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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've been reading on this site and elsewhere that the slamming of the op-rod into the gas block is what kills optics and effects Mini-14 accuracy. There is a lot of discussion on reduced gas bushings and front & rear buffers mostly directed at reducing felt recoil and brass tossing in the ranch models.

If one were to put in a reduced strength recoil spring and a rear buffer wouldn't that reduce slamming of the op-rod against the gas block? I'm not in favor of using a front buffer due to the likelihood of it deteriorating with use (heat & battering) as well as screwing with the timing and possible incomplete bolt closure. My rear buffer looks pristine after at least a couple thousand rounds to it. I would expect a deteriorating front buffer to cause a shift in POI.

Might one be able to choke down the gas port a little more with a further reduced spring? I realize that eventually reliability fails if you go too far with this. I'm just pondering.

My 582 is running just fine with a .045" gas port bushing and a rear 1911 buffer. It tosses the brass out about 12 feet at about 2 o'clock and the right handloads at 1.5 MOA. It is scoped & Accu-strutted.
 
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Hellgate;

" I would expect a deteriorating front buffer to cause a shift in POI."

I have never had the POI change because of a screwed up buffer.
I changed from the standard buffer others use to Quad Rings for the front buffer. I have found they last a lot longer as they do not burn like the other buffers. A lighter spring I have never tried, I think it may cause problems stripping the follow up round.
If you do go with a lighter spring and smaller bushing let us know how it works out.
 

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Hellgate, even with a reduced power recoil spring, the front of the op-rod will still slam against the gas block, with nothing to impede it.
If you are worried about timing problems or incomplete bolt closure, maybe try a thinned down buffer ?
You'll still get some cushioning benefits but reduce the chances that bolt would not close fully or affect timing.

Have you yet tried a front buffer ? Maybe your's wouldn't get deteriorated at all, and if it did, you can smooth the front face of the op-rod.
Front buffers won't last as long as a rear one anyway, in my experience, because of the hot gasses which eventually will make the front buffer charred and brittle, but I think the advantages of running one up there are worth it.
Buffers are not that expensive. Besides, when you cut the front buffers to half thickness, you'll end up with twice as many !
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Sandog, I occasionally use the rifle in practical rifle matches where we may end up shooting a 30-40 round string. I'm thinking that kind of heat would mess the buffer up. When I did that the gas block got pretty toasty. If I were only using it for plinking of coyote calling then the buffer would not get that hot. The most lead I've ever thrown at a running coyote is 12 rounds (and I got him too, at 1/3 mile away, it was a collision).

Sparkie, what's a Quad Ring?
 

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Hellgate, a reasonable question, but some things to consider...

The "Scope-Killer" Minis are mostly because of their forward recoil. You've got that right.

But the other aspect is it is forward recoil with metal-metal slamming. Without getting into too much physics, it is not only the force, but the moment of force. Consider a five-pound steel ball-peen hammer slamming onto a hunk of steel. There is a reason either wooden handles or rubber grips are made for them. Same force, but the "moment" is spread out a bit with rubber grips. Also consider driving your car with no shock absorbers and steel wheels, compared to inflated tires and shocks. Or running barefoot on concrete versus wearing running shoes with all the technology of foam and rubber.

The front buffers serve the same purpose - particularly with the impact on scopes (most designed for rearward recoil but mot forward recoil. Scopes designed for air guns generally handle both directions and also generally deal with the Mini's forward recoil better.

Of course, high-quality scopes like a Leo or a Nikon can generally hold their own.

Making the recoil spring weaker MIGHT work, but may affect function and reliability, and will still result in metal-metal slamming and the short "moment" of impact. A front buffer fixes that, and doesn't require a lot of thickness - just durability.

There are rubber/synthetic materials that handle heat quite well. My lowly garage-door gaskets and vinyl baseboard experiences held up well to some rapid fire (don't do it often, but have tested - for other reasons). The Wilson 1911 buffers appear to hold up, but (while I have a set) I haven't tested.

Just my 2¢ worth...
 

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Hellgate;

Quad Rings are used in many applications where an o-ring will not work.
Here is a search URL https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Viton+Quad-Ring&t=hi&ia=images

Item Hardness 75 A Durometer
Measurement System Inch
Cross Section Shape Quad
Lower Temperature Rating -15 degrees_fahrenheit
Upper Temperature Rating 400 degrees_fahrenheit
Specification Met AS568A
Brand Name Small Parts
Color Black
Durometer Hardness 75 _ A
Material Viton
 

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When I had my mini30 worked on by ASI I didn’t know enough to get an adjustable gas block installed but I did gt the heavy duty recoil spring installed. However not liking how stiff it was plus having ejection issues with my lighter than mil spec loads I reinstalled the original spring. I also installed wilson 1911 blue shockbuffs on the front and rear of my op rod unit but as I like to experiment with springs I also added a short stiff spring in the op rod hole where the recoil spring lives. I made a small plug that slips inside of the long spring and butts against the short spring seperating them. When the long spring compresses as far as it can then the small spring collapses at the very rear of the bolt cycle. Seems to help but I just ordered a set of gas port bushings so next week I’ll know a little more.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I'm starting to think that if a much weaker spring is used it can't be too light because it needs to strip rounds out of 20 or 30 round mags which can take some force. I guess I'm starting to answer my own questions now. I'll need to polish the mag lips if I ever try a lighter spring.
Hey I got it! Lighter mag springs too! This whole idea is starting to become a ******** (one thing leading to another that makes the situation even worse).
 
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