"You Don't Have to Aim a Shotgun!" Shotgun Mythbusting - Shooting Sports Forum


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Old 05-31-2012, 02:10   #1
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"You Don't Have to Aim a Shotgun!" Shotgun Mythbusting

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Old 06-20-2012, 15:48   #2
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I have a buddy at work who is convinced there is no aiming required at close range. I am hoping to help him figure this out friday at the range.
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Old 06-23-2012, 06:49   #3
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I point a shotgun

I aim a rifle/pistol

At close range, I will point all 3

At 2am in the morning, I hear a bump in the night, I will be pointing and not aiming


When I'm bird hunting, I can't even honestly say I see anything other than the bird itself
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Old 07-02-2012, 02:40   #4
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Bird hunting is not the same as the use of a shotgun for self defense, shooting 00 Buckshot.
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Old 07-02-2012, 11:23   #5
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Originally Posted by justasking View Post
I have a buddy at work who is convinced there is no aiming required at close range. I am hoping to help him figure this out friday at the range.
Face it, there's just no fixing stupid.
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Old 07-04-2012, 05:31   #6
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Originally Posted by Amsdorf View Post
Bird hunting is not the same as the use of a shotgun for self defense, shooting 00 Buckshot.
You're right

Shooting a quail at 35 yards moving 40mph is a lot harder than shooting a man-sized target at less than 5 yards.

Shotgunners that are skilled don't aim, they point because they are watching their target and not the gun itself
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Old 07-06-2012, 03:26   #7
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Yawn.....oh, sorry....this is a debate that will go on forever.
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Old 07-16-2012, 10:09   #8
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http://youtu.be/aotM1R-AS24

Not saying you shouldn't aim... but here at 0:45 you can see me mowing down 4 steel bad guys from the hip. You'll notice I do aim for everything else that is a little farther away, but at some distances instinctive pointing is all you need.
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Old 07-20-2012, 21:22   #9
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Originally Posted by GDKPIKPWG View Post
Mossberg 500 @ pine barrens match, 4 from the hip! - YouTube

Not saying you shouldn't aim... but here at 0:45 you can see me mowing down 4 steel bad guys from the hip. You'll notice I do aim for everything else that is a little farther away, but at some distances instinctive pointing is all you need.
Thanks for posting this video... and well done!
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Old 10-08-2012, 10:30   #10
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Some of us came into shotguns late in the game and once a rifle shooter always a rifle shooter. Not that I can't hit a bird on the wing but the odds are that he will live on to father other birds. However 99.9% of my serious shotgunning is hunting small game, turkey and deer. I have scopes and rifle sights for my deer, turkey and home defense guns. The other shotguns I use to break up a lot of tin cans and water filled bottles as fast as I can. I'm getting faster at it so I must be doing a little pointing but I will never be a skeet, trap or duck hunter.

I love these kids and their old movie references to scatter guns and you only need to point in the general direction to make bad guy fly backwards through the window and land in the street 20' away. I use IM, and full chokes because I want all of my shot on target and I definitely make sure I have the muzzle pointing at what I want hit. Anything that makes bad guy fly through the air is going to hurt me too. I am to pretty and to old to play those kinds of games.
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Old 10-20-2012, 17:29   #11
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the birds vs men thing is only true if you take a long time to shoot at the man at 5 yds, letting him kill you. I can make that 5 yd hit impossible, just by having you start at port arms, and giving you the same .40 second it would take me to raise a lowered pistol and hit you. If you "thiink" that a shotgun is "fast" for indoor defense, it's cause you've never seen fast pistol handling.
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Old 10-21-2012, 12:01   #12
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Originally Posted by whoa View Post
the birds vs men thing is only true if you take a long time to shoot at the man at 5 yds, letting him kill you. I can make that 5 yd hit impossible, just by having you start at port arms, and giving you the same .40 second it would take me to raise a lowered pistol and hit you. If you "thiink" that a shotgun is "fast" for indoor defense, it's cause you've never seen fast pistol handling.
Snicker, giggle, that was funny. You never seen me shoot pistol before and if I choose a shotgun for home defense it's because at dark thirty in the morning I am going to be better served with a long barreled gun than I am a short barreled handgun.

Not very good with revolvers or pistols yet but I am working on it.





Those were shot in the daytime when I was wide awake, You do your quick draw McGraw thing if you want to but I'm not going to use any Queensbury of Marksbury rules if I need to confront a possible hostile.
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Old 10-23-2012, 17:28   #13
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your mistake is you "think" that you are sneakier than your attacker, and you "think" that it will be in your home and that you will HAVE that shotgun. also, have you ever FIRED a buck blast in the dark, in a small room? the concussion and blast are enough top make you nearly drop the gun, I am NOT bsing you. The flash will ruin your night vision, too. So you'd better NOT miss, the load better NOT fail to drop him (birdshot does so all the time) and he'd better not have a friend, or be wearing concealed armor or using cover. It's MUCH easier to use a light, a phone, use cover, open doors, look under beds, etc, with a pistol, too. So, as usual, the shotgun fan aint AWARE of all the facts.
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Old 10-24-2012, 15:38   #14
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Originally Posted by whoa View Post
your mistake is you "think" that you are sneakier than your attacker, and you "think" that it will be in your home and that you will HAVE that shotgun. also, have you ever FIRED a buck blast in the dark, in a small room? the concussion and blast are enough top make you nearly drop the gun, I am NOT bsing you. The flash will ruin your night vision, too. So you'd better NOT miss, the load better NOT fail to drop him (birdshot does so all the time) and he'd better not have a friend, or be wearing concealed armor or using cover. It's MUCH easier to use a light, a phone, use cover, open doors, look under beds, etc, with a pistol, too. So, as usual, the shotgun fan aint AWARE of all the facts.
I do night firing exercises and I have inadvertently fired indoors, I don't do that anymore. Yes I know my home lay out and advantage is mine. They are in the kitchen or dining room in order to get in the house and will be on a hardwood floor and back lit by the outside lights if they didn't kill the power. I am coming from a dark bedroom walking on carpet, advantage mine again.

I deliberately designed an open house plan with no hallways and large wheelchair friendly doors. My brother and sister are at the East end of the house I am in the middle of the house and can see kitchen which has a nightlight, out my patio door in my dining room which has a porch light on 24/7. Wooden wrap around porch and that is hard to walk quietly on. They have to get on the perch to reach the house doors.

All my defensive drills are against multiple targets randomly placed so I have had to learn to find, acquire the sight, shoot quickly and find the next target. If you shoot in real life like you practice than advantage mine.

Night blindness from muzzle blast out of a shotgun shooting 2 3/4" shells is highly over rated. Mag light will enable me to identify and locate them, their sight will be worse than mine. The sound of a shotgun blast with no protective gear will increase the already present ringing in my ears but from past experience I know that when the adrenaline is up auditory exclusion sets in and the surprised boogermen will be affected more than me because they won't be expecting it. Not my first time at a party but I hope never to go to that party again. I don't like body bags and if I never see another one filled it will be fine by me.

The big 'But', nobody but nobody messes with the welfare of my family.

Body armor does not help protect the head against head shots and that is my aiming point in my practice. I know the limitations of my chosen load.

Mep gas container smashed to half its diameter at 8 yards and penetrated by 4 pellets, soft skinned boogermen aren't that hardy where I live.




So, as usual, the shotgun fan aint AWARE of all the facts.
I have been shooting since 1958, went to Nam twice and shot at All Navy championships on active duty and All Army afterwards while in the Army Reserves. I coached the Navy and then the Army Reserve rifle and pistol teams and taught the police and Sheriff deputy rookies in Iowa and Lafayette County in Wisconsin.

I shot competitively Small bore rifle, High power rifle, long range rifle, bullseye pistol and international pistol, I think I have a pretty good grasp of how they work. If I choose the shotgun for my HD gun do you think I might have a compelling reason? What facts ain't I aware of?

One thing I learned a long ago, there is no single right answer and everybody has to evaluate their situation and decide how best to handle it. If you think you have the only right answer then you are blowing smoke because you have no clue to my capabilities or what my concerns are. If you care to enlighten me on the wrongness of my ways and you are up in my neck of the woods drop me a PM or E-mail and get my address, We can go on my range and you can teach me what I don't know, I am always ready to learn something new.
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Old 10-24-2012, 18:44   #15
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Hey, old gump. It's a real pleasure to hear a reasoned response in any blog, let alone one a such a subjective issue as this. I think the take-away for everyone should be that each person's skills, experience, environment, and specific factors drive what is the optimal solution to the problem of goblins in the house. Well said, fellow oldtimer.
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Old 10-25-2012, 19:16   #16
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oh, things like how FAST you can reliably get hits on the chest, in the dark, with or without a light, or same for cover using heads. things like you IMAGINE that you will get to go get a longarm, etc, etc, etc.
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Old 10-26-2012, 17:31   #17
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Originally Posted by whoa View Post
oh, things like how FAST you can reliably get hits on the chest, in the dark, with or without a light, or same for cover using heads. things like you IMAGINE that you will get to go get a longarm, etc, etc, etc.
Seriously have you ever once been in a fight when you life was in danger, video games don't count. You don't get to choose the time and place and it is never in optimum conditions. Until you have some real life experience you might want to dial it back because you sound like a petulant youngster trying to keep up with grown ups.

Your comment about night blindness from muzzle blast is straight from the youth group, an internet truism all Keyboard Kommandoes know to be true but isn't. Not knowing about auditory exclusion is another sign you are a little green around the gills. Your comment above makes no sense, you are just sputtering in the dark trying to sound like an expert. I don't claim to be an expert but I do have a lot of experience and I'm still here, what have you done?
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Old 10-26-2012, 18:00   #18
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My shotgun is my go to bump in the night weapon. I'll grab it even if I have a sidearm on my person, and I do almost 100% of the time if not its within arms reach. I have two shotguns in different places in my house.

The 870 in the bedroom is loaded with #1 buckshot. #1 buck is a devastating home defense load. The 870 thats hanging above the pantry door near the front door is loaded with 00 buck and has five slugs in a butt cuff.

I live rural so if its needed outside for any reason I want the extra range and penetration 00 buck gives. If I need really long range or need to shoot through cover I can do a selective slug drill real fast.
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Old 10-26-2012, 18:29   #19
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Originally Posted by Jeff F View Post
My shotgun is my go to bump in the night weapon. I'll grab it even if I have a sidearm on my person, and I do almost 100% of the time if not its within arms reach. I have two shotguns in different places in my house.
Exactly, I literally live in the woods and no youngsters in the house. A super Max prison 7 miles away and a herd of meth manufacturers have moved into the area because we are lightly populated and police response at my end of the county is 35 minutes on a good day. My two shotguns are leaning on the wall right next to the door and only a step away when I get out of bed. Last time I used it it was coons on my porch in my bird seed containers but I have checked things out a few times because you just never know. In the day time one of my revolvers are the first guns in my hand but at dark thirty at night the rules change.

The last guy to show up late at night was a guy rolled by some punks, beaten, robbed and dumped in the woods barely 100 yards from my house. Fortunately for him my sister is a retired nurse and we got him cleaned up and checked out a little by the time the police and ambulance got there. Hopefully if it happens again he uses the doorbell instead of beating on the glass patio door.
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Old 10-26-2012, 19:17   #20
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and where is it when you go get the mail, take out the trash, go out to or come from your vehicle, answer the door, gather in the pets, mow the lawn, etc, hmm? see? you IMAGINE that it will happen while you are in your bedroom. well the odds are VERY high that it won't.

I once met a man whose skin was green, cause he'd taken in nothing but speedballs and coffee for over a month. He'd done, by actuall count, 133 daylight smash and grab burglaries, most of them with homeowners/renters present. He'd just dive thru a window or kick in a door, grab a nuke oven or tv and run trade it for another shot of dope. He never once saw a gun or heard a shot, altho he said that several people were running for the bedroom, as for a gun. he could easily have had a hunk of pipe and beaten them down first, tho.
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Old 10-26-2012, 20:52   #21
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Originally Posted by whoa View Post
and where is it when you go get the mail, take out the trash, go out to or come from your vehicle, answer the door, gather in the pets, mow the lawn, etc, hmm? see? you IMAGINE that it will happen while you are in your bedroom. well the odds are VERY high that it won't.
Your reading comprehension skills are surely lacking, I said its my go to bump in the night weapon, or let me put it another way. Its my go to weapon if I know or think I may be getting into a gunfight.
I carry a .357 or my Springfield almost 100% of the time for unknown situations that may come up like walking down to the mail box or taking out the trash.

Is it so hard for you to understand that a shotgun with the right ammunition is the most powerful fight stopper there is. I have taken intermediate and advanced shotgun courses from Gabriel Suarez and a couple others. I know how to fight with and run a shotgun. I have also been to gunsite a couple times for handgun courses.
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Old 10-27-2012, 07:27   #22
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Tap / Gunkid: He's baaaaaack!

Hmmm...I thought the volume and "expertise" of his postings sounded familiar:

Originally Posted by whoa View Post
I once met a man whose skin was green, cause he'd taken in nothing but speedballs and coffee for over a month. He'd done, by actuall count, 133 daylight smash and grab burglaries, most of them with homeowners/renters present. He'd just dive thru a window or kick in a door, grab a nuke oven or tv and run trade it for another shot of dope. He never once saw a gun or heard a shot, altho he said that several people were running for the bedroom, as for a gun. he could easily have had a hunk of pipe and beaten them down first, tho.
And, from our old buddy "Tap", aka Gunkid (5/10/2011):

knew a guy who did 114 daylight home invasions
during a 30 day period. His skin was green from using "speedball"s (heroin and speed mixture) and not eating at all during that period. He would just kick in the door, or cover up with his jacket and dive thru a window, grab a tv or something of value, and run sell it to the dope man. Not once did he hear a shot or see a gun, even tho people usually were in the house. So much for having the time needed to go get a "home defense" firearm! :-). If you are not wearing it, you probably won't have the chance to use it., except by pure luck.
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Old 10-27-2012, 08:28   #23
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Originally Posted by whoa View Post
and where is it when you go get the mail, take out the trash, go out to or come from your vehicle, answer the door, gather in the pets, mow the lawn, etc, hmm? see? you IMAGINE that it will happen while you are in your bedroom. well the odds are VERY high that it won't.

I once met a man whose skin was green, cause he'd taken in nothing but speedballs and coffee for over a month. He'd done, by actuall count, 133 daylight smash and grab burglaries, most of them with homeowners/renters present. He'd just dive thru a window or kick in a door, grab a nuke oven or tv and run trade it for another shot of dope. He never once saw a gun or heard a shot, altho he said that several people were running for the bedroom, as for a gun. he could easily have had a hunk of pipe and beaten them down first, tho.
I don't take the trash out after I go to bed, I don't get the mail when its dark out. Hello, anybody home? Have you ever really touched a gun not made out of plastic and powered by a spring pushing a plunger to propel a pellet with air pressure? The OP was about some dim bulb guy, possibly a relative of yours who thought you didn't have to aim a shotgun. You are bringing all this extraneous dribbling about why only a handgun is suitable for Home or Self defense. Go home little boy and stay out of adult conversations. You ranting has nothing to do with the OP.
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Old 10-27-2012, 21:13   #24
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Well it sure seems to me that Whoa/Tap/GunKid has been everywhere and done everything. Who are we to question the wisdom of such a wise gun-zen guru?
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Old 12-31-2012, 15:41   #25
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whether or not you CONSCIOUSLY hear the blasts has NO impact on whether or not they impact your eardrums. Flinching is a subconscious act, you know. NO shotgun load is without LOTS of flash. a few (wimpy) handgun loads have greatly reduced flash, along with a lot less power, tho. YOU are the one who has a problem with reality. You aint gonna HAVE any longarm when it's needed, most likely. You are probably too lazy to always carry a handgun everywhere around your home, not even an 11 oz 9mm or 14 oz .38 snub.
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