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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Crooked/canted/tilted Gas Block

Hey Mini-Lovers...

I recently picked up my new 582 series Mini Thirty a few weeks ago. Been to the range twice and I am loving it!! Problem... After cleaning her the first time, I lined up a small Magpul Pic rail on the bottom of my stock and I realized something. My gas block is canted!! Crooked!! Tilted!! Just so slightly (maybe like 5-10 degrees) but enough for me to notice. It still shoots well. I went back to my range today and looked at two Mini 14s they had for rent. Both of them had the same cant, making me think maybe it might be normal (??). Anyone else notice this on theirs?? Should I send it in to Ruger to look at?? I realize I may be getting just a bit OCD with it but spending money on a new product, you kinda want it to be perfect. I mean it seems to be shooting well. Really well actually. I was able to get 1" groups at 25 yards which I know may not sound all that impressive, but I'm new to long gun shooting and I wasn't using a bipod or rest. Just shooting with my elbows on the counter trying to hold as still as possible. I'm looking forward to getting much better with practice and training.

What do you guys think?? I tried taking a photo of this... hope you guys can see what I'm seeing.
 

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Are you lining up the rail on the mold line on the stock?

If so - the mold line itself may not be centered or the stock may not be level at the point the rail is placed.

If two other Minis are the same - I wouldn't worry about it.

Try looking over the front sight wings and the rear sight ears and see if the gas block seems canted in relation to the sights. The sights are more likely to be straight than the line on the stock.

YMMV
 

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appears it is a bit off-center, but if function and shooting is ok leave it. at least until you can have a smith check it.
there is a bit of side play in the pipe, block and barrel fit-up possible. seems that's the cause of this. retourqing and properly spaceing the block is a tricky process but can be done by a knowledgeable mini owner.
 

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appears it is a bit off-center, but if function and shooting is ok leave it. at least until you can have a smith check it.
there is a bit of side play in the pipe, block and barrel fit-up possible. seems that's the cause of this. retourqing and properly spaceing the block is a tricky process but can be done by a knowledgeable mini owner.
Great Advice marlin 45, especially if your not very familiar with the mini or are not
mechanically inclined!
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks for the replies...

Took her down to get a closer look. A couple of things...

I undid the screws holding the gas block down (really hope I didn't screw myself by voiding any warranty by doing so) and first thing I noticed was that my screws were not staked as a few members have mentioned them to be. Came out fairly smoothly actually.

Upon removing the screws, I made sure to hold the block in place and then wiggled it to see if there was any side-to-side play, as one of you suggested may be the case. Not here. It fit pretty firmly.

Gently lifted and wiped down the block, bushing, and the barrel. Laid the barrel down on my table top which I checked to be level, and visually I can see that the hole drilled for the gas block is a bit off center - by mm's. Almost as if it were drilled in on angle.

So... now knowing all that, I'm not even sure if there's anything Ruger would be able to do to fix something like this. Or even if being slightly off center would even warrant any work at all. I'm thinking the only remedy would be swapping out the barrel all together... Would Ruger even consider this?? Am I being too anal??

Thoughts?? Suggestions?? I mean it shoots well so far and I hate the idea of having to send it out and being without it for several weeks (or however long it takes them to deal with these things), but it is a brand new rifle. Not a high priced AR but it wasn't exactly cheap either. I'm so torn!! :wacko:
 

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"I went back to my range today and looked at two Mini 14s they had for rent. Both of them had the same cant, making me think maybe it might be normal (??)."

If more than one rifle has the same cant - I really wouldn't worry about it. Only if the rifle can't be sighted in without excessive rear sight adjustment or has functioning problems.

More rifles than people know have "canted" sights - results from the barrel not being perfectly centered when installed.

Opposite of the above. I once had a M1A with a Douglas match barrel - accurate rifle - front sight was perfectly straight and the barrel was perfectly installed. But the splines(?) for the gas cylinder was not timed properly and the gas cylinder was noticeably canted. Rifle functioned fine.

On a number of Springfield 03s and 03A3s - the front sight is canted slightly - within military specs.

Note that the M1 Garands and M14/M1A have front sights that can be adjusted for windage - most 03s too. This is because the barrels are not always straight or the sight bases or gas cylinders may be slightly off. This feature might be useful for the Minis - helps when the windage adjustment runs out on the rear sight (as has been reported by some Mini shooters) but would make the rifle more expensive.

The original M16s - the FSBs on many are slightly canted. IIRC this was by design but I don't remember why. This is not the same as one big time AR maker which had a run of barrels with badly canted FSBs - that was a manufacturing problem.

YMMV
 

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I feel your pain. I have a new 582 ranch rifle and I've noticed my slide assembly (op rod) is warped/ bent. I also have a scratch that "digs" in to the barrel a result of the handguard clip.

Maybe your like me and expect things to line up and be good out of the box. I'll check my rifle later and let you know if it's off like yours.

Wish I could offer better help.
 

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having the gas block canted is not correct

I realize I may be getting just a bit OCD with it but spending money on a new product, you kinda want it to be perfect.
you have every right to get the rifle that Ruger designed it to be. I don't think anywhere in the Ruger mini specs is there a tolerance that allows for the gas block to be canted because the gas port hole in the barrel was drilled at a incorrect angle.

If that were my mini I would return it to Ruger for repair, on there dime. Call them.
Ruger has been doing pretty good lately with a 2-3 week turn around on repairs.

I will respectfully disagree with some of the other posts, the gas block is not supposed to be canted, especially if as you say you can visually see that the gas port hole drilled in the barrel is at an angle.
Having a canted gas block because the gas port hole in the barrel was drilled incorrectly is not the same as having a canted front sight. The front sight has no mechanical function, the gas block does. The gas block, and it's alignment, is integral to the cycling and function of the rifle.

One issue, the more minor one, is stock fit on the gas block.
The stock and forearm liner is made to fit the gas block evenly, if the fit is uneven because the gas block is canted it will exert uneven pressure on the gas block and therefore uneven pressure on the barrel. That never has been a good thing for accuracy. Uneven pressure on the barrel will most likely show up as a stringing of shots as the barrel gets hot. 25 yards is not a long enough range to have that become evident. Uneven pressure is not the same as putting pressure on a barrel at a certain point to enhance accuracy like on a bolt rifle.

The second more important issue is the op rod cycling onto the gas block and gas pipe during operation. The op rod is designed to be in alignment with the gas block during cycling, having the gas block canted is not correct. The only things aligning the op rod to the gas block is the forearm liner in the stock and the angle on the end of the gas pipe. It may cycle fine now because of the design but my guess is that down the road you are going to be seeing uneven wear as the op rod compensates for the misalignment against the gas pipe. It may show up in wear on one side of the gas pipe or on one side of the forearm liner. If the misalignment makes the op rod cant as well to compensate for the canted gas block then when the op rod seats to the gas block you may get uneven wear on the op rod itself and all moving parts it comes into contact with during cycling.

The other thing is that the gas block screws were not staked. I have never seen a mini that did not have the screws staked from the factory and unless Ruger has changed it's 40 years assembly process on the mini that is reason enough to return the mini to Ruger. The un-staked screws will eventually loosen up and most likely fall out. I have removed a lot of gas block screws and the staking holds them into place, without staking they eventually just shoot loose.
The fact that the screws are not staked and the gas block is canted seems to me like yours is a mini that was not supposed to ship but slipped through quality control and got shipped instead of being returned to assembly to be corrected.
Unfortunately it seems as though the consumer is now the quality control department at Ruger.

You have three issues really, the first two are related.
1. the gas block is canted, that is the symptom not the cause.
2. The cause of the gas block being canted is the incorrect angle of the
gas port hole drilled in the barrel. It is supposed to be drilled at a true 90 degrees to the barrel.
3. The gas block screws are not staked.

How would Ruger fix it? Most likely they will re-barrel it and fit a new bolt.
You deserve to have a mini that is made correctly to specs.

Just curious, but in one of your picture what are the marks on the top of the gas block screws? letters? lines?

that is my $.02,

Best o' Luck
 

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you're right bear - pressure on the forend caused by a canted or unevenly torqued block is detrimental to accuracy.
unevenly torqued is what I should have stated more clearly.
I tend to agree - maybe the rifle should be returned - but I'm unsure how ruger cs would see the fact that the block screws have been removed and replaced.
 

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you're right bear - pressure on the forend caused by a canted or unevenly torqued block is detrimental to accuracy.
unevenly torqued is what I should have stated more clearly.
I tend to agree - maybe the rifle should be returned - but I'm unsure how ruger cs would see the fact that the block screws have been removed and replaced.
IMHO - If the gas port hole is crooked - Ruger CS should have nothing to say.

YMMV
 

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I also noticed that the last Mini-14 (582 series) I worked on, swapping out the gas bushing and retorquing the gas block screws (with excellent advice from Walkingbear) that the gas block screws came out as if they were never staked compared to previous minis. I found it surprising that the screws didn't "break" free when removed but merely unscrewed. I used copious amounts of blue thread lock when reinstalling them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Thanks everyone for their responses. At first, I figured I'd keep it since it is shooting well, I think, and it is a "tool" not a fragile piece of artwork that I undoubtably will bang up eventually (cause I'm a bit of an idiot and a klutz sometimes - I'll still probably cry the first scratch I put on it), but after Walkenbear's very thorough response (thank you sincerely btw) and others, I've decided I will contact Ruger and have it sent back. As long as they don't send back something worse... why not right?? Hopefully they will send back a new barrel with a proper true 90 degree gas port hole. And besides... I figure I should send it back now while its still in its stock condition before I start doing all my planned mods. Which are many...one of which is to cut and crown the barrel to 16.5" and install a Mo-Reaper.

The other thing is that the gas block screws were not staked. I have never seen a mini that did not have the screws staked from the factory and unless Ruger has changed it's 40 years assembly process on the mini that is reason enough to return the mini to Ruger.
I'm definitely mentioning how the screws weren't staked. Could it be that the screws may be shorter and don't stick out the top of holes that they didn't stake them?? I haven't look at too many other Minis but staking involve hitting the screws to "crimp" the threads right?? Does the staking result in a mark on the top section of the gas block as well?? (that rounded piece that the screws go into) Could someone post a photo of what the staked screws should look like just so I have a better idea??

Unfortunately it seems as though the consumer is now the quality control department at Ruger.
I'm reading more and more stories of people sending their guns in for some kind of service. I'm also hearing how great Ruger's CS is and how quick they are. I'm hoping for great and quick in this case too...

Just curious, but in one of your picture what are the marks on the top of the gas block screws? letters? lines?
It was just some residue I didn't wipe off properly. Weird cause it was about symmetrical on all four screws.

I tend to agree - maybe the rifle should be returned - but I'm unsure how ruger cs would see the fact that the block screws have been removed and replaced.
Are we not supposed to remove them?? With so many people using scout rails and the such, I thought that was ok?? Please tell me I didn't screw myself here...

Again thanks everyone for your thoughts and advise. I only joined this forum a few days ago and you guys have already helped me out a bunch!!

BTW... I read on here about firing pins and such so I'm gonna ask for an extra one to be fitted for mine as well. Never hurts to have a back up!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
It's Back!!!

Finally got my Mini Thirty back from Ruger last night!! Turns out they only "repaired" the barrel. I assume they may have just removed the barrel and then re-screwed it into the receiver and re-torqued it so the gas port is more towards the center. But... now instead of it canted to the left, it is now just a smidge to the right. Nothing is ever perfect right?? ehh... that's ok. It's definitely better that it was before. One other thing I did notice was since they were able to turn the barrel further to align the gas port, this left the front sight canted... I see some tool markings on the sight showing that they tried to get that back in alignment. Didn't quite do the job completely. Not all that concerned about it as I plan on installing a Mo-Reaper with front sight anyway. But I'll leave it as is for now.

One negative. (well two actually) I had sent it in with a letter explaining my situation and requesting an extra firing pin be fitted. No response was given. It was just sent back with a no charge "invoice" stating Repaired Barrel and Replaced Firing pin. No extra pin was included... I even wrote "let me know if there is a charge for it" as I didn't expect anything new for free, just wanted to get an extra firing pin. Nope. Didn't even refer to it. They did however throw in a complimentary ruger cleaning cloth and thanked me for being a customer. woo hoo... -_-

Gonna try to get it to the range tomorrow and see how it shoots now. Leaving it stock. Can't wait to start installing all these goodies I've got for it!! :D
 

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Yeah, I don't return guns for aestetic reasons. Those kind of problems should be caught on inspection at time of purchase. If it aint broke, don't fix it! I would only return a mini for function problems (which I did one time). My problem was an op-rod spring that went limp after 25 years. I'm surprized they even gave me a free repair after all that time!
 

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I couldn't see the original problem (?) from the pictures, mass produced firearm that it is, shoots good, cycles okay, like buying a new car and measuring door gap with a caliper, Maserati..yeah maybe, F150 Ford..mm maybe not. Glad you got it "fixed", though, good deal.
 

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I feel your pain. I have a new 582 ranch rifle and I've noticed my slide assembly (op rod) is warped/ bent. I also have a scratch that "digs" in to the barrel a result of the handguard clip.
I'd like to see pictures of that OP rod... if you got any handy, or can.

Everyone has the scratch that "digs" in to the barrel. Its just a pressure clip that holds the handguard on there. If you replace it with the OEM, or Choate it slips on the same place and you don't see it, unless you remove it.

When I put my UltiMAK on, it anchors in a different spot, up further on the barrel, with clamp that screws on. New marks from screwing on a clamp and as its angular... the OP rod dings the corner of it (should say that past tense). It wore down all its going to, never interfered with function.

It bugged me at first, but then I thought... why on Earth am I trying to keep a tool spotless. I just want it clean and running well. Sure, I want it to look nice and I think she does, even with her dings. But, then I don't know anyone who's regular range gun doesn't have dings.

You can see some of my rub marks and that scratch on the barrel here.

NOTE: The Hogue is no longer on my rifle. After 2 misfits, I'm quite happy with the OEM synthetic.
 

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Ruger has a solid repair or replace policy. If nothing else it's worth a free call to their 1-800 if you've got the time to spare.

Thanks for the replies...

Took her down to get a closer look. A couple of things...

I undid the screws holding the gas block down (really hope I didn't screw myself by voiding any warranty by doing so) and first thing I noticed was that my screws were not staked as a few members have mentioned them to be. Came out fairly smoothly actually.

Upon removing the screws, I made sure to hold the block in place and then wiggled it to see if there was any side-to-side play, as one of you suggested may be the case. Not here. It fit pretty firmly.

Gently lifted and wiped down the block, bushing, and the barrel. Laid the barrel down on my table top which I checked to be level, and visually I can see that the hole drilled for the gas block is a bit off center - by mm's. Almost as if it were drilled in on angle.

So... now knowing all that, I'm not even sure if there's anything Ruger would be able to do to fix something like this. Or even if being slightly off center would even warrant any work at all. I'm thinking the only remedy would be swapping out the barrel all together... Would Ruger even consider this?? Am I being too anal??

Thoughts?? Suggestions?? I mean it shoots well so far and I hate the idea of having to send it out and being without it for several weeks (or however long it takes them to deal with these things), but it is a brand new rifle. Not a high priced AR but it wasn't exactly cheap either. I'm so torn!! :wacko:
 

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I'd like to see pictures of that OP rod... if you got any handy, or can.

Everyone has the scratch that "digs" in to the barrel. Its just a pressure clip that holds the handguard on there. If you replace it with the OEM, or Choate it slips on the same place and you don't see it, unless you remove it.

When I put my UltiMAK on, it anchors in a different spot, up further on the barrel, with clamp that screws on. New marks from screwing on a clamp and as its angular... the OP rod dings the corner of it (should say that past tense). It wore down all its going to, never interfered with function.

It bugged me at first, but then I thought... why on Earth am I trying to keep a tool spotless. I just want it clean and running well. Sure, I want it to look nice and I think she does, even with her dings. But, then I don't know anyone who's regular range gun doesn't have dings.

You can see some of my rub marks and that scratch on the barrel here.

NOTE: The Hogue is no longer on my rifle. After 2 misfits, I'm quite happy with the OEM synthetic.
How do you like that ultimak?
 
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