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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
i have a Beretta Tomcat .32acp , i am contemplating on what ammo is best for SD , i have 2 boxes of 60gr Winchester Silvertips and 1 box of UMC 71gr FMJ , which would be better for Self Defense? i need more feedback to feel more confident ...thanks :(
 

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Several years ago when the home I was responsible for defending was a 40ft sail boat in the North West Caribbean, and I couldn't determine in advance the type of threat to defend against I just loaded several different rounds in an alternating pattern. For example, my Glock 17 was loaded with both 145gr. Black Hills FMJ alternated with (i believe) 115gr Hydro-Shocks. The theory I was operating under was that when using anything less than a 45-auto for anti-personel, you are going to need more than one round to have a significant impact on the target anyway so different rounds with different penetration characteristics had a better chance of taking down the target than a single type of round. I even did that same with my Winchester 1300 Defender, loading slugs, Bolo rounds and Dragon's Breath, all of which tested out to work fairly well against the outboard motor powered kyuka's the pirates used in those waters.

So if you can't make up your mind which round might work better, just load both. If you get into a situation where you have to use that 32-auto, you're probably going to fire all the rounds you can into the BG anyway.
 

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The best self defense ammo would be in 45ACP. So sell the mouse gun to some sucker and buy a real self defense gun in a real self defense caliber.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
i like this mousegun , its lighter and faster to draw then a heavy full sized .45. i have 2 -9mm pistols too but i dont feel like carrying them around all day everyday only when i go to high risk areas, i dont care much for .45's they are over rated. all i need is which ammo for my .32 is best .
 

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i like this mousegun , its lighter and faster to draw then a heavy full sized .45. i have 2 -9mm pistols too but i dont feel like carrying them around all day everyday only when i go to high risk areas, i dont care much for .45's they are over rated. all i need is which ammo for my .32 is best .
And if the bad guy you are shooting at finds out you actually hit him, he will kick your butt. If the 45 ACP is so overrated why is it still around after almost 100 years? You need to go to school on self defense and what works and what doesn't. You will find that even as a BUG the 32 is "NOT ENOUGH GUN!"
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
.32 acp is enough gun if your an excellent shot , a shot in the jugular,liver , eyeballs,soft spot below the center of neck, it will put anyone out of the fight. yes the .45 has been around for 100 years but why does the military and LEO switch over to 9mm? a .32 acp HP can do enough damage to end the BG with a gun shot placement counts!

.32 acp is good but i want to know someone who has done more testing , the FMj for .32 acp can go deep and hit bone and keep going the Hp cant...

i like to see the bad guy with a gun actually kick my butt after i empty 8 rounds of .32 acp in him in less then 3 seconds...
 

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.32 acp is enough gun if your an excellent shot , a shot in the jugular,liver , eyeballs,soft spot below the center of neck, it will put anyone out of the fight. yes the .45 has been around for 100 years but why does the military and LEO switch over to 9mm? a .32 acp HP can do enough damage to end the BG with a gun shot placement counts!

.32 acp is good but i want to know someone who has done more testing , the FMj for .32 acp can go deep and hit bone and keep going the Hp cant...

i like to see the bad guy with a gun actually kick my butt after i empty 8 rounds of .32 acp in him in less then 3 seconds...
Well, I can tell you have never been in combat if you think it is that easy. You believe whatever you want about a 32, but I will not attend your funeral because I would have to be saying "I told you so!" :rolleyes:

Take a self defense course and see what they have to say about you mouse gun?

Oh yeah, anyone that thinks precision shots happen in combat situations have been watching way to much TV. You need to wake up and face reality.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
sure ok thanks for the info anyways , i prolly wont ever have to use a gun to stop a threat anyways , its no fun to kill anyone either , i hope i dont ever have to use a gun to defend myself but i choose a .32 acp for light carry when i go to risky areas i bring my 9mm with 17 rds of GDHP.
 

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sure ok thanks for the info anyways , i prolly wont ever have to use a gun to stop a threat anyways , its no fun to kill anyone either , i hope i dont ever have to use a gun to defend myself but i choose a .32 acp for light carry when i go to risky areas i bring my 9mm with 17 rds of GDHP.
Read the following and believfe it.

"If I knew when and where I would need my gun. I just wouldn't go there, then. But I don't and can't so I carry everywhere, everyday."
 

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As to the actual question, and leaving aside the .45ACP option, if you're going to carry a .32ACP, I would not use the hollowpoints. The cartridge simply doesn't generate enough momentum to both expand a hollowpoint and penetrate deeply enough. With .32ACP you've gotta pick expansion or penetration: you can't have both reliably.
Another thought: I dunno if it's an issue with the Tomcat, but Kel-Tec .32s are notorious for developing rimlocks with short overall length hollowpoints. FMJs have a correct OAL for the magazine and don't tend to jump rims.
Since the FMJs are more reliable, and a hollowpoint doesn't really perform any better on target (perhaps worse), and hollowpoints cost more than FMJ, there isn't any reason to use .32ACP hollowpoints. YMMV
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
i see i feel pretty comfortable with 60gr Winchester Silvertips they should penetrate at least 8 or 9 inches with some expansion, a fmj will only penetrate 3 more inches with no expansion. so it would be 7.65mm with no expansion or close to 9mm with expansion.
 

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My wife carried a Tomcat for years. We tried every HP round we could find, and the only one that fed reliably was MagTech.

Most of the others wouldn't feed because of the nature of the feed mechanism on such a small piece. The rim of the cone would just jam into the beginning of the feed ramp, or if it made it into the feed ramp, into chamber's opening. MagTech's smaller hole in the tip is why I suspect it worked best.

I've since gotten her to upgrade to a larger caliber, but if I hadn't I'd've gotten her to try Pow'rBall. It has a plastic ball in the cone, which is designed to help expansion, but also makes it feed like a round nose.

If you try it, please update the post . . . I'm curious.

BTW, how does your Tomcat function? Hers was a jam-o-matic (mostly failures to eject . . . at least one in every other magazine, on average), though someone else here has one and reported that his works fine.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
i had no problem with silvertips and FMJ i had problems with the hydra shok 65 gr i have 2 or 3 jams. how old is your tomcat i was told they corrected that problem just last year i bough tmine new in april 2009.
 

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It was bought new in 2000. The person here who has one alerted me to a recall/free-fix for certain models, but those were prior to 2000.

Glad to hear yours performs well. Maybe the newer models have been improved (or maybe we just got a bad apple).
 

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It was bought new in 2000. The person here who has one alerted me to a recall/free-fix for certain models, but those were prior to 2000.

Glad to hear yours performs well. Maybe the newer models have been improved (or maybe we just got a bad apple).
I purchased a Tomcat (SN: DAA243xxx) from an acquaintance a few months ago for my YL to carry on her hikes on the mountain. Because of your mention of a recall/fix I started investigating on the internet to find out what he was referring to and found a thread at Gundirectory.Com on the 3032. On reading that thread I found out about the cracked frame problem.

Thanks Joe….. I check the YL's Tomcat. It has the same crack in the frame they mention on that site. Apparently, this is a problem with newer Tomcats and not the older ones, but no one so far can find a manufacturing change or serial number where it started. At least according to what I have found so far, Beretta apparently just replaces the cracked ones and still hasn't issued a recall.

In contacting them (i.e., Beretta) as the second owner there is no warranty. However, the lady told me to send it in and they would check it out and tell me what options I had…. guess I'd better contact the guy I bought it from first.
 

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Here are some links to some gel test with .32 acp. The test was done with a Kel Tec P32 but the barrel length is real similar to a Tomcat.

http://www.goldenloki.com/ammo/gel/32acp/gel32acp.htm

I would go with a FMJ, since most .32 HP rounds don't expand well, and the ones that do (Cor-Bon) do not penetrate deeply.

Foreign Police forces, security forces, and even the Nazis use the .32acp with effectiveness. The .32acp was John Browning's favorite caliber and who here is going to argue with John Moses Browning?
 

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Mikeyboy is probably correct about sticking with FMJ for the 32 auto. The Firearms Tactical web site has a pretty good write up on some ammunition testing they did back in 1998. As far as they were concerned, even the Speer Gold Dot JHP didn't get enough penetration in 32 auto to count on it for self defense. You can check out their tests at: http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs9.htm. It starts out talking about the Gold Dot rounds (very popular with police departments), but, if you read further down the page they get into different rounds for various calibers.

With the Tomcat (if you are going to count on it for self defense) what ever round you chose, you should fire at least 50 to 100 through it first to make sure the pistol can feed it reliability. The Tomcat has had some feeding problems with certain rounds. Also, if I were going to use HPs or JHP, I think I would mix them 50/50 with FMJs just to be on the safe side.

On a different subject, I just got back from Beretta their typical form letter saying that they may charge me $70 to inspect my Tomcat with cracked frame... guess I'll have to wait and see what the say next.
 

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:rolleyes: Come on, guys! Comparing a 45 acp to a 32 acp is, well, just plain silly! I've carried, both, a 45 acp pistol and a 32 acp, 'Alley Cat' for more than 8 years, now.

The principal reason, 'Why' I carry a Beretta, '3032' is because the wide backstrap allows me to transition from my primary 45 acp pistol to a secondary 32 acp Beretta with minimal disruption in, both, my grip as well as the ability to fire quickly and accurately at any target inside, about, 18 yards.

Is the 32 acp, 'enough gun'? No, of course, it isn't! However, it can be used effectively against a humanoid target if more deeply penetrating FMJ bullets are used. My preferred ammo of choice is Magtech 71 grain FMJ bullets; I've tried a number of different brands and JHP, too; but, in 32 caliber, nothing hits as deeply or as well as FMJ ammo.

My least favorite 32 acp cartridge is, in fact, the outrageously crappy Winchester Silvertip rounds. They are too soft, poorly sealed, and generally anemic to be worth anything useful for personal defense. Silvertips have, also, given me more duds than any other brand of 32 acp ammo.

I've had, something like, 8 or 9 hundred rounds through my present Beretta, '3032'. All of the jams and misfires I've had occurred with Winchester Silvertip bullets. Magtech FMJ ammo runs like, 'clockwork'; and, I've fired many hundreds of them without any sort of problem.

In a self-defense situation, I'd probably let go with the entire magazine. The 32 acp doesn't hit all that hard; and, if you're going to stop a threat with this little round then, at least, put out enough lead to get the other fellow's attention.

This is the reason, 'Why' I carry two extra Beretta magazines in a thin leather pouch inside my pocket. My mental attitude is that - if I'm going to effectively stop a BG - what I am using to defend myself is, essentially, a, 'three shot handgun'. (That would be Magazine One, Magazine Two, and Magazine Three!) :D

I spend 99% of my time carrying a 45 acp pistol. Do I ever carry only the 32 acp? Well, yes, I do; but, then only for church during weddings and funerals; and, only (1) when I'm wearing a lightweight suit that would cause a larger pistol to pattern easily; or (2) when I expect a lot of people to be grabbing and hugging me.

My personal opinion of the 45 acp as a primary carry? 45 acp is the largest, heaviest, and hardest hitting handgun bullet THAT IS, ALSO, THE EASIEST TO CONTROL DURING RAPID-FIRE EVENTS. Is 45 acp a 100% manstopper? Of course it isn't! No handgun round at, or below, 44 magnum is; and, I'm not even positive about 44 magnum which is, by the way, a genuinely lousy self-defense caliber. ;)

The answer to that other question raised in this thread; 'Can you shoot with precision in a gunfight?' Some people clearly are able to do this. In my personal opinion it all depends on how you have been trained to respond; and, is that response based upon a fundamentally negative, 'fear reaction', or a fundamentally positive, ' anger reaction'. In a gunfight, anger will always get you farther than fear.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
i dont know why people think the .32acp isnt enough gun , they simply dont relaize the facts that the Nazis and the Europeans have made them pretty effective . anyways i am carrying my new SR9 its my main carry gun my tomcat is my back up gun when my primary fails..
 

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:rolleyes: Come on, guys! Comparing a 45 acp to a 32 acp is, well, just plain silly! I've carried, both, a 45 acp pistol and a 32 acp, 'Alley Cat' for more than 8 years, now.

The principal reason, 'Why' I carry a Beretta, '3032' is because the wide backstrap allows me to transition from my primary 45 acp pistol to a secondary 32 acp Beretta with minimal disruption in, both, my grip as well as the ability to fire quickly and accurately at any target inside, about, 18 yards.

Is the 32 acp, 'enough gun'? No, of course, it isn't! However, it can be used effectively against a humanoid target if more deeply penetrating FMJ bullets are used. My preferred ammo of choice is Magtech 71 grain FMJ bullets; I've tried a number of different brands and JHP, too; but, in 32 caliber, nothing hits as deeply or as well as FMJ ammo.

My least favorite 32 acp cartridge is, in fact, the outrageously crappy Winchester Silvertip rounds. They are too soft, poorly sealed, and generally anemic to be worth anything useful for personal defense. Silvertips have, also, given me more duds than any other brand of 32 acp ammo.

I've had, something like, 8 or 9 hundred rounds through my present Beretta, '3032'. All of the jams and misfires I've had occurred with Winchester Silvertip bullets. Magtech FMJ ammo runs like, 'clockwork'; and, I've fired many hundreds of them without any sort of problem.

In a self-defense situation, I'd probably let go with the entire magazine. The 32 acp doesn't hit all that hard; and, if you're going to stop a threat with this little round then, at least, put out enough lead to get the other fellow's attention.

This is the reason, 'Why' I carry two extra Beretta magazines in a thin leather pouch inside my pocket. My mental attitude is that - if I'm going to effectively stop a BG - what I am using to defend myself is, essentially, a, 'three shot handgun'. (That would be Magazine One, Magazine Two, and Magazine Three!) :D

I spend 99% of my time carrying a 45 acp pistol. Do I ever carry only the 32 acp? Well, yes, I do; but, then only for church during weddings and funerals; and, only (1) when I'm wearing a lightweight suit that would cause a larger pistol to pattern easily; or (2) when I expect a lot of people to be grabbing and hugging me.

My personal opinion of the 45 acp as a primary carry? 45 acp is the largest, heaviest, and hardest hitting handgun bullet THAT IS, ALSO, THE EASIEST TO CONTROL DURING RAPID-FIRE EVENTS. Is 45 acp a 100% manstopper? Of course it isn't! No handgun round at, or below, 44 magnum is; and, I'm not even positive about 44 magnum which is, by the way, a genuinely lousy self-defense caliber. ;)

The answer to that other question raised in this thread; 'Can you shoot with precision in a gunfight?' Some people clearly are able to do this. In my personal opinion it all depends on how you have been trained to respond; and, is that response based upon a fundamentally negative, 'fear reaction', or a fundamentally positive, ' anger reaction'. In a gunfight, anger will always get you farther than fear.
Nice post, though Clint Eastwood might disagree about the 44 ;)
 
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