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Old 07-16-2009, 06:47   #51
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9mm +P and +P+

this is copied from the Gun Tests .com site, the March '05 edition.



March 2005
9mm +P and +P+ Cartridges:
Winchester & Remington Win
These rounds should have more pop than standard-pressure 9mm Parabellum cartridges, and in three cases we found that to be true — the winners shoot on par with .357 Magnums.


Rounds tested were, clockwise from top right, the Winchester 124-grain SXT +P, Winchester 127-grain SXT +P+, Remington 115-grain JHP +P+, Federal 115-grain JHP +P+ 9BPLE, and Federal 124-grain Hydra-Shok +P+.

The 9mm Parabellum cartridge (commonly called 9mm Luger in the US) has traditionally been loaded more lightly on this side of the Atlantic than in Europe. The Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturing Institute (SAAMI) has set a pressure ceiling for standard pressure 9mm Para at 35,000 pounds per square inch (psi). By contrast, NATO pressure ceiling is 42,000 psi. In-between U.S. standard pressure 9mm and NATO spec, we have two options. 9mm +P has a SAAMI pressure ceiling of 38,500 psi. There’s no SAAMI spec for 9mm +P+; that’s just a way of saying its pressures exceed +P standards. …
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Old 07-18-2009, 02:46   #52
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Originally Posted by Joe Garibaldi View Post
XD's were available in .357 Sig, and may still be, though I haven't seen one in a long while. The XD(M)'s are only in 9x19 and .40 S&W right now.

I'm not so sure the .357 Sig is any better than the .40 S&W, especially for the cost. It has higher velocity, but smaller projectile. Since Force = Mass X Acceleration, it evens out almost exactly on some of the charts I've read.

with that way of thinking than neither would have any real advantages over a 45 acp. Im stickin with my original idea, doesnt matter what you get they all make small holes in their targets. I think the most important thing here is shot placement. Get whatever caliber you are comfortable with and practice alot.
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Old 07-18-2009, 04:43   #53
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yes, shot placement (trigger control and gun control) and the ability to quickly engage for follow-up.
a miss with a .50 is useless - a COM hit with a lowly .22LR is deadly.
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Old 07-28-2009, 15:32   #54
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I prefer .45 acp over the .40 or 9mm. If size or ammo price is a concern, then the .40 or 9mm are both capable weapons. The local police dept switched from 9mm to .40 several years ago. Stopping power doesn't have any value if you miss your target.
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Old 09-02-2009, 13:12   #55
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Originally Posted by HighDesertWolf View Post
something else to think about you can legally take a deer in most states with a 40 where you cant with a 9mm
If you need to take a deer with a pistol, legalities are probably the furthest thing from your mind.
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Old 09-02-2009, 13:46   #56
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Originally Posted by jsimmons View Post
If you need to take a deer with a pistol, legalities are probably the furthest thing from your mind.
I have never shot a deer or any animal for that matter with a pistol but I do carry my 40s&w with me hunting from time to time. I would much rather finish a deer with a .40 than with a 30-06 or 12 gauge. I also know a couple of hunters who have taken deer with their handguns because the deer were directly underneath their tree stands. Taking a shot like that with the rifle would have been incredibly difficult to do with out making too much noise or having to move too much. But with a handgun it is just pull it out of the holster point and shoot.
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Old 09-02-2009, 14:47   #57
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Originally Posted by BobSmith View Post
I have never shot a deer or any animal for that matter with a pistol but I do carry my 40s&w with me hunting from time to time. I would much rather finish a deer with a .40 than with a 30-06 or 12 gauge. I also know a couple of hunters who have taken deer with their handguns because the deer were directly underneath their tree stands. Taking a shot like that with the rifle would have been incredibly difficult to do with out making too much noise or having to move too much. But with a handgun it is just pull it out of the holster point and shoot.
Sitting in a tree stand ain't hunting, but that's another discussion.
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Old 09-02-2009, 15:19   #58
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Originally Posted by jsimmons View Post
Sitting in a tree stand ain't hunting, but that's another discussion.
So what is it? Sniping? Most places around here require you to hunt from a tree stand while using a rifle. But as you said that is another discussion.
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Old 10-04-2009, 19:52   #59
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After looking at a few 9mm and .40 pistols today, I decided on a .40 Glock. The size and weight were similar. A few less rounds but more stopping power.
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Old 10-04-2009, 19:56   #60
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Originally Posted by wlhawk View Post
After looking at a few 9mm and .40 pistols today, I decided on a .40 Glock. The size and weight were similar. A few less rounds but more stopping power.
Congrats on the new Glock. My first two hand guns were both Glock 40 calibers (model 22 and 27). What model did you get?
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Old 11-07-2009, 10:59   #61
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Originally Posted by BobSmith View Post
Congrats on the new Glock. My first two hand guns were both Glock 40 calibers (model 22 and 27). What model did you get?
Got a 27. I've had it on the range five times and like it. It will make a good IWB carry gun.
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Old 11-08-2009, 06:35   #62
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Doooooodzzzz....

I'm thinkin' somma y'all might have "issues."

Just sayin'...
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Old 11-08-2009, 20:22   #63
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Originally Posted by wlhawk View Post
Got a 27. I've had it on the range five times and like it. It will make a good IWB carry gun.
It is a great gun. If was to only have one hand gun I would want the 27. IWB is the way to go.
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Old 11-18-2009, 10:17   #64
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In Texas I carried the Kel Tec PF9 9mm due to ease of concealability over the Glock .40. That said, my Glock is my baby and I love the feel of the .40 and in cold weather carry that.
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Old 02-24-2012, 01:39   #65
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i've shot both .40 and 9mm.

i've shot both .40 and 9mm. but did not remeber which was had more recoil. Now after reading through these messages I see that it is .40 that has more recoil? Correct me if I am wrong. If so I am going with the 9MM as I remember it was more presize and more confortable to shoot out of. Now those who say .40 is more manly I say that's a typical of a person who has insecurity about his manliness. Prefering something with less recoil has nothing to do with being less manly. Driving a bigger car for instance has nothing to do with being a better man. Being a better man is about persons character and not the size or his truck or the calliber of his gun.

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Old 06-14-2012, 11:49   #66
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I've carried a 40 for twelve years and I feel good having it on my belt. I also carried a Sig 226 9mm for five years and that gave me warm and fuzzies. I once had a trainer that had spent some years with certain Navel Teams and he admitted to being a 1911, .45 ACP kind of guy and when pressed for his opinion on pistols and calibers he stated it doesn't matter. "Your the professional, shoot well what your employer gives you. Caliber? it doesn't matter, shoot them, if they don't go down, shoot them again, repeat as often as necessary." Remember a handgun is a compromise in power to gain concealability. All handgun calibers are marginal at best and shot placement needs to be the prime concern. I carry a forty at work because it's what my employer gives me, one of these days we'll trade in our Glock 22 for Beretta M9's and will carry 9mm's. They're all good, and bad. Off duty I carry an HK40 somedays, a 9mm other, and even a .380 on other days. My .45 stays at home. 9mm is hard to beat, it's almost the universal cartridge, even in former com-bloc nations.
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Old 06-14-2012, 12:15   #67
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I've got a problem depending on a .380 as I've never had one that was reliable as well as not trusting their stopping power. While my preference will always be a 1911 .45, but I often carry a .40.

Last edited by wlhawk; 07-08-2012 at 11:01.
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Old 06-14-2012, 22:36   #68
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wlhawk I agree both about the finickiness of a lot of 380 handguns and on the power. It wasn't until I bought a CZ 83 that I found a 380 that was reliable plus held 12 plus 1 rounds. Returning back to the thread the 9x19 isn't a weak cartridge, the world has been killing each other with it for over a hundred years and most folks worldwide consider it powerful and effective. The 40SW has a good reputation as a good police cartridge in the twenty two years it's been out. And the 45ACP is a fine cartridge, has a recoil impulse that matches perfectly the ergonomics of the 1911 and has a stellar reputation, but it's hardly the giant slayer that legend gives it. Shoot well what you carry, carry what you shoot well.
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Old 06-16-2012, 07:48   #69
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Agreed. Look around next time at range. At 10 yds usually see targets i'll swear someone used shotgun. If you hit what you aim at. Difference in calibers not important. I shoot reloads nostly i cary buffalo bore so what. Usually put 8 rounds from my 9 mm mak. Into a quarter size whole. Will a 45 kill them deader?
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Old 06-25-2012, 11:12   #70
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Originally Posted by Mad Dog View Post
I'm shopping for handguns and was curious what the advantages and disadvantages are between these two calibers. I see the .40 is little more expensive, but not enough to deter me from choosing that round. I'd be using this for carry and for target shooting.

What is the difference between .40s&w and 9x19mm?

.40in - 0.355in = .045in

Typical .40 cal loads run a 180gr bullet @ 1000ft/s for ~400ft-lb energy.
Typical 9mm loads push a 115gr bullet @ 1150ft/s for ~350ft-lb energy.

Top end .40 cal loads will run a max muzzle energy of about 500ft-lb.
Top end 9mm loads will run a max muzzle energy of about 450ft-lb

Typical Bullet mass for a .40 varies between 135gr - 180gr.
Typical Bullet mass for a 9mm varies between 115gr - 147gr.

Those are the raw facts. And before anyone starts in with nitpicking that there is This load that runs hotter or that load that is fantastic, I am listing Typical performance numbers that you can expect.

As for which one works better....there is no clear winner. I shoot a 9mm because it is cheaper to shoot and the steel plates and paper targets dont know the difference.

Personally I prefer a 10mm Auto to either one of those weenie cartridges.

If you want a visual reference try this.
9mm
.40 S&W
10mm

All kidding aside, just get a 9mm. With handguns, its all about placement, not the vagaries of a 9mm 115gr vs a .40 cal 180gr. Even a rifle shot doesnt mean squat if you dont hit your target.

With a 9mm you have more chances to hit your target and ammo is cheaper which encourages practice.
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Old 06-25-2012, 11:28   #71
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The most imprtant factors are finding a pistol you're comfortable with and practicing often. All misses are similar in stopping power, while similar hits may give different results.
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Old 06-30-2012, 12:17   #72
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10mm anyone?
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Old 07-01-2012, 03:51   #73
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Originally Posted by Amsdorf View Post
10mm anyone?
Have two, a Delta and a Glock. Recoil is snappish in stock guns, ammo is high, but yes it goes through stuff like doors and tends to make big ugly holes in living things. It's a .40 if you are willing to buy a barrel (and a spring for Colt). Mine are mostly for animals, and because I like them. I would pass on them as a daily carry gun unless I lived in bear country or was Mad Maxs' roomie.

Between the .40 and the 9mm. I think most folks are better served by the 9. More rounds, easier to shoot. My advice would be to rent or borrow pistols then buy the one that works the best in the weak hand.
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Old 07-04-2012, 09:10   #74
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"rent or borrow pistols....."

There's the best advice of all. Try before you buy.
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Old 07-10-2012, 19:17   #75
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Originally Posted by Amsdorf View Post
"rent or borrow pistols....."

There's the best advice of all. Try before you buy.
And shoot with your weak hand. If you slam your good hand into an automatic door closer on a CNC machine center you will only have your weak hand to shoot with, we don't need to go into how I know this.
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