[dotocomo]

Whats your opinion on deer hunting on smaller type deer with .223 ruger 14's?

I have been told by good hunters that a .223 is OK as long as the shots are well placed...typically head shots are better.

or should i go ahead and buy say a cheap second hand bolt action .308 with sights as this would be more humane and better suited.

(am hunting in north island of New Zealand in Lake Taupo region)

Am thinking of going with a friend deer and varmint hunting so am thinking a combination of both rifles been carried by us will ensure small game get the .223 and the larger game (if we are lucky!) get the .308

we may even come across some wild bore pigs as well

Remember i dont have that much money but own a mini 14 and want a cheap .308, or should i wait and get a proper well accurate more expensive .308 or say Ruger .270? (i like the .270 but is out of my price range unless I get a cheap second hand version)

Last question, is it OK to buy an 'accurate' second hand hunting rifle or should i go new?


thanks for any comments

 

[gutpile]

can a deer be taken with a .223? yes. is it the best choice? no.
i have been hunting deer since 1976 and after taking 30 of the critters i feel i can give a qualified opinion to you. if you can keep your shots at around 100 yards the .223 will work, IF you can place your bullets properly, i.e. head or lungs. and IF you use well constructed bullets , (not varmint bullets), use a premium bullet like a nosler. my main deer rifle is a a remington 700 .270, i also use a 30-30. if you are on a budget you might see if you can find a surplus enfield in .303, i have owned several of them in the past and they are usually good shooters and can be picked up around here for around a hundred bucks, i have one now that was made by the long branch arsenal in canada and it was in 'unissued condition' when i bought it. and it will give me 2" groups with the battle sights, not bad for a hundred dollar rifle. keep in mind that you owe the deer a quick and humane death, the mini-14 will do the job, i have used them for deer myself, but there are better choices out there, because the bullet makers dont consider a .223 as a big game round and dont load big game rounds for it, so the nosler loads that i recommended would have to be handloaded, good luck....

 

[Greg1911]

I don't know what the gun selection is like around your area but around here you can get a Yugoslavian SKS rifle for around $120 which shoots a heavier round 7.62x39 I think that would make a good close range deer gun.

 

[mtnwatcher]

hey Dotocomo,

i heard recently from a New Zealander that they had total gun control in New Zealand since some nut wild postal on a ferry some time ago. what's the real deal over there?

 

[cajungeo]

mini-14 is too small to reliably put down a deer or wild boar. Go with your first instinct get a .308 bolt gun for the big game. A used bolt gun is a good buy as most hunters don't shoot em much. Save the mini for the varmints.

 

[dotocomo]

thanks for all your replies!

mtnwatcher: the gun laws in NZ are still relatively relaxed when compared to other countries, we still have had our spate of armed offenders and it is on the rise (usaully drug, illness or family related)

the point being that i got my licencse at xmas in 4 weeks or so

what it means is that i can buy any type of rifle or shotgun with restrictions

rules:

.22 (max mag 15 shots)

centrefire (max mag 7 shots, no folding stock, no military attcahments e.g. bayonet)

shotgun (max mag 5 shots)

and you can no longer import military rifles (my mini 14's was one of the last ones, although you can still own them)

you can get pistols and military rifles but these are higer enddorsements, and take 6-12 months to get each time and have to be kept in a safe

NZ is a farming nation so we are still liberal on gun laws (Australia has banned semi auto's!)

Greg1911: i looked at one of those SKS's and they go for about $300 USD in NZ (probably going to get a .303 or .308 bolt action) may collect it later as part of my collection!

gutpile: like your idea and will look into .303 or .308, what rifles are you speaking of in particular, are you meaning 1940's era Mark 1 Type 4 etc etc Enfield military rifles?

if you are you can pick up a good one for $200 USD in NZ

cajungeo: i think your right and will go with your advice, either .303 or .308 bolt action

 

[dotocomo]

gutpile: just to get this straight before i buy a second rifle in NZ in May, are you saying that you can hunt quite effectively say within 100 metres with a .303/.308 iron sight military Enfield, say 1940's rifle?

If so that is good news because this is what i am planning to buy, and let me know what models you prefer as NZ has a big selection of these types of rifles.

 

[bushwack]

dotocomo---I have a friend who used a sporterized .303 Enfield to hunt deer with for years before he bought an M1A in .308, He'd still be using it except he likes the "Cool" factor the M1A gives him. The old Enfield did kick though as I remember.

Good shooting
Bushwack

 

[Aldo]

You might look into a .308 Enfield Mk3.They were made in India in the 60-70's on beefed up recivers.Most people call them a Ishy because they were made at the Ishpore arsenal.Nice strong rifles,but the stock mag that comes with the rifle holds 12 rounds of 7.62X51.Shot mine alot and very smooth ,fast ,and accurate bolt rifle.There are a few websites deticated to them. As always please forgive my bad spelling.Aldo

 

[Billc]

I'v been hunting, and still do, with a Springfield Mdl l903 for 50 years and used the iron (as issued) sight for some time. Now rechanbered to .300 Win Mag. For downright utility the old military are hard to beat--just not always "pretty" or "cool". Functional is the word. Who ever heard of a pretty shovel?

I suppose whether gun laws are liberal or stringent is a matter of perspective. It is to be fervently hoped those of the U.S. are never as "liberal" as those of NZ--though that is where we are headed......

Best to Ya, Bill in Montana

 

[gutpile]

any of the old enfields would do the job for you, the australian lithgow or the no.4 would be my choice, depends on whether you are going to scope it or not, the no.4 is easier to scope than the lithgow model because there are bases made for it, talk to your dealer about the features. and yes the .303 is perfect for short to medium range hunting. my No. 4 has a battle sight that flips up with a smaller peep, and is graduated from 200 out to 800 yards. the 800 yard setting is unrealistic for hunting purposes, but the 200 yard zero is dead on from 100 to 225 yards.

 

[Ridge Runner]

Well, I've taken probably 100 smallish whitetails with a 223, they work if you use common sense and couple that with good marksmanship. Ultramax is factory reloading 223 ammo using the 60 gr. nosler partition. the best way to go for light shinned medium game with the 223.
RR

 

[PPosey]

Winchester has a Power point plus round with a little more juice that I have used to take two deer. They worked well but both were perfect shots and did not hit a heavy bone, the power point seems to be a good deer bullet in all calibers, I do not set out to hunt deer with the 223 though, both were oportunity shots and the conditions were perfect. During deer seasion though I keep a 5 round clip loaded with them in my pocket if I am out with the mini.

 

[dotocomo]

am going to follow all your advice and have spoke to my Auckland gunshop and they can sell me a range of sporterised enfields .303 for about $150-250 USD which seems like a bargain to me

its gonna be a lot of fun down at the range and in the bush next week when i go back for my holiday in NZ!

 

[gutpile]

us know what you get and how it all turns out, we wanna know!!
the Enfield that i have now started out a from the Canadian Long Branch Arsenal. i replaced the wood with a synthetic stock, it makes a real nice sporter and cut down on some of the weight.
if you are new to Enfields you might have your dealer help you pick out a nice one, remember the no.4's are easier to mount a scope on than the Austrailian Lithgows. if you arent interested in a scope then you can take your pick of any of the models, good luck.

 

[BigUglyOne]

Dotocomo,

Don't forget the shotgun in all this ... Easily good out to a hundred yards and throws a 1 oz chunk of lead, a good slug gun will run a couple hundred, new.

:usa:

 

[gunner.223]

Hey Dotocomo
i'm in Wellington and do most of my hunting in the Taraura ranges,if your after a cheap .308 theres alot of FR8's floating around the NZ gunshops,very cheap bolt action.If i were you i would keep the Mini 14 for the Goats,as i've heard theres alot of them up where your going to hunt,hope you have a good shoot,cheers,gunner:ar15: :2guns: :rapid: