[grumpy_old_man]

Hi everyone;

Wasn't quite sure where to post this, but since my main questions are on which longarm is best I figured the Rifle Forum would do.

Lots of people post ideas about "Bug Out Bags", "I'm Not Coming Home Bags", etc. but I seldom see any suggestions about an emergency cache that is well hidden, possibly buried but in any case remote from your main site. Whole point is that if your primary cache of food, weapons, etc is somehow compromised (fire, theft, confiscation, etc) you have something you can fall back on.

Sorry, no snazzy name for it. Maybe one of you can come up with one?

Here goes:
1. EDC replacement - a small sidearm/knife/flashlight combo w/holster for the sidearm; my thoughts here are used S&W or Taurus J-frame 38/Kershaw Blur/Minimaglite LED w/spare batteries.
2. $$, ID, and a cheap wallet - In today's money, maybe $1000 cash.
3. Clothing - 1 set of nondescript clothing, say blue jeans & flannel shirt w/ hat & jacket and w/2 sets underwear & 1 pair of shoes (broken in but not worn out). Sunglasses too - we live in a surveillance society and anything to obscure your face discretely is a good thing.
4. Rifle - has to be cheap but "good enough" - my thoughts here are something like a SKS or 10/22 or Mosin Nagant. Low price/high value is the way to go. This is where I'm really torn, see below.
5. Ammo - say 200 ctgs for the sidearm and 400 ctgs for the rifle unless I go with a .22LR in which case 1000 Stingers.
6. Backpack - should be able to fit everything except the rifle (if an SKS or 10/22 w/folding stock and 16" bbl could fit that too). Can NOT look "military" in any way shape or form.
7. Food - 3 days' of freeze dried rations & a high energy ration (something like plain M&M's that keep pretty well when sealed).
8. Medical kit/sanitary - basic first aid and trauma only. Bandages, band aids, antibiotics if available for storage, soap, tooth brushes, paste and floss, 1 small roll toilet paper, etc.
9. Sheath knife - Swedish Mora 4" survival knife, about $20 brand new (or less).
10. Water purification - a true filter like an MSR Miniworks would be best, but crystalline iodide tabs work and take up less space.

Store in sealed container, hopefully waterproof. Needs to have LOTS of dessicant so that the clothing won't mold/rot and the ammo will stay fresh. If buried, extra attention needs to be paid to water sealing.

Thoughts anyone?

On the longarm I was really torn between something like an SKS (great fighting rifle, legal most places), Mosin Nagant (range/power/cheap, legal most places) and a 10/22 w/folding stock (1000 rounds of stingers don't take up that much room and the rifle is compact enough to fit in a medium sized pack). Thoughts settled on a fighting rifle but that may be a mistake - your opinions? If I go SKS, I'll wait until after the panic prices have subsided further and see if I can salvage someone else's "bubba". Don't have the heart to shorten the tube or "bubba" a classic preban SKS personally.

The whole idea is a budget less than $1500 and it is an investment that can save your butt if everything goes south. IOW a better investment than a spare AR15 sitting next to your primary two that you already have....

Just some ideas and questions.
Grumpy

 

[Tailgunner]

One thing to consider, firing ANY weapon will get the attention of whom ever you're trying to avoid. Firing a large caliber weapon will not only attract unwanted attention sooner, but from further away.

Now, for pure on survival, something like the old Savage 22LR over 410 shotgun (with a basic assortment of ammo) would go a long way toward providing both food and defense, without carrying the noise/distance penalty of a high power rifle.

 

[grumpy_old_man]

Good point. That would tend to push me towards the 10/22 (already have tons of parts and accessories on hand for that system - and in a real pinch could allocate one of the spares to "underground reserve duty" so to speak).

Probably would want a mixed supply of ammo then - say some .22 subsonics to go with the stingers. Different POI but really really quiet.

Need to think about this.
Thanks,
Grumpy

 

[fishslayerbob]

You might want to consider some .22 shorts. Both my pump and boltgun will feed shorts reliably. You cannot hear them being fired at all. They would be great for rabbits and squirrels to supply food. They're about as effective as a slingshot, but you can aim a rifle more effectively. I wouldn't want to be close enough for arterial shots on blue helmets, but that's just me.

fishslayerbob

 

[Jeff F]

If your going to use a .22 I would seriously rethink the stingers. I had to shoot a yellow lab that was chasing my cows. I did so with a scoped 10-22 with stingers and the shots were about 40 yards or so. It was not a good thing, I hit that dog 9 out of 10 rounds, good solid hits and he was able to make it a couple hundred yards and die on his door step. The really bad part is he was a bloody mess and there were kids present. Stingers do not penetrate very well. I would go with standard high velocity hollow points.

 

[fishslayerbob]

I had to shoot a mess of feral cats years ago, so I know what you mean. Animals don't die like you plan it to happen. My doggie is half Lab and half shepherd and she's blonde. I thought of her while I was reading your post and got wierded out. I have never been able to put a dog down. My dog is incapable of lying. When I come home from work I ask her if she's been a good girl. If she has, she will sit. If she hasn't, she will hang her head and I will find out what she's done wrong in due time. She knows that she gets a treat from Bass Pro Shops if she's been good and she still can't lie! What was this thread about, anyway?


fishslayerbob

 

[Jeff F]

Sorry fishslayer, I'm a dog owner and a dog lover also. I have also raised livestock and always been a responsible animal owner. I have had to shoot problem dogs more then once. I don't like to do it but at times it must be done. I get mad at the owners that are not taking care of their dogs.

Anyhow, getting back to the OP's question on Emergency Caching. I don't have any buried cache as of this time. I might if a ban of some type passes. I do have stuff including food, arms and ammo in a number of different locations. I even have a couple safety deposit boxes in a couple of different city's that may or may not contain a sidearm and a bit of ammo along with a little cash

 

[grumpy_old_man]

Good read gental men.

Here's the Native bug out bag.

Good knife- roll of sinew - few fishing hooks - pouch of metal arrow points- buffalo bladder canteen - dried pemmican ( Pemmican - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia )good moccs -
Flint & striker - good blanket -change of clothes.
Everything else we get or make from the wild around us.
All my traditional skills are intact.

JRedHorse, what can I say? I really wish I had the skill set that would let me use such simple and elegant kit as those who spent their youths learning the traditional ways. I can try to develop part of it, late in life, but for now I have to go with what works within my limits. Which is to say that any of the young preppers out there would be well advised to learn from the real experts before you get to be grumpy old men!

As far as a rifle though, for both defense and food gathering, what do you think? I'm still leaning towards the SKS, since its a good design firing an intermediate cartridge, but a folding stocked 10/22 would be smaller and quieter as was already pointed out to me. The Chechens have done well in their guerrilla war against the Russians with .22's for example.

Just thoughts. The world seems to be headed into a dark place and I always like to hedge my bets.

All the best,
Grumpy

 

[Tommygunner]

Lots of people post ideas about "Bug Out Bags", "I'm Not Coming Home Bags", etc. but I seldom see any suggestions about an emergency cache that is well hidden, possibly buried but in any case remote from your main site. Whole point is that if your primary cache of food, weapons, etc is somehow compromised (fire, theft, confiscation, etc) you have something you can fall back on.

Before this thread goes down the pooper to answer your question...
PVC pipe. Fill it full of whatever. glue the ends on and bury it where ever. Throw in a dessicant bag to cover any condensation. Water proof, cheap, Get it at any hardware store or plumbing supply place. Will hold and keep anything you can fit in. You can get PVC pipe in any diamater you want. from 1/2" to 2' or more in diamater.
X 2 on the SKS. Good all around battle proven weapon. Enough fire power and Capable of doing what you need it to do. If you have ever tried to kill a deer with a 22 you would know what i mean.
The west was not won with a 22

 

[grumpy_old_man]

Before this thread goes down the pooper to answer your question...
PVC pipe. Fill it full of whatever. glue the ends on and bury it where ever. Throw in a dessicant bag to cover any condensation. Water proof, cheap, Get it at any hardware store or plumbing supply place. Will hold and keep anything you can fit in. You can get PVC pipe in any diamater you want. from 1/2" to 2' or more in diamater.
X 2 on the SKS. Good all around battle proven weapon. Enough fire power and Capable of doing what you need it to do. If you have ever tried to kill a deer with a 22 you would know what i mean.
The west was not won with a 22

Dang' Tommy, you must have worse insomnia than I've been having from the time stamp on your post!

Yep, I guess it all comes down to philosophy of use. After another evening mulling it all over, if the point is a full rekit after loss of your primary you can't do it with one longarm - but if its enough to get you going again, then the SKS or Mosin is the way to go, particularly if you're looking at defensive use (which I am - if bad things come, having a gun is the first step to winning a gunfight...). I favor the SKS myself, just need to find one that's been "bubba'd" already. As of now I keep a bail out kit packed with AR/Glock/870 in as "not a gun case" looking gun case as I could manage along with a lot of other goodies in a very civvy lookin' ruck just in case. Also have one ammo can set aside with a mix of 5.56mm, 9mm, 12ga that goes with the bug out kit.

Already went down the PVC route back during AWB 1.0 and it does work. Thanks for putting the details in though - this isn't just for me but anyone else who is thinking along these lines. Additional to the PVC tube around the whole kit, I'd add a VCI bag around the actual guns too. Stocked on those in December and was creeped out to see that they were gone by January. Lots of other people thinking this way too. Right now my only rekit is sidearm/personal stuff so that needs work.

Best,
Grumpy
PS Yeah, not the greatest idea for a thread on my part but I've got too many eggs in one basket right now, if you know what I mean and it got me to thinking....

 

[JRedHorse]

Grumpy my choice for bug out gun is...

deleted.

 

[PigBat]

Sticking just to the "which rifle" topic:

I'll extend Tailgunner's Savage 24 suggestion a bit further. I believe there is much to be said for one of the switch-barrel rifle/shotgun combos.

Something like the Rossi or H&R / NEF single-shot with 3 barrels in .22LR, 12 gauge, and whatever CF rifle cartridge you think will be easiest to come by.

It would stay under budget, and since it disassembles, the stocked receiver and all 3 barrels will fit easily into a nondescript backpack. Add more barrels if you like, but 3 would cover all the bases.

 

[Tommygunner]

LOL No insomnia. Last night was my friday. Got thru hell week. 4 12.5 hour days. Now off for 8 days. Yay. I work rotating shifts.
Re the SK:. There is a country in Southeast Aisa that did pretty well using the SKS to win their war. I have a deep respect for those old battle weapons.
Good news is, prices on SKS seem to be coming down. But where I live they are hard to find. If you can find one under 400 I would buy it. If in good condition. Been seeing them sell on GB from 400 -500. Crazy high prices for SKS tho.
I bought a unissued Yugo SKS last summer for 325. and i thought i paid a little too much for it. Untill I shot it. Even the With battle sights it is a better shooter than my Mini 30 with a scope, using Tula ammo. It holds nice tight groups.
I really like my new SKS. It can be loaded with stripper clips almost as fast as you can slam a mag in my Mini. SKS is real high on my SHTF weapon list. Not worried about noise. If i want to be quiet i will use a Bow or Knife.