Perfect Union banner
1 - 18 of 18 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
540 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So I have a new Mini and want to sqeeze as much accuracy as possible. After fire lapping with Mike's kit I proceed to "break in" the barrel.
Used a 20" Dewey plastic coated cleaning rod and a Dewey muzzel guide.
So I'm in a rush (first mistake) and figure I'll use JB paste to speed it up. Lots of strokes of the rod between shots!- like 50 maybe? (gotta get is really clean!)
So near the end of all this I notice that the patches are going in alot easier. Oh well, just keep going.
When I'm all done I'm looking at the end of the cleaning rod and for about an inch behind the jag all the plastic is worn off and all I see is nice shiney, polised steel. UGH! Upon closer examination of the end of the muzzel there isn't much left of the lands of the last 1/4 inch or so. Pull a 22LR bullet to slug it and it goes really easy in.
Shot it and the groups are double that of my ranch rifle that has no modifcations.
So due to my impatience and closed mindedness, I pretty much toasted my barrel.
The good news is that I plan to have the smitty shorten is by 2" just to see how is looks and handles - who knows, maybe it will shoot good too.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
535 Posts
Are you sure it was the JB paste and not the fire lapping that caused all of the damage. If fire lapping is such a great process why don't you hear the BR guys talking it up? I don't hear them endorsing it at all.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,786 Posts
OOHH djskit! I feel for ya dude. That Jb paste is an abrasive. You can run 500 patches thru your bore, and they will always be black! The black is removed steel.

We appreciate your post on this as it will keep someone else from making the same mistake.

If cutting your barrel dosen't help, gunparts.com has a replacement barrel for about $60, or even better a good excuse to get a shielen.

If misery likes company, here is another guy in your same boat. http://scripts.xtremeaccuracy.com/Archive....ames/read/32939

dvdstdg, The BR dudes have premium match barrels. They have already been hand laped. If they get a cheeper match barrel, they hand lap it. Personally it looks like a pain to me with filling the bore with hot lead, removing slug, imbedding with grit, trying to shove it back in etc. It wasn't the firelaping that ruined the muzzle, as the grit is removed from the chamber end of the bore, and is less as it moves down the barrel. The muzzle is the least affected, as it should be.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
535 Posts
This pretty much sums it up:

"However, he also concedes that fire lapping INCREASES THE DIAMETER OF THE THROAT. And given that most all throats are cut larger than they should be, especially from factories, my contention is that while you may make temporary improvement in accuracy fire lapping existing barrels, you also wipe out potentially thousands of rounds of throat life by further enlarging it fire lapping.

I did a little demonstration Memorial Day Weekend, 2002, when visitors were here. I took a standard .30/30 factory barrel, had them look at the throat through the bore scope, then shot only a dozen, 12, rounds of fire lapping ammo through it, and had them look at it through the scope again. A dozen rounds does a heck of a lot of damage to an existing throat unless you are using very fine grits. But you have to run a lot of fine grit through a barrel to make any significant improvement, and by the time you run enough rounds through the barrel, you will still end up ruining an existing throat. So don't do it." I found this by searching on Google with the following string: fire lapping +barrel
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
540 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Guess I didn't make my point clear:
The only reason I mention the JB was that it takes alot of heavy strokes with the rod to use.
When I slugged the barrel after the fire lapping the muzzel was still tight.
I'm absolutley positive it was neither the JB nor the lapping that did it but IMPROPERLY USING the steel rod and grinding against the lands.
The poblem was the Dewey rod! Its diamater is just slightly LARGER than the .22 jag. Should be the other way around! They muzzel guide, although designed just for the mini, didn't help as much as it should. If I would have been more careful and noticed the plastic rubbing off the rod sooner, I could have avoided mishap.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14 Posts
FYI -

For cleaning, I've started using the Bore Snakes in 7mm, .30cal, and .22 cal. They are great and get the bore shiny in just 2-3 passes. Now if they would make one in .45cal I'd be set.

Maybe not the right thread but it got me thinking about it.

thanks,
lostcajunboy
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
I think it's perfectly appropriate. Bore snakes and other pull throughs are a lot easier on the muzzle. Especially on guns that you can't clean from the breech end with a rod.

Hoppes and Uncle mikes makes 'em in .45; also 50-54 and shotgun.

:usa:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14 Posts
Thanks Charlie - I'll be on the look out for the .45 - the local Academy Sports doesn't carry it.

lostcajunboy
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,786 Posts
I use an Uncle Mikes Tactical vinal coated cable. You can also use a weedwacker mono with a slip knot in the end to pull patches thru. I use em for my 10/22s as the cable, and end wont come out the side of the small receiver.

Lostcajunboy, I have seen the bore snakes in academy, how do they work? don't they get nasty quick when you put copper cleaner on em? How long do they last?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14 Posts
cajungeo,

Actually you have given me a wonderful new idea (the weedwacker mono). Sounds like a "patent-able" idea.

I have only recently started using the bore-snakes. I take a dry rag and make sure the snake has a lot of fresh RemOil and pull it through the rag. I then lay it out and let it dry.

As far as wear - the only report I have is that the 7mm snake for my .280 has been used for around 50 pass-throughs and the brass portion is still not flatten - s/n/b for the price though. The .30 and .22 only have minimal use.

Tis a shame about the LC Academy Manager - suicide. He had just transferred from TX.

lostcajunboy
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
Hi bushwack,

I'm a big fan of all pull throughs.

Thanks for the url. I've heard great things about the Patch Worm. I just ordered two. You can't beat the low price of the worm and shipping. It'll probably make me sorry I bought my Otis pull through.
:usa:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
164 Posts
All military issue cleaning rods that I have seen are steel.Hmmmm....I agree that steel isn't the best, but is it that damaging?I bought a dewey or something coated rod for $10 and the coating was being shaved off the first time I used it.
I haven't liked bore snakes too much.They are good for a quick field cleaning, but I still need a rod and jag for a good cleaning.How are you using the bore snakes as far a solvent and times thru the barrel?Maybe I am not doing it right.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
I've used Dewey coated rods through the breech with a rod guide that's like a bolt with a hole through it. I never had the coating scraped off. The real anal people say that you shouldn't pull the brush back through the muzzle since it will cause wear. I tried using a rod through the breech and then unscrewing the brush after it left the muzzle. A real PITA.

Using a pull through I pull a couple of Hoppes No. 9 soaked patches through from breech to muzzle to get rid of the loose carbon etc. Then a dry one. Then one wet with Shooter's Choice or Hoppes copper remover. Let sit for 15 minutes or so, then another wet one and then pull through a bronze brush twice. Let set same time. Then a few dry ones 'till not too dirty. Then another copper solvent patch, let set same time. Then a dry one and see if it's clean. Repeat with brush if necessary; usually not.

Then a wet one with No 9 to get rid of last of copper solvent. A couple of dry, one with oil, then another dry one.

Then a fluffy mop in the chamber to remove any oil.

I always store my long guns muzzle down so any oil or solvent won't get in the action or soak the wood.

The waiting may be a pain for some, but I have a Midway plastic rifle vise clamped in a Stanley Work Mate in the dining area. I laid a board across bottom rungs of the Workmate with a Plano drawer type tackle box on each side. I keep tools and cleaning supplies in these. It's handy and they weight the Workmate so it's rock solid when working on the gun.

The Midway vice is also good for handguns. You can put them in the clamp with the barrel facing backwards.

I only smoke in the kitchen next to the exhaust fan so I spend lots of time going back and forth. Pulling through a patch or brush as I pass the gun is no hassle.

One of the benefits of being single. :ar15:
:usa:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,786 Posts
Tis a shame about the LC Academy Manager - suicide. He had just transferred from TX.
Now I hadn't heard this. Did he come from Beaumont?

I agree that steel isn't the best, but is it that damaging?
Yep it is. The thing a rod does is rubs on the crown. A worn or damaged crown, will affect accuracy in a big way. Now if ya use a bore guide, it protects the crown. I have a muzzle brake so I can't use a bore guide. So a pull thru type like the uncle mikes vinal coated cable or weedwacker line cleans, and dosen't impact the muzzle crown. It works for me. ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
804 Posts
Cajungeo,
One of the gunsmiths that I know sold me a steel cleaning rod with a bore guide attached, and said I dould use it to clean the bore even though I have the same muzzlebreak that you do. I was warned of course not to use an aluminum rod But a stainless steel one. I also do a quick clean with a "BoreSnake" when I finish shooting.
 
1 - 18 of 18 Posts
Top