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44 MAG Favorite loads?

8572 Views 66 Replies 8 Participants Last post by  Black Prince
No 44 Mag threads going. Heres one. Who loads for the 44? What is the load? My favorite load is with a 300 gr cast lead bullet.

FC Brass
Federal LP Primers.
18.0 gr 2400 Powder
Lyman mould 429265(?) GC 300 gr
1.700 OAL
Heavy Crimp
Gravity Ejection of cases!

10 rnd avg. 1401 fps / 1308 fpe
Avg Deviation 14 fps (extreme 54 fps)
7-1/2" BBL (SBH)

This is 6 rounds of it at 50 yds. Sandbagged at the bench just to see what it was capable of, and sighting in purposes. I was trying for target zero, so POA was 6 O'Clock and when it came back like this I said good enough and didnt fiddle with it! I probably dont need 1400 fps so I may just trim this load back to 1250 or so

For reference purposes only! It may work for me but you and your gun may be in trouble if you try this load without working it up slowly like you should. Safety first!

Aint 44's Grand?! :cannon:


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41 - 60 of 67 Posts
Wal, Dave, if it's any consolation, I thank it's funny, an' I ALSO thank it's funny that it wuz th' same dang rascals unner th' bridge as swimmin' inna' creek, too. I bet that to this day, whenever they hears th' phrase "th' long arm'a th' law," they think'a yew, son. Yew prolly saved'em a long stretch inna' Big House, ridin' herd on'em lak ya' done. I doan 'speck they'll ever rightly appreciate it, but ......... wal, jes' screw'em any ol' how. Joke'em if they cain't take a ....... uh ....... plane flyin' unner a overpass. Eh?
:D :D :D :2guns:
Alla that was in a different time and place son and even then, the world was catching up to the Free State of Jones. It's why I left law enforcement. The new sheriff said he don't want anybody hit with a billy club, sprayed with mace or shot and he looked right at me when he said it. So I told him where he could stick it and that if any of his "Subjects" ever crossed me, I'd damm well shoot them and the horse they rode in on. I guess that sorta tore it. He had no sense of humor.

If you were to poke some sorry sumbritch with a cattle prod today, you'd be in jail instead of him. If you flew a plane under a bridge today, the FAA would pull your license and put you in jail. Hell, they would have pulled my license back then if they had known I did it. No sense of humor.

They put Doo Dah's wife in jail for toteing a 44 special Bulldog in the Jackson. Mississippi airport if you can believe that and dang near put my wife in jail for doing the the same thing on a different occasion. Just no sense of humor.

The world has changed and it has not been for the better either. I tell you, when the King died, the whole damm world went to hell in a hand basket far as I'm concerned. But hee, heee, I still have a pistolgun, and if sum sumbritch with no sense of humor want's to share his bad attitude with me, hell, I'll let him have all six hell berry's just to show him I'm a considerate kinda guy.

I still have a sense of humor you know?
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Wow, that should keep me busy all summer, all those drills. Thanks. I gotta print that out an start gathering targets.

LMAO at those hippies. Hope they can laugh as hard in remembering it! Doubt it.;)

Boy, the work sure picked up. They workin me day & night lately.
Be thankful for your problems at work Ed. For if it were not for them, someone with less ability than yourself would have your job.
Boys, I can't shoot a handgun worth a damn, and I haven't had the life experiences y'all have had. There ain't a dang thing worthwhile I could possibly add to this conversation. But I'm here to say that just having the priviledge to sit here and soak up these words is a unique pleasure. Keep sharing these thoughts and stories with us! I can't wait until the 5th Annual. If the good Lord's willing, and the creek don't rise, and I can wrangle an invite, I'm gonna be there!
Yeah hell, when I'm on this here Interstate thangie, I'm ten feet tall an bullet proof son. I can leap tall buiildings with a single bound and shoot tha fleas off running hound dogs.

Memory is a wonderful thang ain't it? It's selective. I only remember the matches I won and the bulleyes I hit when I tell it.

But sometims when I get the blues, I remember Rex Wiseman that crashed his little Pitts Special bi-plane doing an inverted climb out from take off, and killed himself graveyard dead. I remember Alton Hessler, whose pilot license was signed by Orville Wright himself, crashing his Beech Barron in the swamp jist short of the runway at Yazoo City and killed himself dead too. And I remember Sid Lewis, and Bill Rubin and Jerry Dise and Paul Thaxton and Ray Lomax and Jerry Landrum and Pat Walters and . . .

Memory can sometimes be a bitch too. They were good men but they all left early. May they rest in peace.
Amen, Davy. Good men are hard to find. Always have been. Who was it who said, "Most men live lives of quiet desperation?"
I disremember. Lotta' Truth there, though, ain't there? So many of us humankind never even try to get "outside the box" and have a look see, that pilots are a group I've always admired. Never had the dough to have my own plane - and anything else - so I just always "worshiped them from afar." I'm acrophobic, so I guess it makes sense that I'd love flying. Aint' it funny how that works? Men who find the "normal" boring, and set out to achieve or know or find something more, have always been the kinds who've taken the risks, and experienced the pleasures that others never know, and don't understand. We parcel our lives out to the great God of mediocrity, and sell our will for the affirmation of others. It's only cragy ol' summiches that won't allow themselves to be satisfied by the many opiates and vices of the masses. It's a dang shame, but that's the way it is, and I think the way it's always been, and likely will always be. Folks who "pay the price" to go beyond what's considered "kosher" in human associations are ....... well, they're "different," and tend to be punished for being different. Look what they did to Jesus! Nailed him down on that cross, and stuck him with a spear, and ........ well, you know the story. If THEY can't do it, or it makes them uneasy about their meager efforts and existence, why then it's just GOT to be STOPPED, doesn't it?

Dang it! That other post of yours has me in "that mode" again!
I wish you wouldn't DO that to me, son! It ain't RIGHT takin' advantage of my impressionability! But it's what you do best, so I reckon it's O.K. ......... kinda' sorta', maybe.

Well, dang it, let's get back on course here, and I'll comment or try to expand on some points here. We oughta' get a good fight goin' here 'fore long, eh? Hee hee hee!

Well, here goes:

1. "..... that the only things you really have to do is Tiger the sights and make the sear break when you are sure the sights are alighned." - Wouldn't that be like sayin that all you gotta do to play the Blues guitar is to hit all the right notes at the right times?

EXACTLY! Only the guitar takes a LOT of finger dexterity that I apparently just don't have. Like you say, every once in a while, when I'm well practiced, I'll hit that "zone" and play above my head. Truly a most gratifying experience! I guess I just don't WANT to play most of the time, which kinda' makes my point. I get caught up in just relaxing with the guitar, I literally forget to PLAY the dang thing! Sure do like your sense of humor!

2. "Brian Enos touched on this stuff a little in his book and I've tried to discuss it with some other shooters, who wind up not getting it. Those are the shooters that don't do very well too."

Interesting! I never read books on how to do stuff, because they never work. I've found that I may screw up a lot more, initially, but if I just "figure it out myself," the process gets me a lot more involved in what's going on, and I notice stuff I'd never notice if I were just following directions. Only AFTER one gets a good feeling for something do I think such books do much good. The benefit of others' experience and observations most definitely ARE helpful, and often highly so, but FIRST, one must, I think, have a basic grasp of the process. That still comes, I think, by doing things, and just noticing what is involved, how it works, and working things out as you go. Others will disagree, of course, and not without reason, but what I'm talking about here is nothing more than getting the basic PROCESS down, and I really DO think it's best done by trial and error, and carefully observing what's going on, and figuring out WHY what works, works. Just MHO, of course.

3. 'Going Zen' on demand is what I cant do yet.

Well, don't be expecting pity from ME, son! Yew ain't by your lonesome! I ga-ron-tee! I doubt there's anyone who ALWAYS does it. That just isn't the way life works. Still, there are those who CAN do it MOST to NEARLY ALL of the time, and THOSE boys (and gals) can't do it, I think, without constant practice. I just haven't been shooting a whole lot for several years, now, and it sure shows! Would that it were not so, but ...... well, that's just the way it is. I should be able to start getting back into some semblance of shape again, soon, when I get the new reloading shanty finished. That ALWAYS helps. I'll have everything set up to where I'll be able to go in and start producing ammo and bullets quickly, and that will be a BIG help! Still, I do have my moments, and most especially when a quick shot's required. One tends to do - in the spur of a moment - what one has TRAINED himself to do, and that's a habit that doesn't go completely away, even without regular practice - not COMPLETELY, anyway. There ARE certain long- lasting benefits of getting good, even once, but the more one trains and practices, the better able they'll be to, as you say, do it on demand.

4. "... but when you get to the point where your sear breaks when you think fire, you have arrived where all good pistol shooters must get to in order to be able to shoot well."

AMEN, Davy! AMEN! Good shooting just can't be done without a good trigger. For fine, precise shooting, that means it has to be light, and maybe even more important than how light it is, within reason, it has to break EVERY TIME at the same exact pressure. All this harks to consistency, of course, and it takes a good gun with a good trigger to be consistent. That's one reason when a good shooter, like Davy, gets a gun that "speaks to him," you'll NEVER pry that particular gun out of their hands.

Now the strange thing is that ol' Ed McGivern, the undisputed
"King" of the double action mode, used full strength springs in all his guns. That pudgy little guy had forearms like a blacksmith, though, and could "trigger cock" a M-10 S&W to perfection. He DID demand that his guns be very SMOOTH, though, in DA mode, and that makes them very consistent. Again, without that consistency, there'll be no record-breaking shooting, whether it be formal competition, or just besting your own best performance to date. Golfers say they like the game because they're always playing against their own personal best prior performance. Good shooting works the same way, in that respect. Good carpenters don't work with cheap Korean made tools, usually. They use GOOD tools, and learn how to maintain and even "tune" them. A good shooter has to do the very same thing. Besides, that's sometimes and in some ways, as absorbing and "fun" as the shooting part. It can become another leg in the "eternal search for perfection," and I think most all the best shooters learn to do their own work. They may THEN give it to someone who does this part even BETTER than they do, but they know how to do it. Learning this helps understand just what it is that you're feeling as you pull that trigger, and helps you know how to "fix" stuff properly when you detect the need.

5. "A good handgun shooter needs strong forearms."

Yup! Wish you hadn't talked about the "D-word," though! Diet!? Yech! ;^) That old trick really works on the forearms and parts of the hands that help one grip stuff.

One other thing that really helps, that you'll never understand how MUCH it helps until you hurt it permanently and irreparably, is a good, strong BACK! I ga-ron-tee you this! Hurt mine darn good in ‘81, and it really affected my shooting. Mostly, at first, it affected my abilities during long strings of fire, but it WILL most definitely affect your ability to shoot in ANY amount to at least some degree. Imagine your upper torso being stable as a rock. Now, inject a mid-section that won't be still, and can't. See what I mean? No way a stable top is going to be any steadier than the middle will allow it to be. Like all athletic endeavors, shooting is a function of one's conditioning and the kind of shape one's in. That's one reason they work soldiers so hard in boot camp, and have regular PT. Looks like they did a superb job on our boys in Iraq, doesn't it? Practice and GOOD training ALWAYS show!

6. "If you shoot tin cans and dirt clods, you get sloppy."

Well, sure, if you do it just to hit the can. It's a lot of fun, though, and if you pick a small spot and aim for that, and CALL your shot to your buddies, you dang well better hit that spot or expect some ragging, and then THEY'll go and shoot your spot right off the can.

Plinking CAN be fun AND good practice, and if you're wanting to be a good field shot, I think the variable shapes and colors (often buff colored and sorta' cammo'd) can add SOME utility to the endeavor. A really great shot I know is fond of plinking pecans and pebbles out in his yard. I've rarely seen him shoot a tin can in years, unless it's at least 200 yds. away with a rifle or 100 with a pistol. It's just no fun to hit something that's easy, and it DOES make us sloppy. Besides, like I said, it's no fun, either. Good targets will ALWAYS be the arbiter for a shooter, though. There's no substitute.

(Cont'd. below)
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Whew! I didn't know this thing had a limit! OR that I'd gone on so long - AGAIN! Well .......... as I was saying:

One neat trick I think just might help some focus better, is an old trick I've been fond of doing for some time. Take an old std. model Ruger .22 auto, replace the rear sight with a MMC or similar small, low-riding adj. rear sight, and cut the barrel off just behind that huge, thick barrel band front sight, square it up and recrown and blue what's silver. Then get a Lyman Shorty ramp front in the right height, and put a small, 1/32" white bead front sight on it. That sight combination, with the little bead, will MAKE you go off looking for really small stuff to shoot at. That teensy bead makes a tin can look like a 5 gal. bucket when you aim at one. I've seen guys who shot so-so with a std. auto start shooting "above their head" with that small bead setup. It just tends to make them WANT to shoot "finer." Won't work with everyone, but even then, that little bead is just the size of a snake's head in the river, so it's one of the finest little "river guns" I've ever known. Just picked up one of the long barreled ones, and haven't got it tricked out yet. Haven't worked on the trigger or polished the feed ramp or done the sights, so y'all gonna' shoot circles around me at the Annual. You were going to do that anyway, but at least NOW I've got an excuse! :D

Boys, I haven't talked THIS seriously about shooting in a long time. Not many are this "into" shooting - REAL shooting. It makes me remember Mr. Roy Smith, the old gunsmith I used to buy my reloading stuff from. He knew I longed to become a good shot, and that old man, with that big, easy smile, soft voice and those coke-bottle glasses of his, taught me most of what I know, or at least what formed the foundation of what abilities I USED to have. He was one of those types of fellows you spoke of, above, Davy. I was there to buy some powder and primers when his wife and sister drove up. He'd been in the hospital, and I hadn't even known he'd been sick. He looked awful! NOT what I was used to seeing. He was in his pajamas, and they couldn't get him and his wheelchair up the steps, so naturally I helped get him up and in the house.

I don't think he recognized me. It still hurts even to this day to think of him like that, but ......... well, he'd told me he had problems, and I know this is all too often the way of the flesh. His wife, especially, showed that she was terribly concerned for Mr. Roy, and she thanked me, and clearly wanted to be left alone, so I just smiled, told her I was glad to have been able to help, and took my leave. I was trying not to show how much I was choking back during all this.

I don't think I smiled much for several days, the event impacted me so. I'd never realized just how much I loved and owed that old man. He died not long afterward. I didn't go to the funeral. Had to go to school, and I wanted to remember him with that big, unique smile of his, that slightly red face, the thin white hair, and those big coke bottle glasses. More than even that old Marine Dad of mine, I think Mr. Roy is the man who taught me how to shoot a pistol, and he did it without my really knowing he was doing it, too. Not many like him left these days, are there?

Ed, I want to thank you, son, and BP, too, for one FINE thread. It's brought back a lot of really good stuff from the memories I've accumulated, that have made me who and what I am today - the better part of me, anyway. Can't remember when I've enjoyed a thread so much. Thanks!
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Wal hell BW, since you feel that way about it, jiss brang me onena them pa-con pies all fer myself and we'll call it even.

I brang a jug of Evan and we'll talk about thiss stuff sum more.:D
That's a very impressive shooting career, BP. My hat's off to you sir.
Awright! Guess I don't have to work today. Somehow I thought bein the owner would let me work less an make more. Wrong. Makin more but workin a Lot more. Cant call the shop to say hey this guy needs help an I'm off for the night/weekend. Oh well. Praise the Lord I'm workin at all. Goin into biz in the slow time of the year was scary. But dangit, I got swamped so all is well. Guess the big shops are losing money an layin people off, too much overhead. As I said, Praise the Good Lord.

Interesting! I never read books on how to do stuff, because they never work. I've found that I may screw up a lot more, initially, but if I just "figure it out myself," the process gets me a lot more involved in what's going on, and I notice stuff I'd never notice if I were just following directions
All the how to books ever did for me was to point me in the right direction on somestuff to look for. That was helpful but since they never really say why something works, or that it worked for them but may or may not work for me cause I aint them, all it they are is a general pointer book. You & BP's writings are in the same catagory for me cause I read it and have yet to go do it thru work & snow. Every little bit helps if you pay attention. I get so much more out of less shooting lately that I know I'm on the right track. Jus gotta get out & practice more.

Only the guitar takes a LOT of finger dexterity that I apparently just don't have.
Me either. Good thing shooting is easier than playin guitar.

Interesting! I never read books on how to do stuff, because they never work. I've found that I may screw up a lot more, initially,
Thats cause you wrote / are writing the book, friend. When people are really good, they pick up where others left off and add some more chapters to the world archives. Thats you & BP. Guys like me with a will to do better, read your guys stuff and get a glean of what works, a little from each author, and keep what works for us and stop there, or get really good and take it further enough to write a couple chapters later on. Dunno where I'll wind up but I figure one thing, if I set my goal at an 'A', I'll get to C or B- maybe. (life just works that way). If I set out to be better than A class, world master, I may get to 'A'. With a little luck, I'll go zen with it and notice something no one else noticed before and tip myself into the awe inspiring class like you guys. Then maybe I can write a chapter or three.

4. "... but when you get to the point where your sear breaks when you think fire, you have arrived where all good pistol shooters must get to in order to be able to shoot well."
Sometimes I think I'm almost to this point. It aint like riding a bike though. Compressed (time) suprise break.

For fine, precise shooting, that means it has to be light, and maybe even more important than how light it is, within reason, it has to break EVERY TIME at the same exact pressure
This is interesting. All my guns have factory triggers and springs. Dunno if I could appreciate a fine trigger or not as I've never shot one. Well, I shot a guys rifle once that had a fine trigger. It seemed too light to me and I was happy to return to my factory trigger. But a pistol it wasn't so I really don't know bout that. I'm at the top of the ladder amongst the shooters I know personally so probably wont get the chance to experiance a good trigger to any degree unless I take the plunge and buy it myself. And what if I dont like it? Money down the crapper. I need a good weekend shooting a good trigger to be able to digest the potential gain for myself if I wanted to go to the next level with it or not. I likely would since good triggers on pistols are heavier than good triggers on rifles. IIRC, that guys rifle trigger was 1-1/2 lbs. I just barely started to think bout the press and bang. it was so barely that I think it was really a unintentional discharge...

Aww. Buddies furnace is out so I guess I am working today. More later..:ar15:
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You can get a Wolfe spring kit for your Ruger fairly cheap. Most are around 10 bucks or so from Midsouth Shooters Supply. Your Ruger uses coil springs that are easy to replace. Sometimes just doing that will make a LOT of difference in a trigger UNLESS it has bad (creepy) places in it. ALWAYS keep your original springs however because I have seen Smith's that would not fire when the mainspring was replaced. But they use leaf springs and it's a little more difficult to get them adjusted.

Oh, and one other thing, when you test the gun after putting in the Wolfe springs, test it on full loads. I once replaced the springs on a Smith L frame and didn't have time to go to the range to test full loads so I just loaded some primers and they all banged off in the house just fine.

I took that L frame to a "Falling Plate" match the next morning and it would not fire my full loads. When I got home, I tried it on primers again and it fired them fine!!! GO figure. I don't know why. I had to borrow a pistol to shoot the plate match. I put my original mainspring back in it and it fired everything just fine. My original spring is still in that Smith you betcha.

And be ESPECIALLY careful if you replace the trigger rebound spring because sometimes a marginal spring will not fully kick the trigger forward. But that rebound spring can make a BIG difference in trigger pressure so experiment with it by all means. It's no biggie if it doesn't work, just put the original back.

NEVER cut a coil or two off the original springs unless you have another one to replace it with if it is too light once you have cut it. Don't do it unless you want to wait until you can get a new spring anyway. And yeah, been there and done that too so I KNOW!

Actually, I do not like what I'd call "Light" triggers because when the adrenilin starts flowing, a light trigger can get you in trouble. When you are under immediate threat, you loose a lot of the finer motor skills and your body is able to only perform basic self defense actions as you have trained it to do. Heck, you don't even know how many rounds you've fired most of the time when somebody is shooting at you. You don't hear the shots and you can only see straight ahead right at the threat. It's really werid what happens to you. Everything is in slow motion.

I prefer my triggers to be a minimum 3 to 3 .5 pounds ( I prefer more on the order of four pounds on a rifle) but they must break clean with absolute no creep and go dead as soon as the sear breaks. I want no backlash. Of course, you want enough clearance that the trigger will always break. And if you shoot a Smith, it has a backlash adjustment (most do) but make sure when you set it, that it does NOT MOVE.

I once went into a situation with another deputy who was in front of me as we went into a dark store where we knew a burgler was present. I saw him bring up his service revolver ( a Smith model 19) and try to fire a shot as the subject ran out the back of a liquor store. His backlash adjustment had vibrated forward and would not allow the trigger to be pulled far enough backward to fire it. If the subject had not run, but had a gun and started shooting, it could have been a damm poor result. For that reason, you'll see a lot of law dogs fully remove that backlash adjustment so there is NO CHANCE it'll do that and get them killed.

I just Loc Tite mine and have never had any problem with it moving once it was adjusted. I've got a six inch barrel model 19 that was adjusted in 1970 and it has not moved in all those years. It was my service revolver when I was a law dogeux and it has never moved since the day I set it. You can also take a center punch and brad the set screw holding the backlash adjustment but once you do that, it is permanent because you can not move the screw to back it out. Course, if it's where you want it, who cares?

Another thing you can do to make a trigger "FEEL" like it is lighter than it really is, is to put a trigger shoe on it. This is the same effect you get with a wide "target " trigger. Because you have a lot more finger surface on the trigger, it "SEEMS" lighter than it would if you had a standard trigger in it.

In my opinion, this is folly. Most holsters are NOT designed for use with a wide trigger shoe and I've seen one case where a deputy had a trigger shoe on his service revolver and while shoving it back into the holster, that darn wide shoe caught on the side of the holster and cycled the hammer back and fired as it was shoved down into the holster. I don't know how far the deputy finally threw that trigger shoe once he got it off that revolver but I'll bet it was a world record pitch.

So make only the most minimal revisions to the exterior of your guns unless you want trouble. I've learned that the guys who make those things usually know what they are doing.

Oh, and if you are going to shoot NRA matches, the line judge has this little trigger weight thingie that he uses to test your triggers and if they don't weigh what they are supposed to weigh, you get DIS-QUALIFIED . Hee, heeeee.
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Oh I'd never cut any springs. Decided that long ago when Some guy cut his and was all excited about it and then it wouldnt fire. I never was a parts changer either. Lots of them guys go too far I think in their pursuit of race guns. If a guy cant use his gun for defense cause its too tight or too light, what good is it? Most I ever did was to polish the trigger & disconnector on my Colt, or change sights & grips.

10 Bucks is a cheap experiment though. I think I'll try a new spring kit like you suggested and see if it makes a difference. I like to practic DA so it may just help me out. I'll let you all know how it turns out.

I know what you mean about the slow motion under stress. I had a very close call once with my wife when we lived in Columbus. Two guys followed us off the bus and tried to get us to play their little three card monty game and were about to strong arm us but luckily I had my 45 that day and as the one guy was slow shuffling towards me from about two or three feet I kept giving ground, backing up, assessing the situation, until I felt him about to sucker punch me and I guess that was the straw cause suddenly everything went slow on me and a very focused yet perriphrial (?) vision set in (I could see him, his buddy, my wife, the tree branches blowing, the people in the background, the cars, everything, in total detail and at once) and I decided to act, I backstepped off the curb and swept my jacket back and grasped my pistol, but before I could even draw it, I seen the one guy 'fall' to the ground and his buddy brought his empty hands up and started to backpedal so I didnt even pull it. They assured me that 'we all friends here' and 'why you so uptight?' and started to leave. I got my pregnant wife by the arm and started us up the street at a fast pace in another direction. About a half block away I started shaking real bad and that lasted for about 20 minutes. My wife wanted to know why I was shaking. She didnt pick up on what was going on! We had a talk about that.

I practice fast draw from concealment, always have. As quick as I can draw, there was no way I could've seen all that I did in the middle of a draw sequence and decide not to act. Something happened and I had no clue what. The world did not slow down so I came to the conclusion that my mind speeded up giving the slow motion effect. I thought about that alot and eventually read about the phenomenon and thats exactly what happened. My Colt paid for itself that day and never left the holster. My heart rate is up just recounting the event.:eek:
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Yep. After it is all over, I get an intense pain at the base of my back that last for about 10 minutes. Doctors have told me that my central nervous system increases the spinal fluid pressure so much that it causes that pain when the pressure is released. Different people react to it in different ways but it is never pleasant.

One of the most bad bassed law dogs I ever saw was the hand to hand combat instructor for the Mississippi Highway Patrol. He was a Third Dan, Master grade, Karate competetor as well. His name is Reece Shook.

Reese got assigned to a detail that was to take down a known drug distribution house. The place was solid concrete block with no windows. There was only one front door and our information was that it opened into a small room where a very large black guy was on guard and the main door into the place was behind him. Whenever the cops had tried to raid it in the past, by the time they got inside, the druggies had flushed it all down the toilet.

The plan was for Reece to be the first one through the door and to take out the door guard and the breach team would rush past and ram open the main door and they would get inside before the druggies could destroy the dope.

So the breach team ramed the outside door and Reese ran in and groin kicked this VERY LARGE black guy, expecting him to fall. But the black guy was higher than a kite on the dope they were packaging and he didn't even know he had been kicked although X-rays would later show that Reece had ruptured BOTH of his testicles with that kick.

The big guy grabbed Reese and lifted him completely off the ground and started slaming him against that concrete wall. So Reece pulled his issued 16 shot 9mm and shot the guy 16 times but the big guy didn't know he had been shot so he kept on beating Reece against the wall. Nobody could get past any of this activity to breach the main door and the druggies were flushing everything. FINALLY, a deputy stuck his .357 magnum inside and blew the big guy's backbone in half and that ended that business.

They breached the main door and of course, found no drugs. Well, when the NAACP heard about this incident, they sued Reece for unnecessary use of force. And since we could not prove that a crime was in progress, they sued him for all sorts of things including murder.

I went to the trial and when Reece was on the witness stand, the attorney asked him why he found it necessary to shoot the guy 16 times. Reece said well, I just ran out of ammo or I would have shot him some more. The jury laughed and the judge cleared the court room of all spectators.

Reece was aquitted of all charges but then the damm Highway Patrol assigned him to a driver's license place because of all the publicity the NAACP had stirred up and Reece got PO'd and resigned. He owns a half interest in a car dealership now.

But he told me that even with all of the training that he had, that he went through that "decompression stage" just like the rest of us. I told him that if he had a real pistol, he wouldn't have had to shoot that big bass turd any dang 16 times either. He agreed but said that was what the highway patrol had issued him as a duty gun.

So everybody goes through those stages and those who know what to expect and have trained to deal with it can generally handle it better but we still have to handle it. Nobody get's that high on adrelinin without experiencing a big crash on the way back down and it is never fun. The most common reaction is to get sick on the stomach and throw up. I think that would be easier than have my dang back hurt like that.

But I'm an old fart now and the most excitement I want is wake up in the morning. I'm always pleased with that experience given the alternative.
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Ed, I've got a feeling you're going to wind up being even better than I USED to be. You've got all the qualities you need, and you've got the DESIRE, so my money's on YOU, son!

I don't think I'll ever be what I once was, but at least I can still hit a fairly large target, like an antagonist, if I need to. Only had to actually pull a gun once in "anger," and didn't have to pull the trigger - a fact I'm grateful for - but like both of you, and everyone I know who's had the experience, the "decompression" is something everyone seems to go through, in some manner. Some seem to forget it, curiously. I guess human behavior will never be uniform, but we're a lot more alike than we sometimes like to THINK we are. The main difference is how we process these things individually, and of course individual physiology will have some effect, too. There are a few - Col. Charles Askins comes to mind, from what I have read of him by those who knew him best - who actually seem to LIKE killing people. Those folks are few and far between, though, and that's GOOD! There are a very few individuals I know who I would have little feeling for, if they should give me reason to pull a trigger, but mostly - and this is VERY "politically incorrect" - I think most anyone who MADE me pull a trigger on them would mainly just make me VERY angry with them for having MADE me do so.

The amazing thing I've learned in what little experience I've had is that the value of TRAINING one's self CANNOT, I think, be fully appreciated unless and until you HAVE to put it into use. You WILL act in whatever manner you've TRAINED yourself to act in, including use of sights, if time is available - and one of the most surprising, if not mystifying thing to me, is that the one time I came right up to the point of the last few ounces on the trigger is that I KNEW I'd have to use the sights, because of the situation and circumstances, and I KNEW I'd do it, and do it well, and put the bullet in the brain. It's a damned humbling experience, and ironically, I think brings a man closer to God than he's probably ever been before. Strange, but that's my take on it. Maybe it brings us a little closer to the Devil simultaneously???? I don't think so, but I'm not entirely sure, to tell you the Truth.

Death is a funny thing. Being close to it, either your own or someone else's, is a very humbling and intense thing. It's the Ultimate Leveler of all beings, and I guess being in the presence of, and maybe part of it, brings the realization to the fore that it will one day overtake us, too, and all that we love and hold dear.
How could a man NOT be humbled by that realization????

Ed, I think all you've got left to do is just a bit of training, and you're not only going to be "at the top of the ladder" with those you know, you're going to add a few rungs of your own to that ladder. Best part is, when you do that, you'll make the guys around you better shots, and that will make you even better your own self! Ain't it nice how it works that way?

A big thumb's up to you, and just keep on keepin' on, son! You're already on your way.
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Maybe if I could get to go shoot! The mountains are snowed over and I keep having to work every weekend. At least the ammo is stacking up instead for after the thaw.

Man,thats a prettty scary story there BP. I dont think they could pay me enough to be a cop and do a raid like that.

Are Smith triggers hard to adjust for backlash? We got a 29-2 and You got me curious to check it out. I dont hardly ever shoot it prefering to spend time with the RH instead, so I dont even know if it needs it but am still curious.

Thanks for the kind words BW. I been takin it easy on the shooting pros by not ever entering any matches, so's not to wreck the curve!;) but maybe one day I'll quit feeling so kindly and go write some chapters for em'! (the coffee should kick in soon.)

Gotta get ready and go bang some more tin...
At present, I only have three Smith's. Only one of them has a back lash adjustment. It is a Mod 19-3. The Mod. 29-2 and 63 do not have an adjustment. The Mod. 19-3 is adjusted by the screw in the lock plate at the bottom near the trigger. The adjustable slide behind the trigger is locked down by that screw ( I think). It has been a long time since I've been inside of that revolver and there MAY BE a locking screw inside UNDER the lock plate. Seems to me like there is but I don't remember. It would almost HAVE to have one because I would have never locked the plate screws with Loc Tite and I do remember locking the set screw that locks the adjustment with it.

Anyway, it can't be difficult or I could never have done it. I had a Mod. 66 but I don't remember if it had a backlash adjustment on it or not. And I had a Mod. 686 but all of that was a long time ago and I don't remember about backlash adjustment or if it even had one.

Who knows? Smith may have tried it on the Mod. 19-3 and never put it on anything else because like I said, a lot of people I knew took it out and threw it away because if it malfunctioned, you couldn't pull the trigger and sometimes that can cause severe anxiety and run the pucker factor up to a 10 real quick. Mine has been right where it is since 1970 when I set it with Loc Tite. It has never caused any problems. You don't have one on your Mod. 29-2 to adjust anyway so what the heck?

But some guys that shot bullseye matches with revolvers had a little lump of metal like a wire weld knot welded to the back side of their triggers and it was filed down so that it acted like a backlash stop. That worked well and since they only shot targets with it, there was no danger of a piece of trash getting wedged behind the trigger and freezing it up in a critical moment. As target shooters, they could keep everything neat and clean so as to prevent that. I've also seen them super glue little rubber pencil erasers to the back inside of the trigger guard to act as a stop and all sorts of things like that. I've seen little screws threaded through the trigger and stopped against the rear of the trigger guard. But most of the better competetors didn't have that sort of thing on their revolvers. You win matches by sight picture and trigger control --- not by gadgets. At least, that is the way it works in 2700 bullseye matches.

I forgot to mention that at the 4 th Annual shootout last weekend, I saw Elmer Keith's pistol shooting exploits duplicated MANY times by Jeff Vickers. We had a gong that was about 9 inches wide and about 13 or 14 inches high that was at a measured 400 meters. I think that is about 440 yards. Jeff stood and stuck his pistol out and shot that gong and dinged it and then had the stones to say DARN. I hit it low on the left side and then proceeded to shoot it again and hit it in the middle! But of course, he had been doing that sort of thing all day but he is an accomplished long range shooter and it was no big deal for him just as it was no big deal for Elmer.
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Hey hey, the drywallers and electricians fell behind, gives me the weekend off. Maybe I can get up to bang some primers this time..

Whats that standard again? 440 yds, 'in the middle'. (!) OK. Well I've always said them Rugers shoot like rifles. Too bad I got no place to shoot at that distance. If I could call em like that at 100 I'd be comin home feelin good. Haven't picked up any targets yet but I'll find something.

Aw but shootin like that at that distance can't be that hard. Most folks cant do it simply cause they never tried, myself included. Jus' a few practice shots to show whats required in sight pic and squeeze, and bang, I'll be there too. Then all thats left is to do in front of witnesses so's they can write my name in the little book!;)

Didja guys make any videos of the shoot?
Cisco hadda movie camera but I tried to stay away from it. No sense in providing the prosecution with any evidence is the way I see it.
Black Prince my biggest character flaw is I like to "show off". I'm sorry, I shouldn't have done it. I never met Mr. Keith but I admired his ability to "will" a bullet. I shouldn't be compared, but I appreciate the compliment.
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