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Are there any fellow Pagans in this forum? I cant be the only one. Im not talking about devil worshippers. True pagans. The devil is a Christian notion. Let me know if yall are in here!
Any Pagans in here?
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Beings that you asked !
They'll be along soon !
They'll be along soon !
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Sorry, I'm a Druid
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Druidry is a form of Paganism! Lol
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Only by your definition.
Baptist's may be followers of Christ, but not all followers of Christ are Baptist's.
No relationship at all between agnostics and atheists.
Agnostics are supposedly open minded and just haven't settled on a religion.
Atheists are sure there is no God and that if they talk long enough can convince you likewise, that they can prove a negative.
But in reality I think agnostics aren't at all philosophical. They just don't care about the subject at all, or at least not enough to sit through a church service. And atheists, proving a negative not being enough for them, really want to crush all religion and believers in the manner of Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot and Kim Jong-un.
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I think that is the most descriptive definition of an Athiest i have read so far
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My wifey is pagan. She used to be a Gardnerian high priestess...a sect of Wiccan I guess, although the definitions are super fluid when it comes to the "old way" new religions.
I myself am an agnostic.
I was raised as a holy roller Pentecostal, and for a while was an ordained minister in the Assembly of God. Then I started questioning certain doctrines, and became more of a Calvinist (More of an academic like Lewis Sperry Chafer or Col. R.B.Thieme). As time progressed, I argued myself right out of the whole thing...lol!
So here is MY definition of an atheist versus agnostic, and why I'm an agnostic.
First of all, to say there is a God means you have faith that there IS a God. It is not provable by scientific method. So a Christian or any other religious fellow has FAITH in their belief.
Conversely, you can't prove by scientific method that there is NO God. So the atheists are ALSO believing, by FAITH, that there is no God.
Essentially, an atheist is a disgruntled Christian who's all screwed up in the head, because their insistence on the lack of a deity is just as faith based, and unscientific, as any Christian out there...as much so even as the idiots who blow stuff up wearing towels on their heads.
Agnosticism comes from the Greek root word Agnostic. Or Gnostic. Gnostic means To Know. Agnostic means you DON'T know. I've decided that the most honest people in the world are Agnostic. You can't prove it, so there is no way of knowing for sure until you are pushing up daisies. I'm not arrogant enough anymore to state emphatically I believe anything about the next life or what happens after we croak, because it can't be proven either way, so I'll find out when I get there...or don't.
I have many things I'd LIKE to believe. I love the Celtic mythos about reincarnation...but who the heck knows?
Until I bite the bullet, I'm happily agnostic.
Kev
I myself am an agnostic.
I was raised as a holy roller Pentecostal, and for a while was an ordained minister in the Assembly of God. Then I started questioning certain doctrines, and became more of a Calvinist (More of an academic like Lewis Sperry Chafer or Col. R.B.Thieme). As time progressed, I argued myself right out of the whole thing...lol!
So here is MY definition of an atheist versus agnostic, and why I'm an agnostic.
First of all, to say there is a God means you have faith that there IS a God. It is not provable by scientific method. So a Christian or any other religious fellow has FAITH in their belief.
Conversely, you can't prove by scientific method that there is NO God. So the atheists are ALSO believing, by FAITH, that there is no God.
Essentially, an atheist is a disgruntled Christian who's all screwed up in the head, because their insistence on the lack of a deity is just as faith based, and unscientific, as any Christian out there...as much so even as the idiots who blow stuff up wearing towels on their heads.
Agnosticism comes from the Greek root word Agnostic. Or Gnostic. Gnostic means To Know. Agnostic means you DON'T know. I've decided that the most honest people in the world are Agnostic. You can't prove it, so there is no way of knowing for sure until you are pushing up daisies. I'm not arrogant enough anymore to state emphatically I believe anything about the next life or what happens after we croak, because it can't be proven either way, so I'll find out when I get there...or don't.
I have many things I'd LIKE to believe. I love the Celtic mythos about reincarnation...but who the heck knows?
Until I bite the bullet, I'm happily agnostic.
Kev
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Im I guess what you would call a Traditional Pagan. Its not a religion, its a way of life following the cycles of the earth and making sure I balance myself with it. I am one with everything. We borrow and give back energy. Animals pick up on this energy. Kinda like a dog sensing fear or sensing sadness. Paying attention to my own intuition and following the path laid out before me by the choices I make. Mother earth is always present, giving me what I need to survive and be at peace. Of course my decisions shape my path. I cannot blame my bad decisions on evil spirits or the "devil" it is my own responsibility to pay for what I do. I can use the energies of the earth or the energies of the people around me to generate potent "magik" if thats what you want to call it. I also believe that doing the HONORABLE and RIGHT thing is the path everyone should take even if it does not have a favorable outcome for you. I am Pagan. And This is my Path
Yes,he explained it very well.
Interesting thread!
Many atheists spend their time and money trying to destroy a god that they don't believe in; how stupid is that? Their epitaph will be "All dressed up and nowhere to go".
Sorry, no offence meant, just a lame attempt at humor!
I like the way Kev described it, and one of the great faults of both sides of the coin is that there is no solid evidence either way and it takes faith to believe in one or the other. Of course those who believe will say they have all the proof they need either for or against any god.
I was once taught that religion makes people mean, and having worked in some religious circles I definately saw the truth in that. We are not called to be religious, we are called to be spiritual, and I for one believe that we have both temporal and spiritual abilities. I too left the ministry for the hypocracy that ran so rampant amongst many churchgoers. I will also say that I met many wonderful people who were mixed in with those hypocrites.
I have been a seeker of truth for most of my life, and have run through most of the established doctrines of spirituality. I have been a atheistic denier, an agnostic fence sitter, a baptized believer, a worshipping zealot, and stopped just short of becoming religiously mean. That's where I backed off and began a new study. I believe in God no less today than I did back at the height of my church experience, I just don't buy into much of the "church" doctrine any more.
The natives respected the "Spirit that moves in all things"; they knew nothing of the white man's god before their arrival in America. Ironically the white man respected little if anything of his own religion and all but annhilated the natives; he could have taken some Spiritual lessons from them. I am not a Pagan, as I do not worship the creation more than the Creator, but I have become a Spiritualist in that I understand the Spirit that moves in all things is real, living, and able to be joined with.
I spent a decade "acting" like a Christian. I did my best to adhire to 1600 pages of rules and regulations until I read that it isn't about rules but rather a relationship, and no matter how good my "acting" was it wasn't good enough. For me I choose to see God in all things, not just in church on Sunday.
I am probably closer to being a Pagan than I am to being a Christian according to the church's definition of the words. Labels don't bother me any longer. I ams what I ams and what I ams is a man...
Many atheists spend their time and money trying to destroy a god that they don't believe in; how stupid is that? Their epitaph will be "All dressed up and nowhere to go".
Sorry, no offence meant, just a lame attempt at humor!
I like the way Kev described it, and one of the great faults of both sides of the coin is that there is no solid evidence either way and it takes faith to believe in one or the other. Of course those who believe will say they have all the proof they need either for or against any god.
I was once taught that religion makes people mean, and having worked in some religious circles I definately saw the truth in that. We are not called to be religious, we are called to be spiritual, and I for one believe that we have both temporal and spiritual abilities. I too left the ministry for the hypocracy that ran so rampant amongst many churchgoers. I will also say that I met many wonderful people who were mixed in with those hypocrites.
I have been a seeker of truth for most of my life, and have run through most of the established doctrines of spirituality. I have been a atheistic denier, an agnostic fence sitter, a baptized believer, a worshipping zealot, and stopped just short of becoming religiously mean. That's where I backed off and began a new study. I believe in God no less today than I did back at the height of my church experience, I just don't buy into much of the "church" doctrine any more.
The natives respected the "Spirit that moves in all things"; they knew nothing of the white man's god before their arrival in America. Ironically the white man respected little if anything of his own religion and all but annhilated the natives; he could have taken some Spiritual lessons from them. I am not a Pagan, as I do not worship the creation more than the Creator, but I have become a Spiritualist in that I understand the Spirit that moves in all things is real, living, and able to be joined with.
I spent a decade "acting" like a Christian. I did my best to adhire to 1600 pages of rules and regulations until I read that it isn't about rules but rather a relationship, and no matter how good my "acting" was it wasn't good enough. For me I choose to see God in all things, not just in church on Sunday.
I am probably closer to being a Pagan than I am to being a Christian according to the church's definition of the words. Labels don't bother me any longer. I ams what I ams and what I ams is a man...
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Ha The Leader and Highest Cultist of the Lie should be the religion then ;-)
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An update. I am indeed a Christian. Although I am still essentially a "doubting Thomas," I really do believe in not only the Christian ethos and philosophy that has shaped Western civilization, but also have a peace in my life now accepting my Christian identity, upbringing, and how it shaped me into the man I am today. Still not a holy roller or church attender...but very secure in my beliefs and in my salvation (where I might go when I leave this mortal plane).
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Glad you resurrected this thread, in any case. Really appreciated your above agnostic description. Still consider myself proudly among them. As far as religious systems go, guess I prefer Paganism over others (with possibly one exception to follow). My understanding of it was that it was essentially (a) non-/pre- Judaeo Xtian, and (b) like the Greek or Roman system (Roman taken from Greek), with Zeus, Dianna, Aphrodite, and all those. I like the Greek, because those figures were basically modeled after aspects if the psyche, so that they thus helpfully inform on the human mind/emotions. Additionally, I like Hinduism, as probably the most informed, but, similar to Paganism, I understand that it doesn't really consider itself a conventional religion, but more simply just a body of knowledge. Thus, it cannot be "joined", but rather just more partaken of, i.e. "learned". And it's there for anyone, but not to consume, only to enhance them.
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sort of surprised our resident Marxist hasn't chimed in to argue a particular point!
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my Godson studied and became licensed and ordained as a Druid Priest..........purely as a tax dodge and to burn an extra 2 years in college.(getting gov't grants and loans for "religious study")
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So evil is a Christian notion? Yeah ohhkay. So is mans nature to do good or bad? Clue: put a desirable toy down between multiple children and tell me what happens.
So assuming honesty, mankind without God's word to check his nature is to do evil, and paganism, "if there is still such a thing separate from doing evil" is absent of God, then you "worship" nothing more than a man construct of nature which is by nature evil. So tell me then why in the beginning of his life the most intelligent man of the millennium so far Albert Einstein, was sure God was a construct to be swept aside as weakness. Yet as he grew in knowledge and wisdom said it was virtually impossible for our nature's intricacies and interdependencies to come from randomness and acknowledged "surely there is an incredible designer at work for the randomness is impossible"! Pagan, atheist, agnostic all either shake their fist at a deity they swear does not exist, or command they come forward and show them they exist. Any of these positions are fostered by the one who prowls the earth devouring soul after soul. The emptiness of denying God when I look around me is something I cannot imagine. So I may not be a "fellow pagan" But I am a believer in our Lord and just like the thief on the cross, or the workers in the vineyard, Rejoice in the sacrifice and reason for our Lord's sacrifice and even in your last breath , you are saved for God knows your heart and every hair, or lack of, on your head for he placed you in your mother's womb.
God Bless you.
many well thought out positions on this thread, I was heartened to see the mention of not worshiping the creation over the Creator, that is an ongoing enticement to us in this life.
I don't recall a time I did not recognize the presence of the Creator and His response to my prayer.
best wishes
I don't recall a time I did not recognize the presence of the Creator and His response to my prayer.
best wishes
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