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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Finally, some of the good guys step up to the plate...
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http://foxnews.com/story/0,2933,48963,00.html

County Closes Bank Account to Protest Handling of Boy Scouts

AUBURN, N.Y. - The Cayuga County legislature decided to close its $3.8 million account with HSBC Bank USA after the company shut its doors to local Boy Scout meetings because of the group's ban on gay leaders.

The county council voted 14-1 Tuesday night without dispute to withdraw its money from the bank.

"I hope it sends a message to the bank that if they want to fight with the national Boy Scout organization, go right ahead and do it. But they should not just single out the local group and discriminate against them," said county lawmaker Herbert Marshall.

"Our local Boy Scout group is an asset to the community," he said.

Earlier this month, bank officials told the local Boy Scouts chapter that it could no longer use the building as a meeting place after June 30 because the national organization's policy of excluding gay leaders conflicts with the company's commitment to diversity.

HSBC spokesman Kathleen Rizzo Young said Wednesday that the bank did not intend to change its position. She declined any further comment about the county's action, citing the bank's policy on customer confidentiality.

Young also stressed that HSBC has "a strong presence of community involvement and support" in the communities where it operates. "This has gotten a lot of attention ... but there is a bigger picture," she said.

The local council, with approximately 2,000 Scouts, has rented a 1,200-square-foot space in the bank on a month-to-month basis since 1993. It uses the space for administrative offices, a retail supply store and training room in the bank, Marshall said.

Cayuga lawmakers acknowledged that their protest action was purely symbolic and would have no financial impact on the corporation.

HSBC Bank USA, based in Buffalo, is the country's 11th largest holding company with $87.6 billion in assets. It has 420 branches in New York as well as 13 other branches in Florida, Pennsylvania and California and is a wholly-owned subsidiary of the London-based HSBC Holdings, with 6,500 offices in 78 countries.

Young said she was not aware of any other similar situations involving the bank.

"We are rarely in the landlord business. Most of our buildings do not have rentable space," she said.

Since the bank's decision, at least two Auburn churches and the Town of Throop also have pulled their money - totaling about $752,000 - from HSBC.

On Thursday, Auburn city lawmakers will consider a similar move, but Mayor Melina Carnicelli said she would vote against such action. The city has between $5 million and $10 million in HSBC.

She called it "blatantly inappropriate" for "two business reasons." First, she sees the situation as a landlord-tenant dispute. More importantly, she said the city should not arbitrarily decide to withdraw millions of dollars without studying the financial ramifications for the city and its taxpayers.

The groundswell of local support has been overwhelming, said Don Grillo, the local council's executive director.

"We're not going to put them out of business, but I think people have felt very strongly to show their concern for the well-being of Scouting," Grillo said.

Gregg Shields, a spokesman for the National Council of the Boys Scouts of America, said similar situations involving the Scouts' policy have come up "here and there, now and then but by and large it has not been much of an issue."

Last year, Syracuse University told the Hiawatha Council that it could no longer hold its annual fund-raising dinner in the Carrier Dome. The dinner, which had been held in the Dome since 1984, features national prominent speakers and is attended by more than 2,000 Scouts.

Shields said only a few of the Scouts' 315 local councils do not own their own building. He said he thought it would be easy for the Cayuga council to find new accommodations, adding that Scouts do not plan to alter their stance.

"We will hold to our mission, which is to help young people build character and make ethical choices throughout their lives," Shields said.

The Associated Press contributed to this report.
 

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So, let me make sure I have got this straight. Herbert Marshall and the others are upset at the bank because it discriminated against the Boy Scouts. Hmmm.... I guess when the Boy Scouts discriminate against others it is OK?
 

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I'm not sure this thread should have been opened up here!! But then again it might be good for business!!! This thing could go on for months and our 927 members could all chime in!!! I guess I'll put in my 2 cents worth. I applaude both sides for standing up for their beliefs. How's that for remaining nuetral?!!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Yes, SaxonPig. That's called freedom. You may not recognize it, since you don't see it in America much any more; it's against the law.

I, for one, CANNOT understand why people don't understand this. If an organization wants to be "exclusionary" and not let in gays (or straights), blacks (or whites), Jews (or Gentiles), cripples (or able-bodied), Polacks (or English), THEN BY GOD, JESUS, AND F***ING MARY, THAT IS THEIR OWN G*****N BUISNESS!!!! It is none of the goobermint's affair, they should keep their big nose out of it, and if they want to post a big, engraved marble plaque over the front enterance that says "WE PROUDLY DISCRIMINATE", I will LOUDLY AND PROUDLY SUPPORT THEM!!!!

You may have seen a signature I have adopted on some forums: "I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - Voltaire
 

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250, Well said !! I wanted to put it in the right context but I stayed "neutral". That's not my character to stay neutral, just ask any person who knows me!! GHD
 

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Hey thar .250Savage ya got it right old son. I personally can't stand the sight of queers. They're a bunch of perverts, and while I understand they were born that way, I don't want to be in the same country with them. They are repulsive to me.
 

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I was in the scouts until I achieved the Eagle award. I am proud of that achievement and have always and still do support the decisions of the organization. It saddens me when I hear people bashing a group that is totally American made and something that we as Americans should be proud of. Sorry about the gays let them...

Jim
 

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Good Show .250 Savage,Old-Boy !!! All right,here is my 3 cents worth. I am an active Scoutmaster here in the Louisville,Ky. area.Also an Eagle Scout with 2-palms award,and various other adult scouter awards,etc. As far as I'm concerned,SAVAGE has it totally on target-i.e.,the BIG BROTHERISTS/ENVIRONMENTALIST WACKOS/SOCIALISTS/FORKED-TONGUED/PLASTIC BANANA BEUREAUCRATS HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO BUSINESS IN MY BUSINESS. Like one of our members has so eloquently put it-IT'S ABOUT FREEDOM,STUPID !!! INDIVIDUAL FREEDOM,a GOD given right,what this country was founded on by men far more concerned with individual freedom,and keeping government power in check,than is in evidence today. The Scouting movement teaches (and is one of the last bastions of) TRADITIONAL family values, SELF-RELIANCE,BIBLICAL BASED MORALITY. As long as I'm alive,there will be NO DEVIANTS in MY troop ! We should NEVER STAND for any gov't agency or person telling us (we the people) what we should accept or reject. :2guns:
 

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If the BSA wants to be a private organization, not accepting any public money or using public facilities, that is fine with me. As a private organization they have the right to make their own rules. The two things I don't like are 1: When the BSA wants to claim to be a private group so they can set membership guidelines but at the same time want to use public resources for their activities. I say you can't have it both ways. 2: When people or businesses choose to not be associated with the BSA because they are a restricted organization then people slam them and call them names and start spouting off about "freedom." Well, if the BSA has the freedom to make their own choices about how and with whom they will do business, then everybody else should have the right to not be involved with the BSA because of their policies.

Fair is fair.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
SPOUTING!!! How DARE you refer to my rant as "spouting"!!!

Seriously, tho, Saxon, good points all, but I honestly don't think you truly understand the real situation. I think this is a case much like the civil rights struggle during the '60's. Northeastern liberals castigated the Southerners for their supposed "racism", but they didn't like the blacks they knew, but loved them as a class. Southerners, on the other hand, liked individual blacks, but didn't like them as a race.

All of your points are valid, but only in the sterile environment of the laboratory. You are in Arkansas; I'd guess you don't get a whole lot of "flamers" in your neck of the woods. I am in Kali; you can't swing a dead cat... er, "humanely euthanized feline" without hitting a homosexual. They actively AND AGRESSIVELY pursue their agenda here, and it isn't nice. They want to get their lifestyle imprinted on the young minds as soon as possible, because like ol' Adolf said, "Give me a child for the first seven years, and he is mine." Ever heard of the children's books, "Heather has two mommies" and "Daddie's new roommate"?

Maybe it's just me, but I can't see anything good coming from homosexuals being alone in the woods with young boys. Sort of like a hetro male being alone in the woods with young GIRLS. Nothing inherently wrong, maybe, but it sure sounds like leaving the fox to guard the hen house to me...

And so far as your point of "When the BSA wants to claim to be a private group so they can set membership guidelines but at the same time want to use public resources for their activities. I say you can't have it both ways." Well, the queer pride parade runs every year here in San Diego, and it uses public streets, has them blocked off to thru traffic, cops are re-routed to enforce this as well as keeping them from being killed, revenue lost to local merchants, etc., etc., etc., ad nauseum... How is it that THEY seem to have it both ways?

Contrary to what you may believe about me, I do not now, nor have I ever, desired to kill, harm, harass, harange, or bully homosexuals. They (generally) cannot help what they are, any more than people can help what their skin color is (well, OK, Michael Jackson is outside those laws). No one wakes up one day and says "Gee! I guess I'll become a queer and be hated by roughly 90% of America!"

Where I have a major departure with the liberal/libertine/compassion train is when they try to paint homosexuality as mainstream, and try to brainwash our young. Our young are our future, and their upbringing should be under no one's influence but their parents. If Mom and Dad want to introduce deviant (yes, deviant; it CANNOT result in fertilization) sexuality to their pre-pubescent child, then that is their right; I don't believe The State should interfere except in cases of obvious, blatant abuse. It's tough enough growing up today without adding the added complication of telling young people there is nothing wrong with being queer (AIDS, no [natural] children, rejection by every major religion, Sodom and Gomorrah, etc., etc., etc.) while our schools should stay out of social engineering and stick with the three R's.
 

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SAXON, why do you think the BSA is using public resources for their program. I asked this on GB and never heard why. It is privately funded and run by and large by volunteers. I was not aware that schools by definition are public property, is this what you are referring to?

As far as their policy on gays, I don't see a problem with it. What organization is going to let OPENLY ADMITTING gay adults be in charge of or have in their care, youths. The Girl Scouts, 4H, church groups, DeMolay, I seriously doubt it. Those groups do it too, they just don't have the balls to say iot outloud.

twins...Eagle Scout and Cub Master
 

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Why should you worry about gays being with youths? Homosexual men are not pedophiles. Men who are sexually attracted to children are pedophiles and that's different from homosexuality, which is also not contagious, by the way. If you were not born gay, you are not going to become gay and nobody can talk you into it if you don't want it.

I understand that most Christians believe homsexuality to be sinful. Most people are also uncomfortable around gays. But some of the wild accusations and blanket indictments are just too much.

Back to the BSA, they do a lot of good work. But it is a restricted organization. I say that's fine, but that means they should not use taxpayer-funded campgrounds, meeting halls, etc. as those places are paid for by people denied membership in the group. On a public street for a parade or demonstration the rules are a little looser since it's a matter of free speech. Not so with regular meetings and events. Also, I think most of the gay groups admit straight people as members.

On the liberal agenda, no argument here. I live in Arkansas now, but I grew up in Fresno, California. I lived in CA from 1957 until I left in 1992 when it became obvious that I could not live there any longer and suffer the imperialist state.

The bottom line is that I don't hate or fear gays. I have known a few, and they have never tried to "convert" me nor have they followed children home at night. I think we have real enemies to deal with and expending energy worrying about gay people is a waste of time. They will never constitute more than maybe 5% of the population and for the most part (there are a few radicals as with all groups) they just want to be left alone and not victimized.
 

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When I see 2 gays walking down the street, GREAT, that's 2 more broads for me. Simple math.
The day I see a newborn baby slide out of some queer's ass, THAT'S the day I'll concede that homosexuality is "normal" and "mainstream."
It is an abomination of nature, and suicide (AIDS). So I say: "Get back in the closet, and stop trying to convince America's children that you are normal." Do your own thing, but please, stop the bull****. Putting yourselves in the spotlight is just making your life worse. Todays kids have enough insanity to deal with.
J2H
 

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Joe, homosexuals are born the same way as everyone else. But for some unknown reason they are attracted to their own sex. This happens in lesser animals as well as with humans. We don't know why. It's "normal" in that about 3-5% of the population will be homosexual. It is abnormal in that this is not how nature is supposed to work. But you know how it goes, sometimes things don't turn out as intended. I can't hate someone for the way they were born when I have plenty of people to hate for doing something to piss me off.
 

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Hey SP,
I could'nt agree more. I hope I did'nt give the wrong impression. I'm watching Foxnews right now, and YES, HATRED is definitely not the way to go. I especially feel sorry for the (clinically) trans sexual, man in body-female in heart and soul.
My point is, NO ONE needs to EVER flaunt their sexuality. There is NO reason to bring it up in ANY situation. Therefore, Boy Scout leaders, St. Patrick's Day marchers, servicemen, etc. are only making a harder life for themeselves by defining themeselves by their sexual preferences.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Sparks flew from the blade as .250 defended himself from the next onslaught of the attacking Saxon! By Allah! Haven't these infidels heard that queers carry cooties that spread their bizzarre condition? It was established fact that if you went into one of THEIR taverns, all the strength would leave your wrists and you would start to lisp! He must not fail to defeat this aggressor from the strange, mythical land of "Arkansasland", far across the sea (of prarie grass)! He gathered his strength, and launched a Savage (naturally) counterattack! This SaxonPig would yet rue the day he had been whelped!

Whee! That was fun! Now, on to buisness...

SaxonPig, did you really read my post? I do not now, nor have I ever, hate or fear queers; I DO, however, very much hate and fear their agenda. I am afraid it is a package deal, my friend. Realistically, there are only two political philosophies, conservative/pro-gun/anti-gay, and liberal/anti-gun/pro-gay. Yes, I would be DELIGHTED to just leave them alone; they, however, refuse to extend the same courtesy to me. We have a tempest in a teapot going on here now because some of the local school board members sensibly don't want sexual orientation OF ANY KIND discussed AT ALL. This, naturally, was deliberately mislabeled as "hatred", and the school board members were called every foul name in the book, solidly backed by the local red-to-pink leaning press (funny how it's never "hatred" when the queers spew vile bigotry).

And yes, I am well aware you cannot be "converted". When I was in college getting my AAS, a guy was going around trying to get petition signatures to prevent some queer students from forming a club. It may surprise you to know that I didn't sign it. Like you, I basically take a live-and-let-live attitude to such things. As he walked off, he made the comment that "**** don't breed; they recruit!" I thought that rather funny, as you either are or you aren't; you can't be recruited OR denied membership, as the case may be.

The difference here, and it is a HUGE one, is that we are ACTIVELY being attacked. Do you suppose the queers really want to wipe the snotty noses of barely-housebroken boy scouts that much? Of course not. The REAL goal is to be perceived as NORMAL and MAINSTREAM, as well as to "get 'em when they're young", show them at an early age that "queer is normal", when it most decidedly IS NOT. And this is done in a thousand different ways, some subtle, some not so subtle. I went into a Borders Books the other day to find some magazines. I went into the "Family" section, and there, amongst "Reader's Digest" and "Ladie's Home Journal", some subhuman had stuck one of the glossy queer magazines, where anyone coming in to find some decent reading matter couldn't help but have it stuck in their face.

Do I hate queers for what they are? Hell, no! I have rather "exotic" tastes myself, but I do not thrust (no pun intended) my choice of sexuality on others or demand that my personal sexual interests be taught to school children as "normal". Nor would I put one of my magazines in the "Family" section. You can't even GET one of my mags in Borders, and that is the way it should be; it is not appropriate for any place where children may be present. But you sure as hell CAN find queer mags, and that is NOT the way it should be.

Am I particularly worried that queers are pedophiles? No. Do I think this is a good idea? Again, no. The potential for abuse is too great. Go back to my last post, and re-read the part about how HETRO men probably shouldn't be left alone among young GIRLS. At 8, likely no problem. At 12, well, still probably all right. At 14? Mmmmm, I dunno, man, YOU remember being that age! There is a LOT of curiosity in both genders, and if you have an adult there already oriented in the "right" direction, and you're alone in the woods... Why ask for trouble? Honestly, I would rather have confirmed queers alone with GIRL scouts. But hey, I have an even better idea! Why don't we keep hetro males with young boys, and hetro females with young girls? This seems like the least likely to cause trouble of ANY system. And gee, golly, and gosh-darn, that is ALREADY the system they have in place! Almost like it has always worked! Who is working so hard to overturn the centuries-old system? The queers...

And so far as a parade on a goobermint-ownded street being "free speech" and thus protected, while "regular meetings" in goobermint-ownded buildings are not, recall that "free speech" is in the First Amendment, AND SO IS "FREEDOM OF ASSOCIATION"! This latter was the reason the Supreme Court ruled in favor of the Boy Scouts being allowed to have high standards and not let in queers. If queers can use goobermint property (streets) to broadcast their views under the First Amendment, then the Boy Scouts can use goobermint property (buildings) to broadcast their views under the SAME Amendment.

And if you are upset that I use the word "queer" instead of the more PC, Newspeak "Gay", that, too, is protected speech. Much as the liberals hate it and are trying to make "Hate Speech" part of the vocabulary, on the way to making it illegal, we still do have free speech in this country, at least for the moment. Irritating and hurtful? You bet! Just like the queer agenda...

.250 stood poised, sword raised in a defensive posture, awaiting the next onslaught of the SaxonPig. Ever vigilante, he reminded himself, you must not fail...
 

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Hey .250 Savage,
Excellent!!!!
If you are not a writer of news paper columns....you should be. I'm constantly impressed by the literary talent of members of these gun forums.
Also, what is an AAS?
J2H
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Thank you, Joe2. Yes, I have definitely thought about working for a newspaper, if only to get a conservative/libertarian viewpoint stuck in edgewise among the liberals. I would expect it would be tough; Ollie North frequently talks about what it's like being the only conservative at (I think) NBC. NOT pretty! You know what vile, hate-filled bigots liberals are!:D

And an AAS is an Applied Associates' degree in Science, which is basically halfway to a BS, or Bachelors' of Science. I am a Mechanical Technician, which is halfway to being a Mechanical Engineer.
 

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I can go along with that. It would be nice if everyone could keep their private lives private and we could all just stop worrying about. Unfortunately, some folks can't stop poking around in other people's business.
 

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250 Savage- Words have meanings. To protest that you don't hate homosexuals and then call them "queers" is a less than convincing argument. Sort of like saying "I am not a racist since I don't hate *******."

As for your other assertion that all political agendas are tied up in one neat bundle, well, you're wrong. I am 100% against infringements on the Second Amendment. I have spent 20+ YEARS AS AN ACTIVIST, LOBBYING ELECTED OFFICIALS, WRITING TO THE MEDIA, EVEN RUNNING FOR OFFICE ON A PRO-GUN PLATFORM. i AM A LIFE MEMBER OF THE nra (OOPS, HIT CAPS, SORRY) and I have given thousands of dollars to fight for our rights. But I am also pro-choice, support separation of Church and state, and feel that all citizens deserve equal protection under the law. I had a college professor once who was an admitted Communist, but he opposed gun control laws. You can make generalizations about people, but they will be just that, very general. They will also sometimes be wrong. Yes, a person who says they are a liberal will usually have similar beliefs with other liberals. Same with conservatives. But there are lots of folks somewhere in the middle, like me. I have very conservative views about big government, taxation, welfare, criminal justice, the military and gun control. But I tend to adopt a more liberal stance on abortion, civil liberties, freedom of speech and other social issues. Be careful about trying to make one size fit all.

On the homosexuals (since you don't like "gay") who have marches and demonstrations, well, I have attended quite a few marches and demonstrations in support of the Second Amendment. Most of the people at the marches you don't like are just trying to do the same thing, which is call attention to injustice.
 
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