being totally honest...accuracy and repeatability of said accuracy is not their strong point in the grand scheme of things. At least not when compared to bolt guns...or ARs to name a few.

Still my favorite platforms of all time. I target shoot with them, i hunt with them...heck I'm here reading about them.
 
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