[ruger9]

OK, so it's almost time for me to buy my next rifle, which I have decided is going to be a bolt-action, scoped, "tack driver". I'll only need accuracy out to 300 yds, and won't be using it for anything other than targets.

I know the calibers aren't even close, but still having a hard time deciding...

.22lr- much cheaper ammo, easier/funner(?) to shoot/no recoil

.308- a "sniper caliber", and of course if I ever DID want to use it for hunting, I could. But alot of recoil , ammo expensive

The 2 guns I would buy are both Savage: the MkII BV in .22lr or the Trophy Hunter in .308

I realize this is a bit apples and oranges, and am surprised that I am having such a hard time with it (ditto for my decision process over a Golden Boy .22lr or Big Boy .357mag, lol)

Can the .22lr be a tack driver at 300 yds? Would I need match grade ammo?

Any comments welcome, I know this is kind of a strange comparison. I only ask we not bring up other calibers such as .243, etc, as I finally narrowed it down to these 2 very different calibers, and don't want to backtrack.

 

[old grump]

Tack driver at 300 no, competitive at 200 yes, tack driver at 100 yes. The 22 is just to light and wind sensitive for serious shooting at that range unless you use premium ammo and you are shooting a serious bench rest class gun and there goes your savings. If you do not mind small calibers then I would recommend you look at these. .223 Remington, .22-.250 Remington, .243 Winchester or 6mm Remington. All of them will handle 300 yards fine, double and varmint guns and if need be can go deer hunting with you.

By the way the .308 is not a sniper round, it is just one of the chamberings used in some sniper rifles. Don't take gun lore from TV programs. When I see some bimbo at a crime scene in high heels pick up a spent bullet, look at it and tell you that it was from a .308 M700 LRT Rifle with a Leupold scope, shot by a left handed shooter with arthritis in his pinky finger and a Lithuanian accent I could scream. It could have been from a M70 Ruger 30-06 or a Weatherby MK V 300 mag or a H&R .308 Handi rifle.

Okay, mini-rant over.

Money and ammo availability wise I would look at the .223 or .243 first.

 

[ruger9]

Like I said...
"I only ask we not bring up other calibers such as .243, etc, as I finally narrowed it down to these 2 very different calibers, and don't want to backtrack. "

But thanks for the other info. I'd like the round to be good at 300yds. only because that's the longest range around here. If I go up to .243, I'll go all the way up to .308 for the versatility. That's why it's apples vs oranges: 22lr for mere 300yd fun, or .308 for a do-it-all, including 300yd fun.

 

[Holmes375]

I enjoy long range shooting with rimfires but 300 is too much for 'em.

The 308 is incredibly versatile and a good bolt gun can be put together for a reasonable price, especially if 300 yards is your long fun. You won't need the heavy barrels, high end scopes, comp triggers, etc.

A good Savage or Remington, perhaps second hand, will do the job sweetly combined with any of the affordable but quality 3-9x scopes in a good set of rings.

You can reduce shooting cost dramatically if you reload or you can save some by purchasing re-manufactured ammo. Freedom Munitions is a good supplier.

Hope this helps and have fun.

 

[old grump]

Like I said...
"I only ask we not bring up other calibers such as .243, etc, as I finally narrowed it down to these 2 very different calibers, and don't want to backtrack. "

But thanks for the other info. I'd like the round to be good at 300yds. only because that's the longest range around here. If I go up to .243, I'll go all the way up to .308 for the versatility. That's why it's apples vs oranges: 22lr for mere 300yd fun, or .308 for a do-it-all, including 300yd fun.

No contest then. look at bolt actions in .308 like the Savage for the best quality for the buck and save your money for ammo.

 

[justasking]

For 300 yards, .308 hands down. My personal arsenal is .22, .223, .308, 12 ga, .40 s&w. .22 is bolt action remington and two variations of the ruger 10/22. .223 is bolt action savage and mini 14. .308 is bolt action savage. 12 ga is ithaca model 37 pump. You may get a wide variety of opinions on this, but within your parmeters, it's .308.

Do you have a .22? Forgive my ignorance. If you somehow don't have a .22 i would have to say you NEED a .22....there. I said it. I Have kept it very simple for myself and i do reload, but if you don't even reload..you NEED a .22. There, I said it again. Big fan of shooting a TON. Dollars get in the way with the .308...with the .22, not so much.

God Bless!

Ron

 

[Jeff F]

Justasking said it pretty much. I would start with a .22 and save up for the .308 for later if you don't already have a .22. You can shoot a bunch with a .22 for not a lot of money and really build your accuracy. I know a few guys that pop aspirin tablets at 100 yards with tack-driving .22's.

 

[Holmes375]

I'd have to agree with Justasking and Jeff. If you don't presently have a 22 rifle you definitely should get it first for all the reasons they stated.

I assumed you were contemplating building a long range competition-style 22 and already had a standard rimfire rifle. My assumptions and I often take a left turn in to neverneverland

Aspirin at 100 is impressive to say the least - both on the rifle and the shooter. I play with generic alka-seltzer occasionally at that range. When I do connect its a hoot!

 

[ruger9]

I have a 10/22, fun gun, not scoped. If IT would do the job @300yds, I'd just use it. I was kind of hoping to get a bolt/longer barrel 22 like the Savage and stretch it out to 300. But it seems 300 is just too much for the little round. .22lr saves a ton of money, is relatively quiet, and you can shoot 100 rounds no problem... 100 rounds of .308 is much more punishing/tiring.

I actually did consider the .243, but figured if I was going "up", I'd go all the way up to .308 for the versatility. I'm not a hunter, but if I ever need to be, a .308 would git 'er done no problem. I know the .243 will too- but it takes much more precise shot placement and skill/experience, which I will not have. Also, I've read the .243 doesn't buck the wind nearly as well as the .243 (and of course, the .22lr doesn't really buck wind much at all).

Here's a slight modification to the question: what if 200 yds was the limit? Would a .22lr handle that? Or even .22 mag maybe? As stated above, I also am a big fan of "shooting alot"- especially when working on long range skills, and any version of the .22 would be infinitely more affordable than .308. Most ranges around here only go out to 200 yds, but there are a couple that go to 300.

I guess I was hoping to get a .22 "tack driver", and only buy a .308 if I ever needed a deer gun. I've already got a mini-30 and don't need another rifle for defense/plinking. Between the 10/22 and mini-30 (both iron sites), I can do all the shooting I'll ever need... that is, until I got interested in long-range+optics shooting.

And the reason I thought a .22lr would get the job done is, I was interested in a Henry Golden Boy, and have seen several videos of that gun hitting targets beyonds 200 yds. Even w/o a scope, in one case.

And, to be clear, don't get too hung up on "tack driver"- at 300 yds, if I could get fist-sized groups, that'd be alright with me. That's probably outside the definition of "tack driver", I'm guessing?

 

[ruger9]

I assumed you were contemplating building a long range competition-style 22 and already had a standard rimfire rifle. My assumptions and I often take a left turn in to neverneverland
!

Your assumptions are correct!

 

[ruger9]

ok, ok... on another forum, found a great thread about long-range shooting with the .22lr, and it even had links to videos. Here's one, 10/22 Target, hitting a bullet trap, at 400 yds. That kind of accuracy would be a-ok with me. This would be just for fun, not for competition, so perhaps my use of the term "tack-driver" is misplaced?

I have a 10/22, and might consider scoping it, IF it could do this. But then, NOT scoping it, keeping it for offhand plinking, and having a dedicated scoped "distance" rifle gives me an excuse to buy another rifle! :lol: As I said, I was looking at the Savage MkII BV.

 

[gaweidert]

One problem with the 22 round is it's muzzle velocity. It exits the barrel at supersonic speeds but quickly drops to subsonic velocity. As it does this it passes trough the mach buffet which makes the round wobble a bit reducing accuracy. The 308 is still supersonic out past 600 yards or more depending upon the round.

Match quality 22 rounds are subsonic out of he barrel eliminating the wobble and even eh crack you hear when you fire the gun.

As stated above the round is also affected by wind. It is traveling less than half the speed of the .308 round so it takes longer to get to the target. More time in fligt, more time to get knocked around by the wind.

 

[justasking]

Thanks for clearing that up for me. Now I would wander over a little and say you are a prime candidate for a .223 bolt action. Ammo is quite cheap, even more so if you reload. 300 yards is no problem. The round is nicely accurate with no fuss at all and recoil is minimal. I know you wanted .22 or .308, but if recoil bothers you a all and deer hunting is nothing more than a maybe....I shot my first deer at 173 laser measured yards with a .223 in the heart.....just saying. Out to 150 I think you already have deer hunting covered anyway. I wouldn't shoot another one that far with my .223...it was my first. I think you have deer hunting covered with the mini 30 for most sensible and typical scenarios...especially if you have never done it. The right ammo and you basically have a semi-auto 30-30. something to consider as you decide.

God Bless!

Ron

 

[LunaticFringeInc]

I have a Marlin XT-22 bull barrel rifle and a Remington 700 VLS. After watching the video I think he makes a damned good argument for the 22 rim fire agumenting his skill building so when he does shoot his larger center fires he can get the most from them! What really got my attention if I remember correctly and got the right vid, he made a comment about shooting the rim fire at 300 yards was akin to shooting the 308 out to 1000 yards due to the bullet drop and wind drift being comparable and in close proximity. Dont know how much truth there is to that but it sounds like it could be plausable.

One thing is for sure though.... a 22 rim fire can shoot some amazing groups at 75 yards if you do your part. I know a few folks who can do some amazing things with a 22 rim fire out to double that. I suppose I could too if I put that many rounds through my 22 every week and got the drop and drift down as well as they do too. One thing is certian though with a lot of this type practice...you should greatly improve your skill when you shoot a center fire next time and be able to make each round fired count!

Its a long video but I encourage you to watch it! There is a lot of golden nuggets of info in it.

 

[old grump]

Here's a slight modification to the question: what if 200 yds was the limit? Would a .22lr handle that? Or even .22 mag maybe? As stated above, I also am a big fan of "shooting alot"- especially when working on long range skills, and any version of the .22 would be infinitely more affordable than .308. Most ranges around here only go out to 200 yds, but there are a couple that go to 300.

22's that I shoot at 200 yards:

S&W M41 pistol
Ruger Single Six New Model Revolver
Ruger 10/22 target rifle, (scoped)
Ruger 10/22 carbine
Marlin 60
Savage single shot Bolt Action.

All with iron sights except where noted and the last two guns are 49 years old.

Fist sized groups are doable with all the rifles and 5 gallon bucket size groups with the two handguns. Make sure there is a range flag up at the shooting line and at the target line and learn to read the wind. With your scope learn to read mirage. You will find that ammo choice out to 50 yards is not real critical, to be a match winner at 100 yards it is a factor and even more so at 200 yards. Stay away from the hyper velocity stuff they will wander here and there after they drop below the sound barrier. A standard or high velocity 50 gr solid will be your best choice at that range for the best consistent groups. I find the light weight hyper velocity bullets are fun but indifferent as far as where they are going to go on the target after you pass 100 yards.

 

[ruger9]

Not subsonic? The general consensus seems to be subsonic ammo doesn't suffer those effects? Or is that only true at the shorter 50-100 yd distances? For 200 is the high velocity stuff pretty much required?

 

[old grump]

Not subsonic? The general consensus seems to be subsonic ammo doesn't suffer those effects? Or is that only true at the shorter 50-100 yd distances? For 200 is the high velocity stuff pretty much required?

I have had luck shooting 40 gr high velocity rounds at 200 yards with all brands but CCI mini mag and Winchester Super X worked out the best for me. I have never shot subsonic past 25 yards and only shoot them for matches because in my toy store they are hard to get hold of.

Shooting Remington Golden Bullets, the round everybody loves to hate I consistently get hits on a 5 gallon jug with my pistol and revolver shooting offhand. From the bench on a good shooting day I can score more then 50% hits on a bowling pin or on 2 liter water filled jugs with the same ammo. I shoot them because the price is right and when I can't get anything else I can always get them. Fail to Fire rounds in my pistol or 10/22's get reloaded in my bolt action or my revolver and they almost always go bang.

If somebody says lets have a match or if I am participating in a postal match out comes the good stuff.

 

[ruger9]

I think, after all the advice, I'm going to go ahead and go with a .22lr. It will allow me to learn scope skills and shooting trajectory/wind skills, cheaply.

And while I will be getting a Savage bolt action to be my "target rifle" (any excuse to get a new gun!), until then I'm going to scope my 10/22 and use it... since a 16"-18" is all that is needed with a .22lr anyway, from everything I read.

If I discover I like the discipline, I'll spend some money on a larger caliber... .223, .243, .308.

 

[LunaticFringeInc]

Sounds like a good plan of action! The 22 rim fire doesnt get near as much credit as it should. For that next caliber I would seriously consider the 223. Ammo is cheap and you can throw a bullet out there pretty far and get in some primo practice before moving up to something a little more expensive to shoot like the 308 or better. The other added benefit to the 223 would be the fact that in a bull barreled version, you should be able to spot your own misses becuase recoil is rarely enough to disturb your sight pictuire through a scope.

 

[justasking]

Cant really go wrong with a .22 a .223 and a .308 as a rifle set in bolt or semi autos. My favorite 3 calibers. My needs are met. I think most people would agree the rest is all personal preference and how much do you have for spending. It's all very, very good.

God Bless!

Ron