All around .308

StevieGuns77 · 10-20-2009, 19:46

I have never been hunting but I plan to start this winter. Looking at my extensive gun collection, I have realized that I do not have many hunting-capable guns. I have a Benelli SBE II that I shoot skeet with that will sufice for all types of bird hunting. I also have an 870 slug gun, since in Illinois it is slug only for deer. I have an M1A that is scoped with a Leupold and sports a GG&G bipod. It is my pride and joy, but I do not think it is accurate enough. A few of us are planning a spring trip to the Dakotas to go for hogs, coyotes, and prarie dogs. My M1A would suffice for all but the prarie dogs. I have been wanting a good bolt gun in .308 for some time and now I can justify it. My M1A is also a heavy beast. I am thinking of a Remington 700 varmint model in .308. Here arer some of my choices so far:
http://www.davidsonsinc.com/consumer...c=50&item_num=

http://www.davidsonsinc.com/consumer...c=50&item_num=

I want to get MOA accuracy out of the rifle but still keep it to a reasonable humping weight. I will probably top it with a Leupold and a harris bopod.
Advice, opinions, experience?

I have also considered accurizing my M1A to suit my purpose. Thoughts on this? Thanks in advance guys.

StevieGuns77 · 10-20-2009, 20:20

I would also consider a similar setup in .300 win mag. Would this be overkill?

H2O MAN · 10-21-2009, 03:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by StevieGuns77

I have an M1A that is scoped with a Leupold and sports a GG&G bipod. It is my pride and joy, but I do not think it is accurate enough.

I have also considered accurizing my M1A to suit my purpose. Thoughts on this? Thanks in advance guys.

Can you detail how your M1A is currently set-up?
It may be much less expensive for you to enhance your M1A than buying and kitting a new rifle.

StevieGuns77 · 10-21-2009, 14:02

I have the M1A "loaded" edition. I believe the only upgrade from the standard on my model is a better barrel. There is no bedding. I have a Smith Enterprises see-thru scope mount, a Leupold Mk. II 6x18, the SEI forward rails on 3,6,and9 oclock, and a GG&G bipod. I have considered the J Allen stock to accurize the rifle.

http://www.jallenenterprises.com/

I am concerned that this stock will make the rifle too heavy to hump around. The extra weight may not be much of a factor for me. Im a big guy so I dont think it would affect me much but I would assume the heavier a rifle, the harder it is to shoot off hand, but correct me if i'm wrong. I do not know much about glass bedding but I know that it wears out and that is what has turned me off to this, but I am open to anything.

hotlead · 10-21-2009, 15:09

A heavy rifle shoots better offhand than does a light one, it's not affected as much by your body and holds better on target, and there's less felt recoil.

I would start off your M1A with making sure the flash suppressor is on tight and doesn't obstruct anything, then that the gas cylinder is tight and the GC lock times properly, then a inch/pound torque setting of 25lbs on the plug, you can then unitize the gas cylinder and front band.

You only need to bed an M1A if it's in a wood stock, a synthetic stock doesn't need bedding. If you have one of the new stocks that SAI is producing, you may want to stiffen up the forearm, as they are pretty flimsy. It's not a bad idea to stiffen the forearm of a synthetic stock anyway if you're gonna tie up in the sling real tight.

The purpose of all this is to ensure everything goes back to the same place after every shot, and that the rifle moves, bends, and vibrates the same way for each shot. Little differences during and between each round is what gives semi-autos accuracy challenges.

This will be much cheaper than buying a whole new rifle and junk pile for it, as has been said already, and you'll be more familiar with it and know what it, and you can really do together.

However, I don't want to stand between anybody, and a new rifle

H2O MAN · 10-21-2009, 15:22

The JAE is a heavy boat anchor and I think the Leupold Mk. II 6x18 may not be the best choice for hunting...
a lower power optic may be a better choice.

Also, the Tri-rail kit from SEI is made for USGI synthetic stocks... can you post a picture of your rig?

improved.flv · 10-21-2009, 22:38

Agree with H20 man. Jae is heavy, mine is 14 lbs unloaded and really not designed to hump is the bush. Don't get me wrong i love it but it is a bench shooter.

Billy Dixon · 10-22-2009, 09:44

By the time you spend the money to have the M1A accurized to match standards, you could have bought a Remington 700 that shoots just as well as the accurized M1A.

For an M1A, you'll need a synthetic stock, a new barrel, glass bedding, trigger job and you should have the action lugged and screwed to the stock. McMillan makes a nice stock.

I think Clint Fowler is one of the best guys in the US for the job. http://www.m1-m1a-ar15.com/

H2O MAN · 10-22-2009, 11:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billy Dixon

For an M1A, you'll need a synthetic stock, a new barrel, glass bedding,
trigger job and you should have the action lugged and screwed to the stock.

No offense intended, but that old school formula has been surpassed.

Today's most accurate and reliable M14s are built by Smith Enterprise, Inc.
Their M21A5 Crazy Horse rifles are in modified USGI synthetic stocks and they deliver sub MOA accuracy @ 1000 yards.
No rear lug, no screws and no glass bedding...

And then there's the M21A5 Crazy Horse EBR

GunTech · 10-22-2009, 16:01

If you are looking for an accurate 308 bolt gun that has just enough tacticool, CDNN is selling off the old FN PBRs and PBR XPs. These are basically FN built M70 tactical rifles with 24 and 20 inch barrels with NEAR MFG 20MOA picatinny rails. all for around $700 depending on specific model.

hotlead · 10-22-2009, 18:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billy Dixon

By the time you spend the money to have the M1A accurized to match standards, you could have bought a Remington 700 that shoots just as well as the accurized M1A.

For an M1A, you'll need a synthetic stock, a new barrel, glass bedding, trigger job and you should have the action lugged and screwed to the stock. McMillan makes a nice stock.

He has a loaded model M1A, so it already has a medium weight barrel and a decent trigger, it's likely already in a synthetic stock which doesn't need bedding. Welding on an extra lug is unneccessary, McMillan does indeed make a nice stock, but he has worries that this rifle is going to be too heavy as it is, the McMillan won't help that.

At this point he needs to make sure his gas cylinder lock times right, and he can get a shim kit for about $15, if it doesn't.

Brownells has unitized gas cylinders for $115.

A Sadlak NM spring guide is $39.50 on their website.

We'll allow $25 for a 3' stick of 1/4" aluminum rod and a bottle of epoxy from Orchard to stiffen the forearm, IF he needs it 'cause he ties up real tight in the sling( which he probably doesn't, because he has a bipod)

So, for $195.50 (plus tax and shipping) he can get more accuracy out his rifle than any of us can likely take advantage of.

I haven't seen any 1/2MOA rifles of any sort around here for $200.

StevieGuns77 · 10-22-2009, 20:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by H2O MAN

No offense intended, but that old school formula has been surpassed.

Today's most accurate and reliable M14s are built by Smith Enterprise, Inc.
Their M21A5 Crazy Horse rifles are in modified USGI synthetic stocks and they deliver sub MOA accuracy @ 1000 yards.
No rear lug, no screws and no glass bedding...

And then there's the M21A5 Crazy Horse EBR

Is it possible for me to send my rifle out to SEI to have them make it into a m21. If so, what kind of price would I be looking at

H2O MAN · 10-22-2009, 20:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by StevieGuns77

Is it possible for me to send my rifle out to SEI to have them make it into a m21.
If so, what kind of price would I be looking at

Yes, SEI is accepting civilian work.
I recommend that you call SEI and speak with Ron Smith.
Settle on exactly what you want and request a price on that.

StevieGuns77 · 10-22-2009, 20:24

Its officially on my to do list. Thanks H2O I know your the go to guy when it comes to m14/m1a stuff

StevieGuns77 · 10-22-2009, 20:37

After reading on SEI's website about their mods, I am definitely going to go with this I think. I probably will still end up buying a new gun too, since that is never hard to justify.

H2O MAN · 10-23-2009, 08:34

Check your Private Messages

skoro · 10-26-2009, 13:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by StevieGuns77

I have been wanting a good bolt gun in .308 for some time and now I can justify it.

The Remingtons aren't bad, but the new Winchester Model 70 Featherweights are really nice and usually available for less than the Rem 700 these days.

At least check 'em out before making a purchase. I'm glad I did.

Joe Garibaldi · 10-26-2009, 17:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by H2O MAN

Today's most accurate and reliable M14s are built by Smith Enterprise, Inc. Their M21A5 Crazy Horse rifles are in modified USGI synthetic stocks and they deliver sub MOA accuracy @ 1000 yards.
No rear lug, no screws and no glass bedding...

And then there's the M21A5 Crazy Horse EBR

Can you tell me more about the "modified USGI synthetic stocks"?

The only ones I'm familiar with were in ROTC in high school. They were fiberglass and fragile as all he**. Of course, we learned this dropping them when trying to do 8th & I imitations.

Our Instructors also didn't think much of them, much like they didn't the early M16's, thinking the fragile stocks were unfit for hand to hand combat. Our drops confirmed that about the M14 fiberglass.

Are there other USGI synthetic stocks for the M14 besides fiberglass?

H2O MAN · 10-26-2009, 18:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Garibaldi

Can you tell me more about the "modified USGI synthetic stocks"?

All I know is that SEI cryo's the stock and adds their Tri-rails. They also shim the gas system.
They may have additional tricks up their sleeves, but I don't know what they are.

I have an SEI M21A5 Crazy Horse rifle in a USGI synthetic stock that has the Rigid Rail Modification (RRM)
This modification is excellent, but the guy that was making them went MIA with a few stocks and some cash...

SevenMM · 10-26-2009, 18:20

Can't go wrong with a .308 in pretty much any configuration.

I'd stay away from the SPS's though, those stocks are just horrible. Buy a nice CDL (although I don't think they come in .308

) or a Weatherby, CZ 550......

Rifleman55 · 10-26-2009, 19:47

I would use the M1a for hogs and buy a rifle in a varmint caliber for coyotes and prarie dogs, you may shoot only a couple of hogs but who knows how many varmints, a 22-250 or 223 are much easier on the shoulder and wallet especially if you reload.

camocorvette · 10-26-2009, 22:42

I have a rem700 sps in 308 nice shooter 1in moa all day long but the factory stock leaves something to be desired. its rather flimsy and hard to float your barrel. thats my .02cents. either way i hope you get what ever rifle config your looking for

StevieGuns77 · 10-28-2009, 20:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rifleman55

I would use the M1a for hogs and buy a rifle in a varmint caliber for coyotes and prarie dogs, you may shoot only a couple of hogs but who knows how many varmints, a 22-250 or 223 are much easier on the shoulder and wallet especially if you reload.

Thats actually a very good I idea. Gives me a reason to start searching for a 22-250 in wood, something I have wanted but could not justify. Now I just need to hit the lotto.

Zydeco76 · 11-02-2009, 04:47

when I lived in SD a savage in 7mm mag was the king. Savage rifles are the most accurate rifles in thier price class out of the box. Higher FPS rather than heavy weight can be helpful when dealing with prarie dogs. The like to move at the worst times. Something like a 300 win mag takes longer to arrive on target than a 7mm. I used a savage 110 in .270 in SD for everything but I would buy a 7mm mag now.

StevieGuns77 · 11-03-2009, 15:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zydeco76

when I lived in SD a savage in 7mm mag was the king. Savage rifles are the most accurate rifles in thier price class out of the box. Higher FPS rather than heavy weight can be helpful when dealing with prarie dogs. The like to move at the worst times. Something like a 300 win mag takes longer to arrive on target than a 7mm. I used a savage 110 in .270 in SD for everything but I would buy a 7mm mag now.

Somebody who has hunted in the dakotas was just telling me the other day about the 7mm. they said they worked good on Antelope on the run. He said with a 30-06 you couldnt lead the antelope enough while still keeping it in the scope picture.

dakota kid · 11-06-2009, 11:42

a .308 is a good rifle but not for P dogs and coyote's and there are no hogs in south dakota. I would go for a .22-250, .223 or .25-06 for these species. trust me if you are going to be shooting P dogs a 20 caliber rifle is nessary, for flatness in shooting and recoil. try shooting 50 shots of .308 and 50 shots of 22-250. I don't care who you are you will have a flinch with the # of shots in .30 caliber. if you want a deer round go for .25-06 is extremlly popular here in SD. it bucks the winds really good. I have an old mauser action that will be recieving a .25-06 barrel in the future

justjim · 11-06-2009, 18:41

i have a remington model 7 in .308 and i love it. i think its just a sporterized model 700. its light and stainless over synthetic so you cant hurt it in the brush really. i have made some really good shots with it but for prairie dogs i think i would get a ruger no 1 in 25 ought six

Crawford · 11-07-2009, 06:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by dakota kid

a .308 is a good rifle but not for P dogs and coyote's and there are no hogs in south dakota. I would go for a .22-250, .223 or .25-06 for these species. trust me if you are going to be shooting P dogs a 20 caliber rifle is nessary, for flatness in shooting and recoil. try shooting 50 shots of .308 and 50 shots of 22-250. I don't care who you are you will have a flinch with the # of shots in .30 caliber. if you want a deer round go for .25-06 is extremlly popular here in SD. it bucks the winds really good. I have an old mauser action that will be recieving a .25-06 barrel in the future

Yes... a 308 is a bit overkill for both yotes and p-dogs. I don't know about the Dakotas, but in Colorado you want a small bore tack driver with a good scope for both. You need something with flat trajectory and sub-MOA where you can hit a target the size of a cat out to at least 200 maybe 250 yards. I use to have a Remington 6mm that was fun for yotes but almost overkill.... they would explode when hit. I would definitely stay between a 22-250 and a 243/6mm.

Metalhead · 11-07-2009, 18:46

The stocks though serviceable aren't the greatest on these 700 models. I'm a plinker and I don't reload so it doesn't bother me too much. I've got both the .223 and .308 SPS varmint 26" bull barrel models, very happy with out of the box accuracy using factory loads.

10-20-2009, 19:46	#1
StevieGuns77 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Chicago Posts: 177	All around .308 I have never been hunting but I plan to start this winter. Looking at my extensive gun collection, I have realized that I do not have many hunting-capable guns. I have a Benelli SBE II that I shoot skeet with that will sufice for all types of bird hunting. I also have an 870 slug gun, since in Illinois it is slug only for deer. I have an M1A that is scoped with a Leupold and sports a GG&G bipod. It is my pride and joy, but I do not think it is accurate enough. A few of us are planning a spring trip to the Dakotas to go for hogs, coyotes, and prarie dogs. My M1A would suffice for all but the prarie dogs. I have been wanting a good bolt gun in .308 for some time and now I can justify it. My M1A is also a heavy beast. I am thinking of a Remington 700 varmint model in .308. Here arer some of my choices so far: http://www.davidsonsinc.com/consumer...c=50&item_num= http://www.davidsonsinc.com/consumer...c=50&item_num= I want to get MOA accuracy out of the rifle but still keep it to a reasonable humping weight. I will probably top it with a Leupold and a harris bopod. Advice, opinions, experience? I have also considered accurizing my M1A to suit my purpose. Thoughts on this? Thanks in advance guys.

10-21-2009, 15:09	#5
hotlead Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Eastbay, SF bayarea, Ca Posts: 148	A heavy rifle shoots better offhand than does a light one, it's not affected as much by your body and holds better on target, and there's less felt recoil. I would start off your M1A with making sure the flash suppressor is on tight and doesn't obstruct anything, then that the gas cylinder is tight and the GC lock times properly, then a inch/pound torque setting of 25lbs on the plug, you can then unitize the gas cylinder and front band. You only need to bed an M1A if it's in a wood stock, a synthetic stock doesn't need bedding. If you have one of the new stocks that SAI is producing, you may want to stiffen up the forearm, as they are pretty flimsy. It's not a bad idea to stiffen the forearm of a synthetic stock anyway if you're gonna tie up in the sling real tight. The purpose of all this is to ensure everything goes back to the same place after every shot, and that the rifle moves, bends, and vibrates the same way for each shot. Little differences during and between each round is what gives semi-autos accuracy challenges. This will be much cheaper than buying a whole new rifle and junk pile for it, as has been said already, and you'll be more familiar with it and know what it, and you can really do together. However, I don't want to stand between anybody, and a new rifle __________________ "You can never have too many guns, yo-yos, or crayons"- Mrs. Hotlead speaking to my Nephew Easter morning.

10-26-2009, 18:20	#20
SevenMM Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Woods of Wisconsin Posts: 167	Can't go wrong with a .308 in pretty much any configuration. I'd stay away from the SPS's though, those stocks are just horrible. Buy a nice CDL (although I don't think they come in .308 ) or a Weatherby, CZ 550...... __________________ - Seven Last edited by SevenMM; 10-28-2009 at 21:12.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

10-20-2009, 20:20	#2
StevieGuns77 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Chicago Posts: 177	I would also consider a similar setup in .300 win mag. Would this be overkill?

10-21-2009, 14:02	#4
StevieGuns77 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Chicago Posts: 177	I have the M1A "loaded" edition. I believe the only upgrade from the standard on my model is a better barrel. There is no bedding. I have a Smith Enterprises see-thru scope mount, a Leupold Mk. II 6x18, the SEI forward rails on 3,6,and9 oclock, and a GG&G bipod. I have considered the J Allen stock to accurize the rifle. http://www.jallenenterprises.com/ I am concerned that this stock will make the rifle too heavy to hump around. The extra weight may not be much of a factor for me. Im a big guy so I dont think it would affect me much but I would assume the heavier a rifle, the harder it is to shoot off hand, but correct me if i'm wrong. I do not know much about glass bedding but I know that it wears out and that is what has turned me off to this, but I am open to anything.

10-21-2009, 15:22	#6
H2O MAN Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 448	The JAE is a heavy boat anchor and I think the Leupold Mk. II 6x18 may not be the best choice for hunting... a lower power optic may be a better choice. Also, the Tri-rail kit from SEI is made for USGI synthetic stocks... can you post a picture of your rig?

10-21-2009, 22:38	#7
improved.flv Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Seattle Posts: 26	Agree with H20 man. Jae is heavy, mine is 14 lbs unloaded and really not designed to hump is the bush. Don't get me wrong i love it but it is a bench shooter.

10-22-2009, 09:44	#8
Billy Dixon Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 70	By the time you spend the money to have the M1A accurized to match standards, you could have bought a Remington 700 that shoots just as well as the accurized M1A. For an M1A, you'll need a synthetic stock, a new barrel, glass bedding, trigger job and you should have the action lugged and screwed to the stock. McMillan makes a nice stock. I think Clint Fowler is one of the best guys in the US for the job. http://www.m1-m1a-ar15.com/

10-22-2009, 16:01	#10
GunTech Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Helena MT Posts: 85	If you are looking for an accurate 308 bolt gun that has just enough tacticool, CDNN is selling off the old FN PBRs and PBR XPs. These are basically FN built M70 tactical rifles with 24 and 20 inch barrels with NEAR MFG 20MOA picatinny rails. all for around $700 depending on specific model.

10-22-2009, 20:24	#14
StevieGuns77 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Chicago Posts: 177	Its officially on my to do list. Thanks H2O I know your the go to guy when it comes to m14/m1a stuff

10-22-2009, 20:37	#15
StevieGuns77 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Chicago Posts: 177	After reading on SEI's website about their mods, I am definitely going to go with this I think. I probably will still end up buying a new gun too, since that is never hard to justify.

10-23-2009, 08:34	#16
H2O MAN Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 448	Check your Private Messages

10-26-2009, 19:47	#21
Rifleman55 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 92	I would use the M1a for hogs and buy a rifle in a varmint caliber for coyotes and prarie dogs, you may shoot only a couple of hogs but who knows how many varmints, a 22-250 or 223 are much easier on the shoulder and wallet especially if you reload.

10-26-2009, 22:42	#22
camocorvette Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Where ever Uncle Sam takes me Posts: 50	I have a rem700 sps in 308 nice shooter 1in moa all day long but the factory stock leaves something to be desired. its rather flimsy and hard to float your barrel. thats my .02cents. either way i hope you get what ever rifle config your looking for

11-02-2009, 04:47	#24
Zydeco76 Registered Member Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 741	when I lived in SD a savage in 7mm mag was the king. Savage rifles are the most accurate rifles in thier price class out of the box. Higher FPS rather than heavy weight can be helpful when dealing with prarie dogs. The like to move at the worst times. Something like a 300 win mag takes longer to arrive on target than a 7mm. I used a savage 110 in .270 in SD for everything but I would buy a 7mm mag now.

11-06-2009, 11:42	#26
dakota kid Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: South Dakota Posts: 456	a .308 is a good rifle but not for P dogs and coyote's and there are no hogs in south dakota. I would go for a .22-250, .223 or .25-06 for these species. trust me if you are going to be shooting P dogs a 20 caliber rifle is nessary, for flatness in shooting and recoil. try shooting 50 shots of .308 and 50 shots of 22-250. I don't care who you are you will have a flinch with the # of shots in .30 caliber. if you want a deer round go for .25-06 is extremlly popular here in SD. it bucks the winds really good. I have an old mauser action that will be recieving a .25-06 barrel in the future

11-06-2009, 18:41	#27
justjim Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 26	i have a remington model 7 in .308 and i love it. i think its just a sporterized model 700. its light and stainless over synthetic so you cant hurt it in the brush really. i have made some really good shots with it but for prairie dogs i think i would get a ruger no 1 in 25 ought six

11-07-2009, 18:46	#29
Metalhead Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 572	The stocks though serviceable aren't the greatest on these 700 models. I'm a plinker and I don't reload so it doesn't bother me too much. I've got both the .223 and .308 SPS varmint 26" bull barrel models, very happy with out of the box accuracy using factory loads.