Perfect Union banner
1 - 20 of 45 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
115 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello Guys,This is my first post! My question is i have a new
mini-14 (under a year old) that i want to upgrade the stock on.
I just bought a new butler creek "folder" off gunbroker
and i LOVE it to say the least ,Is it LEGAL for me to put it on my
rifle? :2guns:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
716 Posts
Ummm. I don't think so. :(
The "folding ability" has to be cancelled, ie: it has to be welded and/or pinned such that the stock cannot be folded.
I hope I'm wrong. Somebody! please tell me I'm wrong
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,765 Posts
New York state, yes, if it's the only evil. New York City, No, its considered evil. Welcome to our forum deerhntr. I encourage everyone not to reley on someone else opinion of the law. Like my papy used to say, " sonny your ignorance is excused, but ignorance of de law is not!, ifen you get yourself in jail ye kin get yourself out!" check out this link! and make shure I read it right!
http://www.nraila.org/GunLaws.asp?FormMode=state
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
88 Posts
Under no circumstances can you legally put a folding stock on a post-ban semi-automatic rifle like the Mini14. You can only swap out the stock for a folder on Mini14's manufactured on pre-ban guns. Sorry :(
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
61 Posts
Red,
I was under the impression that if you have a pre-ban rifle with a traditional stock you had to leave it. In order to have a folder on a preban, it had to be bought with a folder. However, if this is true, how could anyone know if the stock is pre or post, due to the lack of any sort of serial numbering on an aftermarket stock? I probbilbly need to read more instead of going off of local here-say.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
88 Posts
I'm fairly certain that you can have all of the evil features on a pre-ban rifle, even if it didn't come with them. Rugger didn't make any folders, except for law enforcement - but there are a heck of a lot of people out there with buttler creek folding stocks on their pre-ban mini14's. There's no way for anyone to know if a preban rifle did or did not have an aftermarket folding stock on it prior to the ban, so they didn't try to regulate this.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
61 Posts
Red,
Sounds right to me. It seems that they could have regulated aftermarket stocks by putting serial numbers on them. I am not complaining, however. I personally don't see any harm in a folder on a law abiding rifle owner (a whole other topic).
The last thing you want is your long rifle getting hung up in brush with a 500lb oinker running at you.


Oh, and mr. deerhntr. Welcome to the bbs!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
217 Posts
Edward M. Owen, Jr., Chief of the Firearms Technology Branch of the BATF, has this to say:

"Semiautomatic pistols and rifles assembled after September 13, 1994,
and possessing two or more of the features listed in [Section 921 (a)
(30), Title 18 U.S.C.] are semiautomatic assault weapons as defined.
The fact that the receiver may have been manufactured prior to September
13, 1994, is immaterial to classification of a weapon as a semiautomatic
assault weapon. Additionally, payment or non-payment of excise tax is
also immaterial to classification of a firearm as semiautomatic assault
weapon."

What he is stating is, as far as pre-ban and post-ban is concerned, the date of manufacture of the receiver has nothing to do with anything. If your SAW was built into a whole SAW, or in a complete kit form, before Sept. 13, 1994 (The Date), you are the lucky owner of a pre-ban receiver. If the gun was built after this date, or if the receiver was without all of the parts to make a SAW as of The Date, then it is post-ban. Let me give you a few examples...
(taken from ar15.com, see link above)

So actually if your gun didnt have two of the "evil" features before the ban, you can't put a folding stock w/pistol grip on it regardless of the date of manufacturer.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
139 Posts
The first thing you need to consider is this:

The Ruger mini was never considered an assualt rifle, there is no such thing as a preban.....except for words....."preban"

Second: Adding a folding stock does not give it two evil features, it adds up to "three".....the ability to accept a detachable feeding device.


Some later model Butler Creek stocks are numbered.

Ruger did make a civilian folder....plane jane.


Now the hard facts......since the Mini was never classified as an assualt rifle......to add these things to it construes "the making of an assualt rifle" Now some will tell you, they don`t prosecuit.....tell it to the Judge, when your arse is in the courtroom. 10,000 fine and five years. Wanna be the poster child??? Best LTS
 

·
No Longer Involved
Joined
·
2,398 Posts
I really wish people would read and understand the laws.

detachable magazines are NOT an evil feature. They are a prerequisite.

After that, US Fed law allows ONE evil feature, the second makes it an assault weapon.

Those firearms that were in an ASSAULT WEAPON configuration on the day of the ban, are GRANDFATHERED and exempt.

Those that were in a NON-AW config at the ban are NOT assault weapons, and by modifying them AFTER the date, you are "manufacturing" a new assault weapon, which is illegal.

Read the FAQ!

http://www.perfectunion.com/forums/showthr...?&threadid=1254
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
139 Posts
"detachable magazines are NOT an evil feature. They are a prerequisite. "


Not exactly, many manufatures are bringing back some firearms, once banned by permently attaching, once detachable magazines to them and selling them as legal arms......because the magazine is now fixed. Though they are a pain in the butt to load after shooting......they give the owner a look-a-like of a formally banned arm. So "prerequisite" is not the norm here. You will find AK`s like this AND AR styled rifles for sale in California or used to. This allowed the AR styled rifles to have the dreaded pistol grip. There are many ways around the ban and manufactures are complying with them by doing things such as this.


We wern`t speaking of gandfathered assualt weapons, this was adding to a just bought firearm. Plus the fact forgotten, even a grandfathered assualt rifle can loose it`s statis as one.

Example:

If someone with an "assualt" rifle were to change it prior to the ban...."Example" AR15: remove the upper with a flash-hider and bayonet lug and repalce it with a PC upper with no flash-hider or bayonet lug....like a "match upper" and sold the original upper (though this is not required) then sold this rifle after the 1994 ban in that configuration.....it cannot be returned to it`s preban statis.......now this once again falls under......."How will they know?" question. Well, if they persure it back to the owner....your question will be answered in court......if caught. Best LTS
 

·
No Longer Involved
Joined
·
2,398 Posts
Originally posted by LIKTOSHOOT

Not exactly, many manufatures are bringing back some firearms, once banned by permently attaching, once detachable magazines to them and selling them as legal arms......because the magazine is now fixed.
I don't mean to sound like an ass, but ~yes, exactly~, detachable magazines are not a feature as part of the feature count. You and I are saying the same thing... but I am quite clear on the law, and if you can show that I've mistated the federal law of 1994, then please illuminate it. We need to educate those on this BBS and in the public in general who are NOT clear on the concepts.

IF you have a detachable magazine, THEN you start counting features. IF you do NOT have a detachable magazine, then you can have all the features you could desire. The features are enumerated AFTER the prerequisite magazine.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Due to the success folks have had in improving the accuracy of their mini-14's by adding muzzle breaks, I added one myself several months ago. I've been considering buying a Choate Pistol Grip Mini-14 stock. Any thoughts as to whether the combination of the muzzle break (attached with pin - no threaded barrel) and the pistol grip would be construed as two evil features?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,765 Posts
A pined muzzle brake is not an evil, so the pistol grip stock is your allowed evil feature.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
139 Posts
" IF you do NOT have a detachable magazine, then you can have all the features you could desire. The features are enumerated AFTER the prerequisite magazine."


Bill, though we may be speaking of the same thing, but not understanding each other, the above statement is untrue. You may be in the no-on laws, but the above statement will get someone in trouble. This magazine thing has you hung up and that is not the only reqesit for an assualt weapon. Best LTS
 

·
No Longer Involved
Joined
·
2,398 Posts
Hmmm, read the FAQ, which is a direct quote of the law, and let me know how my version is wrong.

Respectfully, I hold my ground.

FAQ: http://www.perfectunion.com/forums/showthr...?&threadid=1254

In it I reference the BATF site, which I'll stand by as the legal definition.

http://www.atf.treas.gov/pub/fire-explo_pu...ub/complete.htm

And I quote (rifle section only, there are similar pistol and shotgun rules):

(B) a semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a detachable

magazine and has at least 2 of --

(i) a folding or telescoping stock;

(ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of

the weapon;

(iii) a bayonet mount;

(iv) a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a

flash suppressor; and

(v) a grenade launcher;



IF your rifle is not a SEMI-AUTO with a DETACHABLE MAGAZINE, it doesn't fall under the 1994 AWB.

YES, various states may have different laws. They are too numerous to list here. But most of the states have weaker AW laws than the Feds (CA is a notable exception, but uses similar laws, and fixed-magazine rifles can never be AW's in CA either).

I can put a paratrooper stock with pistol grip, and flash hider, on my Garand, for instance.

Please, if you can show me how I am wrong, please do.

I never said that a detachable magazine is the only thing. It is a prerequisite, however.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
139 Posts
"I can put a paratrooper stock with pistol grip, and flash hider, on my Garand, for instance."


Bill, explain to me why you believe you can do the above..."legally" Regards LTS
 
1 - 20 of 45 Posts
Top