[bobgengeskahn]

Hello all. So I am at my witts end with my 188 Ranch, and am seriously thinking about selling it (actually already posted it for sale in one place). In my 'youth' and being over zealous with it years ago, I cut the barrel WAY short (~14.5", 16" with a perm attached FAL brake) and I am thinking that if I don't end up selling it I'll replace the barrel; and not having a ton of money laying around to send it to ASI, I'll just bring it back to stock. (Other than the other aftermarket parts I have on it already: Ultimak, mag release, gen.1 adjustable gas block)

I was just looking around on Numrich and they don't have anything listed looking like it would go on a 188 ranch.
Numrich Gun Parts Corp. - The World's Largest Supplier of Firearms Parts and Accessories

So my questions is, does it matter which barrel you get for the older minis? Did the threading change with the 580 series? Was there a difference between the RR and the "regular" barrels that would make one not fit the other?

Thanks.

 

[Practical Shooter]

What are you at "wits end" about? Accuracy? Velocity? Noise from the brake?

What is your P.O.U. with this carbine?

 

[Practical Shooter]

What are you at "wits end" about? Accuracy? Velocity? Noise from the brake?

What is your P.O.U. with this carbine?

 

[bobgengeskahn]

It's just been a tweak here, and a tweak there; and every tweak has caused something else to get just a little off, namely the barrel shortness has cause cycling problems as of late. I was able to get it to the range last week and got it cycling with 55gr ammo, but its just super soft and you could equate the ejection to drooling, when it doesn't stove pipe. All in all I love the rifle, however unfortunately I only measured once before I cut, so to say; and for what I want to do it would seem that it is just a little too short. So that leaves me with either re-barreling with a stock barrel or an ASI-ish type barrel.

Edit:
The P.O.U. for this, in my mind has been two fold for me. Firstly I wanted to get into 3-gun or tac matches with it, i.e. shorter range engagements since I'm in CA and using an AR is, annoying to say the least. Secondly, as a SHTF choice, even over my ARs due to the design characteristics of the mini itself. IMHO the operational design and less 'threatening' nature of the mini lends itself to a better SHTF choice than an AR.

 

[Practical Shooter]

What gas pill do you have in it? Factory? That is around .105, you could easily open that up .005 at a time until you get good ejection action.

I think a 14" + brake combo is rather excellent for a sub-300 yard carbine, well balanced and doesn't give up much velocity.

 

[bobgengeskahn]

Currently I have a stock replacement that I got off of Brownells since I lost the original. It was a short term fix, although I was talking with Gundoc about his replacements. How would you go about opening the factory gas bushing? Although its nice the way it is (it kicks like a butterfly with NO rise) the gas block doesn't adjust worth a d**n, probably because the pressures are so low right now.

 

[Guido]

Intriguing problem you have. If this were my rifle I would look into the gas system before laying out dough on a barrel. It may be a simple task to clear a blockage.

What gas bushing is in the gas block? If all seems clear and the OEM bushing is in place you could judisiuosly ream the gas port in the barrel to improve flow.
Guido

 

[Practical Shooter]

First, look for blockage. Clean as required.

Next have a look at a #33 through #37 drill bit sizes. Something in that range ought to open up your system enough to throw brass with more authority.

 

[COBrien]

You said the gas block doesn't adjust worth a damn. Does it have an ASI adjustable on it now? If so, I'd go back to an original Ruger block and OE bushing. Then you can work your way down on the bushings to find the smallest diameter that is still reliable.

If you're determined to re-barrel it and short on cash, I'd recommend calling Ruger. I've heard they will install a 580-up barrel on a pre-580 Mini at a reasonable price.

 

[Dacotua]

You know if you call ruger and say youve got cycling issues, they will replace your cut barrel with a new one at a charge

 

[bobgengeskahn]

First, look for blockage. Clean as required.

Next have a look at a #33 through #37 drill bit sizes. Something in that range ought to open up your system enough to throw brass with more authority.

lol, ok Shooter, Youve convinced me to give it another go around. I took a bit to the bushing last night and ordered a new recoil spring and glass bedding kit on Brownells last night as well. I figured for ~$30 its worth another try
Edit: new recoil spring is because I currently have the wolf spring in there and was slowly chopping it down so that it would cycle.

You said the gas block doesn't adjust worth a damn. Does it have an ASI adjustable on it now? If so, I'd go back to an original Ruger block and OE bushing. Then you can work your way down on the bushings to find the smallest diameter that is still reliable.

Right now its the Gen 1 adjustable (looks like the factory block with hex key adjustment and a standard sling mount hole). At the range I opened it all the way up, and screwed it all the way down and there was no real difference. I have a feeling it is because of the low pressure getting into the block, hopefully the above modification will fix that.

You know if you call ruger and say youve got cycling issues, they will replace your cut barrel with a new one at a charge

Yeah, this is exactly what I was originally asking about. I heard it is usually done around ~$180/200, which isn't bad for a factory rebarrel. I was also thinking about possibly getting a barrel off Numrich (~$90) and seeing what a LGS would charge to do the swap, just to save on shipping and having to deal with removing all my after market stuff. Chances are that if I did do this I'd still end up cutting it to some extent, although I'd probably be a little more methodical about it this time around.

 

[gundoc]

OK, you went too short. Opening the gas port bushing won't be your fix, but opening the gas port in the barrel will. It's a matter of dwell, pressure and volume. Find a drill bit that fits snugly in the barrel gas port. Then insert a wooden dowel in the barrel and using a drill one or two sizes larger open up the barrel port. Caution - this is going to be wire size number drills not hardware store fractional drills. It will be a bit of trial and error to get the cycle just right and keep the ejection down but it will work. Use a drill press or hand drill and go slow. The wooden dowel will keep you from marring the lands and grooves on the other side of the bore. Chances are you won't raise a burr but if you do the first shot will take care of that - you're only enlarging the hole, not drilling a new one so very small chance of a burr.

What happened? The shorter barrel isn't allowing enough time for the gas volume to build behind the bullet after it passes the gas port. So the rifle short cycles and stove-pipes. Since we can't get the bullet to stay in the barrel any longer, we need to increase the path of least resistance for the gases by making the barrel port larger in order to achieve sufficient pressure/volume to fully cycle the rifle.

 

[kwg020]

Great explanation Gundoc. kwg

 

[Practical Shooter]

I'm inclined to agree with gundoc, but the other problem with your set-up is you are cutting the wolff spring.

Spring rate is a function of 4 factors. Wire diameter, number of active coils, spring modulus (constant for spring steel) and overall diameter of the spring.

spring rate =

modulus of spring steel X wire diameter4
--------------------------------------------------------------------
8 X number of active coils X mean coil diameter3

modulus of spring steel = 11,250,000 pounds/inch2

By cutting your Wolff spring, you are increasing it's overall spring rate, which is slowing your cycling. I know this is not intuitive, but trust me, this is what is happening.

I bet that the factory spring may solve most of your issues.

 

[bobgengeskahn]

What happened? The shorter barrel isn't allowing enough time for the gas volume to build behind the bullet after it passes the gas port. So the rifle short cycles and stove-pipes. Since we can't get the bullet to stay in the barrel any longer, we need to increase the path of least resistance for the gases by making the barrel port larger in order to achieve sufficient pressure/volume to fully cycle the rifle.

Thanks Doc. Thats kind of what I figured, so I took your advice and went ahead and opened up the bushing (since I have the adjustable) and the gas port on the barrel. Awaiting my package from Brownells for the new recoil spring before I take it back to the range.

I'm inclined to agree with gundoc, but the other problem with your set-up is you are cutting the wolff spring.

Spring rate is a function of 4 factors. Wire diameter, number of active coils, spring modulus (constant for spring steel) and overall diameter of the spring.

Thanks again Shooter. I knew this going into it before I cut the spring down. I had the spring installed form before I cut the barrel and got the adjustable gas block, trying to reduce the recoil. So I was just working with what I had to see if I could get it to cycle again. I'm really looking forward to my Brownells package coming in with the new factory strength spring so I can try it out. I also bit the bullet and got a bedding kit while I was at it, I figured its worth seeing what it does, hopefully I can get it on paper and work from there.

 

[gazedrop]

By cutting your Wolff spring, you are increasing it's overall spring rate, which is slowing your cycling. I know this is not intuitive, but trust me, this is what is happening.

One way to think of this in its extreme is to visualize 2 pieces of coat hanger wire, one 1" long, and one 1' long. Which is easier to bend?

(And not to muck this up, but springs may produce lighter results in an assembly when cut down because we are reducing preload on them.)

Thanks for that formula, Practical; I need to write that down someplace!