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Old 04-25-2009, 01:40   #1
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Advantages/Disadvantages of the SKS & Mini-14

I thought I'd like to add my thoughts into the talk. I will soon, God-willing, buy myself an SKS because no other rifle offers more.

God bless!


SKS and Mini-14

H.& H. = Hand to Hand


SKS Pos
1. Battle Rifle
a. Durable
b. Ideal; made for H.& H. Combat
c. Ability to accept Bayonette
d. Easy Disassembly
e. Reliable
f. Proven in the Battlefield
g. Simple to use and Operate.

2. Bayonette fixed to Barrel
a. Always there & ready to unfold when needed

3. Stripper clip (10rd clip fed into Internal Mag)
a. Avoidance mag. spring wearout
b. Daily Loading and unloading avoided
c. Stripper Clip MUCH more Cheaper than Magazines
d. Loading very easy.

4. Length of Rifle. ideal for H to H Combat

5. Affordable to Buy

6. Easy to clean

7. Heavier Bullet (7.62x39mm) =
a. Sure Man-stopping ability
b. Assured Painful Injury/Lethality
c. Made for harsh envoirnment

8. Sporter and other Stocks available (ex. Stock featuring Picatinny Rails)

9. Intimidating.

SKS Neg
1. Maybe less accurate (but more accurate than AK due to length of Barrel)

2. Some may not feature Bayonette

3. Slower to load clip (placing, pushing 10rnds in, pulling clip out)

4. Heavier

5. Too Long for easy room clearing and exits w/out being spotted first.

6. Bullet caliber unsafe for neighbors (easy penetration through walls).

7. Crude Sights hinders accuracy

8. Heavier Bullet = Heavy Recoil, Muzzle Jump, aimed rapid firing difficult

9. Expensive Quality Rounds (20rds for approx. $20)

SKS Rebutt
1. Inaccuracy can be helped by:
a. Synthetic Stock
b. Muzzle compensater may help accuracy
c. Firefights often occur at 30-200m

2. Order Bayonette

3. More Ammunition ready for use than 4 mags that's needed to reload after emnty

4. Possible light Synthetic Stock available

5. NC (No Contest)

6. NC

7. Peep sight available

8. Easy Rapid fire can be possible by
a. Muzzle Compensator
b. Synthetic Stock

9. W/ Iraq Economy Improving, quality Rounds cheaper.



Mini-14 Pos.
1. Accurate

2. Shorter, smaller
a. Suitable CQB
b. Easier to carry
c. Lighter

3. Cheaper Round (5.56mm)

4. Faster Reloading (Magazine fed)

5. Lighter bullet =
a. less recoil
b. reduced, muzzle jump,
c. easy rapid firing
d. Quicker Target sighting
e. very accurate Bullet
f. Safer for Neighbors (reduced Penetration through walls)
g. Wounding effect, extremely great (Hydro-shock effect).

6. Adjustable Windage

7. Based on the M-14 battle Rifle

Mini-14 Neg
1. Daily Loading/Unloading Bullets to/from Magazines

2. Smaller length ill-suited for H to H combat

3. No Bayonette

4. Stocks w/ Picatinny rails may not be available

5. Some Mini' does not have Scope rails for Picatinny installment

6. Magazines costly ($30-50 each opp. to $2-4 stripper clip)

7. 5.56mm not a perfect man-stopper.

8. May not be as reliable or easy to maintain as M-14 or SKS

9. Not Long enough for H. to H. Combat or may not be suitable.

10. Expensive

Mini-14 Rebutt
1. NC

2. Rare for H. to H. Combat

3. Same as #2

4. Rails available for scope mount or Red-dot e-sight

5. Newer Mini' does

6. NC

7. Wounding Effect sufficient, combat proven round

8. If Based on M-14, it may be just as reliable

9. Same as #3

10. Good investment if you value shorter, lighter rifle in 5.56mm


Last edited by agur3046; 04-25-2009 at 13:26.
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Old 04-29-2009, 13:10   #2
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Old 04-29-2009, 14:22   #3
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You are doing an apple and orange comparison. You should be comparing the SKS to the Mini-30. At least the have equal calibers. Oh, and you are wrong about accuracy. The Minis are no better than the SKS. In fact the inaccuracy of the Minis is generally the biggest complaint about them. How do I know this, because I own a Mini-30 and have owned numerous SKS, everything from Russian Armory rebuilds to the Norinco Paratrooper which used AK mags.
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Old 04-29-2009, 14:36   #4
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Originally Posted by Bear 45/70 View Post
You are doing an apple and orange comparison. You should be comparing the SKS to the Mini-30. At least the have equal calibers. Oh, and you are wrong about accuracy. The Minis are no better than the SKS. In fact the inaccuracy of the Minis is generally the biggest complaint about them. How do I know this, because I own a Mini-30 and have owned numerous SKS, everything from Russian Armory rebuilds to the Norinco Paratrooper which used AK mags.
Perhaps my experience differed from yours because I both shot using the Mini-14 and the SKS. IMHO I find that the Mini to be more accurate than the SKS but then again I have not shot Mini-30 as you do. Mind you, the 5.56mm is generally a more accurate round than a 7.62x39.

I do not claim anything of an expert, I should have said that from the beginning but these are my thoughts observations.

Respectfully
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Old 04-29-2009, 14:51   #5
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Originally Posted by agur3046 View Post
Perhaps my experience differed from yours because I both shot using the Mini-14 and the SKS. IMHO I find that the Mini to be more accurate than the SKS but then again I have not shot Mini-30 as you do. Mind you, the 5.56mm is generally a more accurate round than a 7.62x39.

I do not claim anything of an expert, I should have said that from the beginning but these are my thoughts observations.

Respectfully
You would be wrong in your assessment of the accuracy of these rounds. Are you aware that the two best bench rest rounds are the 22PPC and the 6mmPPC, which are based off the 7.62X39. The 7.62X39 brass is inherently accurate. In both case the firearm has more to do with accuracy than the round. But if you hang around the Mini-14 boards much, the biggest squawk about them is accuracy. Oh yeah, I have bolt guns in both 223 Remington and 7.62X39 and you wouldn't want to bet your life on the difference. Also I had an SKS, the Russian armory rebuild that actually shot 1.5 MOA, very few Minis will do better than that. If what I say is wrong, why is it the Mini Forum has a seperate Forum for Accurizing the Minis.

Last edited by Bear 45/70; 04-29-2009 at 14:54.
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Old 04-29-2009, 15:23   #6
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Originally Posted by Bear 45/70 View Post
You would be wrong in your assessment of the accuracy of these rounds. Are you aware that the two best bench rest rounds are the 22PPC and the 6mmPPC, which are based off the 7.62X39. The 7.62X39 brass is inherently accurate. In both case the firearm has more to do with accuracy than the round. But if you hang around the Mini-14 boards much, the biggest squawk about them is accuracy. Oh yeah, I have bolt guns in both 223 Remington and 7.62X39 and you wouldn't want to bet your life on the difference. Also I had an SKS, the Russian armory rebuild that actually shot 1.5 MOA, very few Minis will do better than that. If what I say is wrong, why is it the Mini Forum has a seperate Forum for Accurizing the Minis.
I do have to say that I didn't know how poor the accuracy is with the Mini but I do know that it is not as accurate as the M4 carbine (both seemed to be at the same length so that's interesting). It makes sense now why both rifles equaled in accuracy.

Thank you for your input on this
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Old 05-19-2009, 20:31   #7
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Neither rifle is great outside 300 yards when it comes to stopping power but there are tens of thousands of Viet Nam veterans on both sides that won't argue the stopping power of either.

Both are tough as toenails but I'd hesitate to break down a door with a Mini-14. The Mini-14 uses NATO ammunition so it would be available from US forces. You could lift 7.62X39 off expired UN Troops.

The open sights of the SKS leave me wanting more, the peep of the Mini is superior in that department. The SKS carries an internal cleaning kit and that's a plus.

The 7.62X39 zeroed at 250 yards rises to +7.5" at 150 yards and drops to -9.5" in the next 50. The 223 zeroed at 250 yards rises to +3.8" and drops to -4.8" so the .223 looks better there.

The SKS weighs 8.8 lbs, 200 rounds of 7.62X39 weighs 8.75 lbs. The Mini-14 weighs 6.6 lbs and 200 rounds in magazines weighs 8.75 lbs!!! Advantage Ruger!!

All told, both rifles have their pluses and adherents. Both have minuses and detractors. Both are eminently capable of performing their assigned functions. The bottom line is always dance with the one you brung and be "well regulated" with it because no zombie shot solidly with either will complain for long.

By the way; I own both a 1950 matching Tula and two model 186 Mini-14s. The SKS is stock and the Minis have both been modified to improve their accuracy. I paid $175.00 for the SKS 29 years ago and almost $800 for the Minis. The Minis are built for the use of my wife and our (female) best friend, both of whom find the SKS too heavy for extended carrying. My chosen battle weapon is a loaded M1A Springfield. If the SHTF, the SKS would stay in the safe and the rifles that shoot NATO ammo would go with us. I suppose I'd have to be counted in the Mini-14 camp for that reason alone.

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Old 05-19-2009, 23:46   #8
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Originally Posted by fclight View Post
Neither rifle is great outside 300 yards when it comes to stopping power but there are tens of thousands of Viet Nam veterans on both sides that won't argue the stopping power of either.

Both are tough as toenails but I'd hesitate to break down a door with a Mini-14. The Mini-14 uses NATO ammunition so it would be available from US forces. You could lift 7.62X39 off expired UN Troops.

The open sights of the SKS leave me wanting more, the peep of the Mini is superior in that department. The SKS carries an internal cleaning kit and that's a plus.

The 7.62X39 zeroed at 250 yards rises to +7.5" at 150 yards and drops to -9.5" in the next 50. The 223 zeroed at 250 yards rises to +3.8" and drops to -4.8" so the .223 looks better there.

The SKS weighs 8.8 lbs, 200 rounds of 7.62X39 weighs 8.75 lbs. The Mini-14 weighs 6.6 lbs and 200 rounds in magazines weighs 8.75 lbs!!! Advantage Ruger!!

All told, both rifles have their pluses and adherents. Both have minuses and detractors. Both are eminently capable of performing their assigned functions. The bottom line is always dance with the one you brung and be "well regulated" with it because no zombie shot solidly with either will complain for long.

By the way; I own both a 1950 matching Tula and two model 186 Mini-14s. The SKS is stock and the Minis have both been modified to improve their accuracy. I paid $175.00 for the SKS 29 years ago and almost $800 for the Minis. The Minis are built for the use of my wife and our (female) best friend, both of whom find the SKS too heavy for extended carrying. My chosen battle weapon is a loaded M1A Springfield. If the SHTF, the SKS would stay in the safe and the rifles that shoot NATO ammo would go with us. I suppose I'd have to be counted in the Mini-14 camp for that reason alone.

FL
Why would anyone in their right mind try shooting anyone a 300 yards with either round. If I was gonna try it, the bigger bullet is gonna do more damage, if and it is a big if, you hit the target. The ballistics difference between the two rounds are just numbers. You wanna shoot 300 yards get a 308.

If you don't have your own ammo supply stashed then you deserve to die.

Like wise the weight of the two rifles is irrelevant as is the ammo issue, you will be defending your chosen fort, hideout, home, whatever. Not chasing BGs all over hill and dale.

If the price of your SHTF weapon determines what you get, the you didn't plan far enough ahead to get what you need.
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Old 05-20-2009, 07:34   #9
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The Mini-14 can be improved with a flash suppressor and good magazines. I scrapped a number of aftermarket magazines which were junk or crapped out. If Ruger would sell more hi cap magazines at a reasonable price then most of the reliability problems would go away. The only aftermarket magazines that work right for me are the polymer Pro Mag 30 rounders which feed flawlessly and drop when released.

I have a Yugo SKS which is reliable and has a good bore, an important factor with used milsurp rifles. I had a Russian SKS which had a bore in bad shape and it couldn't hit a target consistently at 50 yards which I got rid of. With the SKS you need stripper clips for fast reloads.

The SKS has a price advantage over the Mini-14 but as the supply dries up this is also changing. When I got my Mini-14 in 1978 I paid $179 for it. AR-15s were sellling for $400 at the time and those were the A1 configuration with the triangular hand guard before the A2 rifles came out.

Both the Mini-14 and SKS rifles in good condition will work well in areas under 200 yards for anything farther you need a .308 or more powerful caliber.
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Old 05-20-2009, 08:01   #10
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Get a Mini-30.
I have one and it's just as accurate as a Mini-14, plus the 7.62x39 has quite a bit more punch, just doesn't shoot as flat as the 5.56.
Load up on a bunch of Promag steel 10 rounders and you're set.

People talk about the 7.62x39 like it's horribly innaccurate, in reality inaccuracy is caused by cheap commie ammo and cheap commie guns which make up the bulk of the 7.62x39 world.

Ask anyone who handloads that round (or drops a lot of cash for the Cor-Bon stuff) and runs it through a quality rifle what they think of it's accuracy.
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Old 05-20-2009, 21:09   #11
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At 300 yards the 7.62X39 still has 624 ft/lbs of energy and the 223 still has 511 ft/lbs of energy. By comparison a .22 long rifle has about 140 ft/lbs of energy at 50 yards and I don't know many people that would ignore a .22 at 50 yards!!

While both the .223 or the 7.62 will indeed bounce off Superman at 300 yards, they will both leave a serious dent in your noggin and will punch a hole in your chest if you don't have on body armor. A wounded person on the battlefield requires 6 people in the rear to take care of him and until you can get him off the field he's gonna lay there screaming to his mother and demoralize everyone who happens to be hiding in the brush nearby hoping to keep from getting the next BB.

I don't want to shoot anybody at 300 yards. I want to shoot them at 500 and that is why I DO have a .308. If you can't hit a person at 500 yards (the Marine Quarter Mile) then you need to get back in the kitchen!! My girls can hold 2.5" groups at 100 yards with their Minis. That works out to 7.5" at 300 yards. Even accounting for the trajectory that's still a head shot anywhere from the muzzle out to 300!

The object of the thread was to compare the relative positives and negatives of the SKS vs the Mini-14. Neither are long range rifles but I'd rather have either if the alternative was nothing no matter what the range. The biggest factor in winning a gunfight is to have a gun!

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Old 06-12-2009, 01:28   #12
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Have you all watched the guy on "Youtube", who shoots his Mini 30 at a 16" or so target from 420 yards? The target is filmed and the hits seem to almost impact right at the bottom.

He also shoots his LE #4, one shot per second. Not so easy for a lefty (like me).
Don't know how to create links, connect cameras, 'burn cds' etc.

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Old 06-12-2009, 05:52   #13
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4SVwSGPLOc
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Old 07-04-2009, 22:55   #14
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they claim it was a 24" target, but it really seem to be A LOT bigger than that. (either that or the distance is actually not that far, just up the hill).

Not impressed

the mini30 is all cool until the firing pin breaks (and it will if you shoot mil ammo).....
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Old 09-21-2009, 08:12   #15
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own both an norc SKS and a mini 30. Norc is a little more comfortable to shoot, but other than that, they both perform the same. Same accuracy (3-4 inches offhand at 100 yards), both wearing tapco stocks. The real difference is the price of the SKS and the trade offs you make for a lower price. My mini has a truly detachable magazine, my SKS does not. My mini came in stainless which I prefer my SKS does not. My mini has a much nicer trigger and no problems with slam fires or the hammer following down, doubling, etc., which can be quite common on the SKS. My mini cost me $700, my SKS cost me $100. Now that you can't seem to touch an SKS for under $400 here in CT and the SKS-D and others designed to use the AK mag are approaching AR-15 prices here in CT ($900-$1500), I don't see much advantage in buying further SKS rifles. For the money the advantages of the Mini seem to outweigh the meager savings in buying an SKS, if there are any savings. Now if the SKS ever drops below $200 again, I'd probably buy 10 of them. But right now they are just to expensive to put up with the trade offs, in my opinion.
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Old 09-22-2009, 19:13   #16
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you're right louie sks prices have gone sky high I haven't seen any for less than 250-300$$ that were in near-new condition in some years.
paratroop models are even more expensive.
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Old 09-28-2009, 12:19   #17
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As someone has already said, this is an apples-and-oranges comparison. I have a Romanian SKS and a 196-series Mini that I bought about six years ago. I know Minis aren't supposed to be very accurate, but at least out to 200 yards (the limit of my range), mine is dead on. Iron sights only.

That said, if the S really did HTF in a major way, neither gun would be my primary weapon. I'd pick either my AR-15 or my Springfield M1A, depending upon the circumstances. I'd give my wife the Mini, because of its light weight and easy handling.

If you don't have your own ammo supply stashed then you deserve to die.
This was uncalled for. The poster who talked about scavenging ammo from fallen foes in a really apocalyptic scenario neither said nor implied anything about not having stored ammo already.
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Old 10-11-2009, 16:30   #18
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Check out his home page you might find something on there that will. I usually like to post my own video or targets that either match or best the competition. As my father says it ain't braggin if you can do it.

http://www.youtube.com/user/mag30th#...99531797C09F77
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Old 02-08-2010, 02:42   #19
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Originally Posted by Bear 45/70 View Post
You would be wrong in your assessment of the accuracy of these rounds. Are you aware that the two best bench rest rounds are the 22PPC and the 6mmPPC, which are based off the 7.62X39. The 7.62X39 brass is inherently accurate. In both case the firearm has more to do with accuracy than the round. But if you hang around the Mini-14 boards much, the biggest squawk about them is accuracy. Oh yeah, I have bolt guns in both 223 Remington and 7.62X39 and you wouldn't want to bet your life on the difference. Also I had an SKS, the Russian armory rebuild that actually shot 1.5 MOA, very few Minis will do better than that. If what I say is wrong, why is it the Mini Forum has a seperate Forum for Accurizing the Minis.
Actually the 22PPC and 6mm PPC are bassed off of the 7.92x33 KURZ. Matter of a fact, the 7.62x39 is based off the 7.92x33 KURZ round also.

About the mini forum, they want to shoot under 1 MOA.

Lets take a look at Iraq and Afgan. Our soldiers are taking out targets at range and the enemy is having a hard time hitting our troops with the 7.62x39.
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Old 05-18-2010, 13:57   #20
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Originally Posted by Dacotua View Post
Actually the 22PPC and 6mm PPC are bassed off of the 7.92x33 KURZ. Matter of a fact, the 7.62x39 is based off the 7.92x33 KURZ round also.

About the mini forum, they want to shoot under 1 MOA.

Lets take a look at Iraq and Afgan. Our soldiers are taking out targets at range and the enemy is having a hard time hitting our troops with the 7.62x39.
This situation has little to do with the weapon or ammunition involved. For that matter, neither the mini 14 nor the SKS are likely to be seen in decent numbers in either conflict. In other conflicts, the SKS and AK both did just fine.

The 7.62x39 is plenty accurate in an appropriate weapon, and the SKS can fill the bill in that regard.....the AK47 not so much. In the same vein, the mini14 is a poor choice in any fire fight because of accuracy problems that are exaggerated by the effects of heating of the barrel.

There are a number of reasons the AR is more accurate than these other choices. One of them comes from the gas system initiating accuracy defeating motion behind the chamber instead of halfway up the barrel. That does create problems of its own, but it along with a quality barrel produces a very accurate weapon. Accurate enough that the limitations of the .223/5.56 cartridge are apparent, hence the need for multiple twist rates to accomodate various bullet weights, and varying accuracies.

I would still lean on my SKS first and foremost, and my AR second.....and leave my mini 30 alone. Mini 14, not for me. Humping through the bush....I'll take an AK.
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Old 05-18-2010, 14:07   #21
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Originally Posted by Dacotua View Post
Actually the 22PPC and 6mm PPC are bassed off of the 7.92x33 KURZ. Matter of a fact, the 7.62x39 is based off the 7.92x33 KURZ round also.

About the mini forum, they want to shoot under 1 MOA.

Lets take a look at Iraq and Afgan. Our soldiers are taking out targets at range and the enemy is having a hard time hitting our troops with the 7.62x39.
There are reasons that our forces are taking out targets at range whilst the enemy is not, according to you. In Iraq this is somewhat valid, but the difference is training, sheer numerical superiority, and the actual mission of the two opposing forces.

In Afghanistan, those same criteria apply, however it is apparent that our M4 is NOT up to the task of hitting distant targets. Snipers are doing well with various calibers, but regular infantry are not well-equipped for mountain warfare that involves distant targets. The Taliban equipped with old bolt guns is better equipped in that regard, and as a guerilla force, is not trying to over-run our positions. They only shoot when they need to, so there is no way to make a comparison like the one you attempt to make.
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Old 08-02-2010, 04:13   #22
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I just want to point out that you can get mini 14 mags for 20-25 bucks a piece. Also, why would you unload every night? Do you mean removing the mag(still why) or unloading the mag? Keeping a spring compressed doesn't degrade it's servicability. Loading/unloading is what kills springs.

I'll take a mini over an sks any day. Mine gets 2moa with cheap surplus and has only a few mods, tritium front sight, choate handguard, no accuracy mods.

That being said I'd like to get an sks as a cheap beater that I can get spare parts for. And if you can get one that shoots under 4 moa there is nothing wrong with the weapon for defending your home.

Btw, the bayonet sweetens the pot but I'm just stupid grunt who likes destroying hay bails.
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Old 08-27-2010, 10:42   #23
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Have both SKS and Mini. I like them both. For what I paid for the Mini used I could have bought an SKS and 2500 rds. For what my SAR 8 rig is worth, I could get a crate of SKSs or 3 Minis. If you're buck$ down, get an SKS. PAX
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Old 09-13-2010, 20:50   #24
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Originally Posted by usmcronin View Post
I just want to point out that you can get mini 14 mags for 20-25 bucks a piece. Also, why would you unload every night? Do you mean removing the mag(still why) or unloading the mag? Keeping a spring compressed doesn't degrade it's servicability. Loading/unloading is what kills springs.

I'll take a mini over an sks any day. Mine gets 2moa with cheap surplus and has only a few mods, tritium front sight, choate handguard, no accuracy mods.

That being said I'd like to get an sks as a cheap beater that I can get spare parts for. And if you can get one that shoots under 4 moa there is nothing wrong with the weapon for defending your home.

Btw, the bayonet sweetens the pot but I'm just stupid grunt who likes destroying hay bails.
Ok, but put a set of tech sights on that cheap SKS and your group size will definitely improve, 2 moa is quite possible. Leaving springs compressed WILL degrade the springs, it just takes longer than repetitive motion does.
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Old 02-27-2011, 19:26   #25
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My 580 series mini-14 has an accustrut, trigger job, retorqued gas block, 1911 style recoil buffers, and a tapco stock. My best group with handloads was 1.1''. There is no more shot stringing when the barrel heats up. Very inexpensive mods and she's an moa shooter. I bought 4 20rd. mags a couple months back for $23 apiece. Given the reliability, accuracy, and overall ease in function I would go with a mini-14 all day long. Not to say the sks isnt a good rifle cause it is. The mini is just better.
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