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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Beating a dead horse here and simultaneously asking for recommendations based on experience. I’ll preface with the disclaimer that I'm frustrated and the first paragraph is a rant. A request for extra grace is appreciated from the faithful purists.

Mini’s get the pass for poor accuracy because they are designed first and foremost to be reliable....blah, blah, blah. So is an AR, except most of them, even budget models, shoot 1.5 moa or less out of the box. My personal opinion is it’s frustrating that a major firearm mfg wont fix a 30 year old problem while simultaneously asking $800 for the gun. Its not the fault of the action design, its the fault of the mfg. Im not one that enjoys spending additional money and an unreasonable amount of time tinkering with a brand new $800 gun in order to get it to shoot. If this firearm cost $300, this thread wouldn’t exist.

My mini is an 18” ranch that was bought new 2 months ago. Ive done the following mods.. credit card shimming between the receiver and metal stock support, including between the trigger assy forks and stock (I'm sure glass/epoxy bedding is better but the action is TIGHT), buffers on both ends of op rod (no ftf or fte), trigger job performed by Accuracy Systems, new Accuracy Systems non adjustable gas block, .045 gas bushing, gas block gap is even via feeler gauges and torqued to 40 inch lb per AS instructions for their HD gas block. Ammo I’ve tried: Hornady superformance 53gr vmax, Federal 53gr predator/varmint vmax, Prvi Partizan 55gr SP, Hornady superformance 55gr GMX, PMC x-tac 55gr FMJ.

Vertical grouping at 100yds using a new Leupold scope and factory Ruger rings (all hardware is torqued to mfg spec) is acceptable to me with all ammo at anywhere between 1” and 2”. Horizontally however is a different story. Horizontal ranges anywhere between 3.5” and 5” average. These are 5 shot groups from a cold barrel. This gun has horizontal issues and I’m not sure what direction to take. The only thing i can think of now is trying to bed the fore end and gas block. Of course then theres a whole nother can of worms debating whether to bed or float. I just hope there’s a few knowledgeable people that I haven’t offended too much that will still offer suggestions or provide experienced insight....
 

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It sounds like it's stringing. Those oblong groups usually indicate thermal stringing. I would have the barrel/receiver cryo-treated. Cheap fix at $35.
 

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kkina is being modest. While some other strut vendors will hawk their wares shamelessly on this forum, he doesn't even mention that his product is the very best way to eliminate almost all stringing. My 195 Mini-14 would string (vertically) 3 1/2", after I installed a two clamp Accustrut it would shoot nice round 1 1/2" inch groups.

Someone here, Hellgate maybe ? said he sent his Mini off for cyro treating and it didn't help a bit. Only $35 ? I was thinking it was more like $80 or $100 to have a barrel cyro treated, if you can get it done for only $35 it would be worth a try.

Most stringing problems are vertical though, not horizontal. Weird, you sure it wasn't really windy while you were shooting ?
Just curious, why did you put an ASI gas block on a new Mini ? How did it shoot with the factory gas block ?

How did it shoot before you shimmed the action ? Usually shimming is a good thing, but this summer I shimmed the stock on one of my Mini-30s, along with trying a different flash hider and putting on a MoRod strut I got in a trade, and now it doesn't shoot near as well as it used to.
I'm going to have to un-do those mods one at a time to see which one had a detrimental effect on accuracy.

If I was you, I'd do the same, take each mod off one at a time, and shoot again to see if you can find out which one is causing the horizontal stringing.
If it's still doing it, try improving the crown. I'll lend you the tools to re-do the crown id you decide to do that.
If you are still having problems, sell the dang thing and stick with your Mini-30 !
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks for the recommendation, ill try undoing one at a time. Cant see how the shimming could hurt, it was sooo loose in the stock. Besides firing off a few rounds, I didn’t shoot it enough in stock form to create a base line on accuracy. Like I typically do, i have all these big ideas on how to improve the gun, I usually have some mods waiting before I even get my hands on the gun.

As for the gas block, i liked the integrated standard sling swivel stud it has then was lured in with the description on how heavy duty it was and resisted cracking like the factory pieces sometimes do.
 

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Mini's get the pass for poor accuracy because they are designed first and foremost to be reliable....blah, blah, blah. So is an AR, except most of them, even budget models, shoot 1.5 moa or less out of the box. My personal opinion is it's frustrating that a major firearm mfg wont fix a 30 year old problem while simultaneously asking $800 for the gun. Its not the fault of the action design, its the fault of the mfg. Im not one that enjoys spending additional money and an unreasonable amount of time tinkering with a brand new $800 gun in order to get it to shoot. If this firearm cost $300, this thread wouldn't exist.
Thanks for the recommendation, ill try undoing one at a time. Cant see how the shimming could hurt, it was sooo loose in the stock. Besides firing off a few rounds, I didn't shoot it enough in stock form to create a base line on accuracy. Like I typically do, i have all these big ideas on how to improve the gun, I usually have some mods waiting before I even get my hands on the gun.
Do you see the contradiction here?
 

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I do the same thing, most of the mods known here have proven to be beneficial, so I usually do them right away when I get a new Mini.
I've never heard of a gas block cracking, sometimes ASI will exaggerate descriptions in order to sell more stuff.

Just because the factory puts the sling swivel on the gas block doesn't mean you have to do it that way. There are better ways to do it.
I have no use for the factory swivel mounting location anyway, I prefer to mount on the end of the stock near the gas block. I add a couple short rails on either side of the fore end, one for the sling, the other side is for a SureFire light.

I guess it's a throwback from my Army days, but I find the side mounted sling much superior than the bottom mounted factory location.
I have never noticed accuracy issues with sling pressure, as when I'm shooting I don't have the sling way tight so it would pull on the fore end.

The side mounted sling is all about ease of carrying and being able to get the Mini into action quickly.
You can have the sling snug to aid in shooting without twisting the fore end.
The exception would be the Choate aftermarket stock, you can flex the end of the stock very easily on those.

Here my daughter is holding her Mini with sling mounted side/front and top/rear:
 

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In response to your rant... The reason they haven't worried about fixing any problems is they haven't needed to. They have a guaranteed seller on their hands. It passes in may states with tough laws, and it has that old school look that so many of us long for.

As far as accuracy goes, same as has been said. Only make one change at a time, or you'll never know what works, and what doesn't. That said, I just picked up a 583, and the first thing I did was go about making it look more M14 like. See what I mean about that old school look we desire?
 

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Hello SEHunter.
I agree with some of the other folks about making changes. Here are my thoughts. The shimming with the credit cards are good to go. Leave them alone. Take out the front buffer. Leave the .045 gas bushing for now.

Something I like to do is, take any rough machining marks out of the barrel. I use a nylon brush on a cable pull and Brasso. I set the rifle in a cradle so it doesn't move, I run the cable pull from the chamber end of the rifle out through the muzzle. I dip the brush into a bottle of Brasso and then pull it through. You have to dip it a couple of times and pull it through several times until the barrel is coated with the Brasso on the inside. Let the Brasso work for about 15 minutes inside of the barrel and then start the clean up. I clean up by spraying some carburetor/injector spray cleaner through the barrel directly to a pan on the floor. (I keep and reuse the cleaner) After a good flushing then clean using patches pulling them from the chamber end. This helps smooth out the barrel machine marks and removes any built up copper.

After this it's time to removes the ASI parts and replace them with the factory original parts. I really don't think this is the cause but I could be wrong. If none of this helps now is the time for cryo treating or a strut. I also reload my own ammo and I have found it much more accurate than the factory ammo. If you reload and want some loads I have found accurate let me know and I'll send you some recipes.

kwg
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Do you see the contradiction here?
No I don't because there's no contradiction, however i did not word that quote exactly to my intention. It took less than hour to do these simple mods and it was relatively inexpensive. Relatively. Quick effective mods are fun.

What I'm referencing is after everything done, beginning the process of......undoing, doing again, undoing again, doing again, bed, dremel out bedding, research resale value, rebedding again in a different way, buying a different scope, bugging all you guys again, returning to stock form, redoing mods, etc, etc, etc, etc. Thats far beyond the fun zone for me personally.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
In response to your rant... The reason they haven't worried about fixing any problems is they haven't needed to. They have a guaranteed seller on their hands. It passes in may states with tough laws, and it has that old school look that so many of us long for.

As far as accuracy goes, same as has been said. Only make one change at a time, or you'll never know what works, and what doesn't. That said, I just picked up a 583, and the first thing I did was go about making it look more M14 like. See what I mean about that old school look we desire?
Cant argue with that. Still cant help to think it wouldn't take much on their end to address the fitment issues everyone corrects. Maybe I'm wrong.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Hello SEHunter.
I agree with some of the other folks about making changes. Here are my thoughts. The shimming with the credit cards are good to go. Leave hem alone. Take out the front buffer. Leave the .045 gas bushing for now.

Something I like to do is, take any rough machining marks out of the barrel. I use a nylon brush on a cable pull and Brasso. I set the rifle in a cradle so it doesn't move, I run the cable pull from the chamber end of the rifle out through the muzzle. I dip the brush into a bottle of Brasso and then pull it through. You have to dip it a couple of times and pull it through several times until the barrel is coated with the Brasso on the inside. Let the Brasso work for about 15 minutes inside of the barrel and then start the clean up. I clean up by spraying some carburetor/injector spray cleaner through the barrel directly to a pan on the floor. (I keep and reuse the cleaner) After a good flushing then clean using patches pulling them from the chamber end. This helps smooth out the barrel machine marks and removes any built up copper.

After this it's time to removes the ASI parts and replace them with the factory original parts. I really don't think this is the cause but I could be wrong. If none of this helps now is the time for cryo treating or a strut. I also reload my own ammo and I have found it much more accurate than the factory ammo. If you reload and want some loads I have found accurate let me know and I'll send you some recipes.

kwg
Thanks for that. Ill start with the Brasso, remove front bushing, and swap gas blocks back.

Just out of curiosity, whats your logic with removing the front bushing? Hasn't the bullet exited the muzzle by the time the op rod returns to static position?
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I do the same thing, most of the mods known here have proven to be beneficial, so I usually do them right away when I get a new Mini.
I've never heard of a gas block cracking, sometimes ASI will exaggerate descriptions in order to sell more stuff.

Just because the factory puts the sling swivel on the gas block doesn't mean you have to do it that way. There are better ways to do it.
I have no use for the factory swivel mounting location anyway, I prefer to mount on the end of the stock near the gas block. I add a couple short rails on either side of the fore end, one for the sling, the other side is for a SureFire light.

I guess it's a throwback from my Army days, but I find the side mounted sling much superior than the bottom mounted factory location.
I have never noticed accuracy issues with sling pressure, as when I'm shooting I don't have the sling way tight so it would pull on the fore end.

The side mounted sling is all about ease of carrying and being able to get the Mini into action quickly.
You can have the sling snug to aid in shooting without twisting the fore end.
The exception would be the Choate aftermarket stock, you can flex the end of the stock very easily on those.

Here my daughter is holding her Mini with sling mounted side/front and top/rear:
Beautiful wood/blued mini and beautiful daughter! Atleast you've got two good guns to keep the creeps away ftom the daughter, haha.
 

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Thanks for that. Ill start with the Brasso, remove front bushing, and swap gas blocks back.

Just out of curiosity, whats your logic with removing the front bushing? Hasn't the bullet exited the muzzle by the time the op rod returns to static position?
Do you mean the front buffer ? I think it holds the Op Rod back and doesn't hold the bolt tightly in place allowing some play with the round in the chamber. That's just me but the gun was not designed for anything at the front gas block except the Op Rod. The buffer at the rear is OK, especially if you are shooting hot loads.

I know that JB makes their Bore Bright but the Brasso has a bit of Ammonia in the mix and it helps to dissolve the copper along with buffing the barrel.

If possible only do one thing at a time so you know where the problem was.

kwg
 

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I wanted to mod my 583 tactical out right away too, but held back and glad I did, I seem to get real close to 2 inch groups at 100 yards pretty damn consistently. (I really think the 16 inch tapered barrel with flash suppressor helps keep stringing to a minimum because I don’t get it on mine) I did check my front gas block to make sure it was even though. My stock has been pretty damn solid too. My cases were getting battered pretty good, still do and at some point I’ll probably get a reduced gas bushing. I did put a rear buffer on and it seems to feel a bit smoother.

The biggest issue I had was my cheesy rear sight wanted to come loose. I epoxied around the inner edges and using sand paper gave it a hand fit, then I put a thin brass washer under the screw, zero’d the rifle, gave it a dab of thread locker and rechecked zero... I was thinking about the tech sights but my OCD just doesn’t like the look of Rugers engraving half covered... I know it’s kind of stupid, function over form, but it’d irritate me more than anything and the rear sight is just a backup to the scope anyways.

If I were you, I’d ditch the front buffer, put the OEM gas block back on, keep the reduced gas bushing and shoot the rifle a bit to get everything worn in good. Most of the guys responding here have been here since before myself and all seem to know what they’re talking about as well as being honest, listen to them!
 

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The Mini wasn't designed for a front buffer, but it wasn't designed with a rear buffer in mind, either.
What Ruger calls the buffer is the cylindrical steel bushing that holds the cross pin, and contains the end of the guide rod for the recoil spring. I can't see that part doing any real "buffing".

If you cycle the carbine manually, you'll see that after the bolt is fully forward and locked, the op-rod will continue forward a good 3/16".
So a front buffer isn't going to cause bad things to happen.
I don't know how most guys figure rear buffer=good, front buffer=bad, and only want to run a rear buffer.

As I've said before, the bolt will contact (barely) the inside of the receiver due to the op-rod coming back, but the recoil spring being compressed will absorb most of that.
There is very slight contact.
When the op-rod goes forward and slams against the gas block, there is NOTHING to absorb that impact, and the only thing that slows it down is a tiny bit of friction from a round being chambered, and a bit of friction from the op-rod touching the heat liner here and there as it travels forward.

That op-rod is a heavy piece, and the long spring is wanting to "un-compress".
Your gas block is getting battered.
If you feel that buffers are necessary at all ( some don't) run a front buffer as well as a rear one.
I don't claim to be an engineer, so feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

Good call on the JB, kwg. I have long used it on new barrels to help break in.
I've never used Brasso, but if it does contain Ammonia, remove all traces of it after use.
Copper removers like Sweet's 7.62 solvent work well at removing copper because of the Ammonia it contains, and left in the barrel too long, can "etch" the rifling.

Brasso helps remove tarnish, but if it doesn't have any abrasives in it, it's not going to do anything to smooth out the rough spots in a new barrel.
A little bit of abrasive isn't a bad thing. I use the red JB, not the tan/peanut butter looking JB, as the red is less abrasive.

If you really want to get your barrel squeaky clean, run patches/brushes through using your favorite solvent. When the patches come out clean, clean again with JB, and you'll see even more fouling and crud on the patches.
I used to be obsessive about cleaning and clean after ever range trip, now my Mini's only get thoroughly cleaned a couple times a year.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Do you mean the front buffer ? I think it holds the Op Rod back and doesn't hold the bolt tightly in place allowing some play with the round in the chamber. That's just me but the gun was not designed for anything at the front gas block except the Op Rod. The buffer at the rear is OK, especially if you are shooting hot loads.

I know that JB makes their Bore Bright but the Brasso has a bit of Ammonia in the mix and it helps to dissolve the copper along with buffing the barrel.

If possible only do one thing at a time so you know where the problem was.

kwg
Sorry, yes, i meant to say buffer everywhere i said bushing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
This thread has gotten long so hopefully I still have your guy’s attention because I wanted to ask about a couple more things. There is an interesting thread from a number of years ago (some of you may have been a part of it) discussing bedding the mini and there was alot of attention given to the op rod guide/fore end liner. There was discussion about reading the wear marks from the op rod as well as bedding the liner to the stock (using screws somehow also) and bedding the end cap, etc. Also in contrast, “floating” the gas block.

Have these mods been proven to help? Is it all about barrel harmonics? I kinda get how movement between the stock and gas block could potentially affect accuracy but don’t understand how the relationship between the op rod and stock liner affects accuracy. For the most part, hasn’t the bullet already left the bore for the last 90 percent of the op rod cycling process?
 

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Good News is you're in the right place to hopefully have a happy ending. The possibility of a not so good barrel exists. I shared your frustration because every other firearm I ever purchased new is an MOA or better platform out of the box. There is a reason for this forum, the mini needs help and there is an passionate group here to help. Cut that barrel off to 16.25" crown it, put a dampener (flash hider) on the end. This and an excellent trigger brought mine to near the front of the safe instead of collecting dust. It was here that I started that journey. But I'm in the KISS category of mechanical adjustments/changes. Good Luck! Keep us posted buddy.
 
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