View Poll Results: What 45 ACP semiauto design type is most reliable?
1911 design (and all 1911 brands directly based on it) 19 35.19%
Sig Sauer 45's 5 9.26%
HK 45's 2 3.70%
Para Ordance (based on 1911, but significant changes) 0 0%
Glock 45's 17 31.48%
Smith-Wesson modern 45's (non-1911) 2 3.70%
Springfield modern 45's (e.g., the XD) 5 9.26%
CZ-based modern 45's (EAA Witness, CZ itself, etc.) 1 1.85%
Other 3 5.56%
Voters: 54. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-12-2007, 11:46   #1
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Most reliable 45 semiauto design

I'm interested in knowing which 45 acp semiauto design you believe to be the most RELIABLE in existence. In other words, if someone comes to you and says, "Beyond reasonable combat accuracy, I don't care how accurate it is; I don't care which name brand; I don't care about what anyone's favorite is; I don't care about capacity; and I don't care about 1911 versus modern. I just want to buy the most reliable 45 semiauto in existence, one that will reliably feed and fire when I pull the trigger."

What would you tell them?

Note: In some of the poll options, I am listing name brands that in my awareness are associated with a unique type of 45 design, but I am NOT listing specific models within those brands. In the case of 1911, I just list the 1911 design type in general, but I'm not listing all the specific brands of 1911. If you prefer the 1911 design regardless of brand (Colt, Springfield, etc.), then choose the 1911 option. In the case of Para, I know that they are in fact a type of 1911, but they have a rather unique spin on the 1911 design, so I chose to list Para Ord as a separate option. If you prefer a modern design, pick the manufacture whose pistol is closest to that design, or if nothing fits there's always "other."
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Old 09-12-2007, 12:51   #2
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Another note: If you select "other", please add a comment to the thread and let us know what your choice was. I'm dying of curiosity!
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Old 09-12-2007, 12:53   #3
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I picked 1911 because the other day I dropped mine in a mud puddle and picked it up and shook it off and the whole magazine fired with no problems... There was grit and mud all in the action and it still fired just fine.
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Old 09-12-2007, 14:26   #4
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Originally Posted by timlt View Post
Another note: If you select "other", please add a comment to the thread and let us know what your choice was. I'm dying of curiosity!

LOL sorry Tim

I picked a Taurus Millennium Pro because of my own personal experience with mine. Ive fired over 2,000 rounds through it with just about every type of load imaginable and projectile (I handload) from this gun every thing from 155 grain wad cutters to 260 grain hollow points with various powders and charge weights the only times it has ever malfunctioned was a FTF it did however go off on the second trigger pull (the nice thing about these Taurus DAO guns dont have to rack the slide to re cock) The reason for the FTF was the case was about .10" out of spec on the case length so in other words the cartridges was more or less free floating in the chamber in that instance it was not the firearms fault but the ammunition. The only other time the gun has malfunctioned was during a range session of shooting 230 grain lead cast bullets over unique powder (extremely dirty combination) and on the last shot of my 10th magazine ( I shoot atleast 150 rounds a session) that day the magazine catch failed to hold the slide open also take into consideration this was also round number 600 since the guns last cleaning. I determined this was becuase of a sticking magazine follower I took the magazine apart cleaned it out reloaded it and continued to finish my range session without a hitch. Again not the guns fault but a dirty magazine. I absolutely trust my life to this gun which is why its also my top choice for concealed carry. Im also very accurate with this gun I can rapid fire 10 rounds into a nice orange size group in the center mass of a target at 7 yards and group about the size of a cantelope at 15 yards.
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Old 09-13-2007, 05:23   #5
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I picked Glock. I can't personally shoot one worth a darn but I've never been able to get one to break or jam that was not ammo related. I don't carry one because I shoot other brands better. For best all out "Chevy truck" or AK like durability though it's tied in my mind with Ruger which I guess qualifies as "other". Slight advantage to the Glock because I've never tried the following (nor do I ever intend to) with my ruger but have personally seen the following done to a glock (not mine):

Frozen, hit with 5 lb mallet, dropped out of helicopter at about 30 feet onto asphalt (actually by accident but still interesting), burried in mud, fired under water, fired over 10,000 rounds, left in salt water for 4 weeks and then fired 200 rounds without cleaning or lubing first (scarry but reassuring experience), fired after squib load buldge in barrel (even scarrier to watch somebody do, even from a ransom rest and from behind cover).

I did hear once (read once somewhere is more like it) that Bill Ruger was once questioned about why they made their guns so beefy by a gun writer. Supposedly Bill took the writter to the factory floor, grabbed a P89 from the "done rack", cut away a significant area of the slide, pluged the barrel with a squib load and then fired the gun at the range. The barrel was buldged but continued to function after they cleared the obstruction. Personally I think I'll pass on this one Sounds down right stupid to do if it actually did ever happen.

I know that H&K used to tout in their handouts that the MK23 pistol was tested by blocking the barrel with a squib load and then firing another round to clear the barrel. Supposedly there was no noticeable buldge in the barrel... I still can't afford to buy one either way

I still don't carry a Glock because I personally can't hit squat with them under pressure at 15-20 feet. I don't care if it will shoot underwater if all I need it to do is hit the bad guy at 10 feet right where I want

Last edited by gunrun45; 09-13-2007 at 05:31.
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Old 09-13-2007, 11:28   #6
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I wonder if I should have asked the question as, "....most reliable OUT OF THE BOX." It looks like there is a difference.

I've been browsing around the web, reading forums on Kimbers/Springfields/Colts, etc., and it seems that a lot of 1911's can be upgraded to the point of having top-notch reliability. A common theme in a lot of these forums is: I bought my "dream piece", a Kimber model X, and it was having 2 or 3 feed problems every 50 rounds. But after $200 worth of upgrades, it's the most reliable one I have.

But out of the box, I have the impression that production 1911's have a higher incidence of feeding/extraction issues than some of the most reliable modern designs tend to have (Sig, HK, Glock, etc.). Maybe I'm wrong, but that's the impression I get from the number of reports I see out there. Of course it's true, as someone will point out, that of all 45's out there, 1911-types are probably the highest percentage, so there simply will be more reports of problems, because there are more OF them. That's true to some degree, but I still get the feeling that there is a higher than expected incidence of issues with new production 1911's.

If that is correct, it does not suggest that production 1911's are bad or that no one should buy them. But it would imply that you should probably expect if you get a new production 1911, there's a fair to middlin' chance that you'll have to spend a few bucks to get it "reliable-ized." From my VERY rough estimates in reading forums and so forth, it appeared that over half of the buyers of new production 1911's never have a major issue, but that a good-sized minority (maybe as much as 40%) do have issues. But that's just an estimate.

If anyone knows of any in-depth studies on this question, please let me know, I'd like to see them.
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Old 09-13-2007, 13:26   #7
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BTW, here's a related reliability poll I ran across in a 1911 forum. This one compares reliability between 1911 and other pistol types outside of 45 acp. Some of the comments in the thread for this poll is similar to what I see of 1911's elsewhere. Most folks love them, but taken as a whole group, they do seem to have a few more reliability issues on the average than say Glock, HK, or Sig.

Here is a typical, well-balanced comment, of which I see MANY of these in forums about 1911 reliability:

"I love a good ol' 1911, and I do carry one most of the time. My deffender has proven very very reliable. I do think my sig 229 is more reliable though. My glock has never failed but I am afraid of kb's and slamm fires etc."


http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?p=399725

Last edited by timlt; 09-13-2007 at 13:31.
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Old 09-13-2007, 13:50   #8
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Well one more thing to consider is when you own a Glock, Sig or HK and you decide to get a few extra mags you get factory ones. Most owners of 1911's go out and get the $7 special made in China and then wonder why they have a gun that doesn't work properly.
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Old 09-13-2007, 13:52   #9
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Good point. I've read that a high degree of 1911 feeding problems are mag-related.
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Old 09-13-2007, 23:17   #10
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Glock 21 .45ACP ...

for most serious business ...and that's from an old Marine brought up on the venerable 1911. But, I do keep a smooth as silk Springer in the bedstand.
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Old 09-14-2007, 02:13   #11
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As much as I love the 1911, I would still say a Ruger P90. My P90 is the least tempermental .45 I have owned, and the most accurate. I just bought a Kimber Ultra Carry 2 that seems to have much promise however.
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Old 09-14-2007, 05:17   #12
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Although my G21 was flawless, I've read of just enough failures to cause me to vote for the CZ-based.

My EAA Wintess-P has also been flawless. Plus, it fits my hand MUCH better (and is more accurate).

I've yet to own a 1911 that was reliable out of the box with all ammo (usually good with FMJ though). YMMV

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Old 09-14-2007, 12:47   #13
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CMA, I'm glad somebody is giving the CZ family at least one vote. I suspect that if I owned a 45 from that design family, I'd be voting for them too. I voted HK not because I own one, but only because from everything I've read and seen in my experiences, the HK's overall appear to have the least amount of feeding, extraction, and firing issues right out of the box.

As for CZ's, they'd sure get my vote in the 9mm category. I have two CZ 75 SP01's, one a standard Tactical model, the other a custom SP01. And I simply cannot imagine a better 9mm for under $1000--and maybe even $2000.
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Old 09-26-2007, 09:44   #14
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I hate to, but I have to go with Glock. It's the AK-47 of the pistol world, suitable for dummies and pros alike.

Pretty much all modern firearms are normally reliable, 1911s, CZ, H&K, etc, but Glock holds the "abuse me and make me like it" award for reliability. It's the ugliest, its not the most accurate, its not the most natural pointer, and I wouldn't carry one if I didn't have to, but the Glock is entirely reliable with little to no maintenance.
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Old 09-26-2007, 18:02   #15
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Originally Posted by DocWagon View Post
I hate to, but I have to go with Glock. It's the AK-47 of the pistol world, suitable for dummies and pros alike.

Pretty much all modern firearms are normally reliable, 1911s, CZ, H&K, etc, but Glock holds the "abuse me and make me like it" award for reliability. It's the ugliest, its not the most accurate, its not the most natural pointer, and I wouldn't carry one if I didn't have to, but the Glock is entirely reliable with little to no maintenance.
NOT accurate? My Glock 21 shoots 2" groups straight out of the box @ 25 yds and even after 12,000 rounds of 230 gr .45ACP ball through it, it is still shooting straight as an arrow. Hell, I took it out last weekend and fired 50 rounds of CCI Blazer - 'Beer Can Ammo' - through it and it still attained 2" groups at that range. No, Glocks are extremely accurate guns that can stand equal to or outshoot all but the most sophisticated handguns.
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Old 09-26-2007, 21:55   #16
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Second the motion...

The only slight difference in the practical accuracy of me shooting my Glock 21 and me shooting my modded-out Springer is the difference between the Glock's 5.5lb factory trigger and my Springer's 3.5lb "smithed" trigger. Oh, and the Glock cost less than $600 and the modded-out Springer topped at about $1100. And, I almost forgot the magazine capacity difference in favor of the Glock. Hey, I love 'em both!
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Old 09-27-2007, 06:45   #17
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Originally Posted by AR15_Fanatic View Post
NOT accurate? My Glock 21 shoots 2" groups straight out of the box @ 25 yds and...
Easy killer, I didn't say it wasn't accurate. I said it wasn't the MOST accurate, and I stand by that completely. 2" groups at 25 yds is great, but about twice as big as my 1911 groups at the same distance. I consistently group better with my 1911, no matter if its off a bench, free hand, rapid follow up shots, whatever. My 1911 is simply more accurate and easier to shoot than my Glock duty pistol, although both are completely acceptable for combat shooting.
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Old 09-27-2007, 11:21   #18
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Sounds like everyone agrees that the Glock has adequate "combat accuracy." And everything I've seen supports that. Here's an article that compares 4 recent popular 9mm's (Glock, XD, M&P, and HK), and does an extensive accuracy test. Bottom line, Glock came in last place, but that sounds worse than it really is. Why? Because the TOTAL distance separating the last-place Glock from the first place M&P in group size was 1/2" (Glock: 3" groups avg., M&P: 2.5" avg.).

http://www.handgunsmag.com/featured_...polysh_032707/

Seems like with the Glock, the perspective is that it's "accurate ENOUGH" to get the job done in the normal ways that you use a combat pistol at close ranges. And the reason people get it is reliability, reliability, reliability.

That said, for my personal tastes, I'm also in the category that I'd rather have something that is "reliable ENOUGH", but is also a bit more accurate, a bit more comfortable to hold and shoot, and a bit more elegant. Strictly personal preference.
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Old 09-29-2007, 08:30   #19
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Originally Posted by timlt View Post
And the reason people get it is reliability, reliability, reliability.
Plus simplicity, simplicity, simplicity. It can be field stripped and cleaned quickly and with minimal training. Police departments like it because it can quickly train "non-gun" people to operate and maintain it, it is cost efficient to purchase and maintain, and of course the reliability.
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Old 01-31-2008, 19:38   #20
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I voted for the Springfield XD BUT the Ruger P97 is very tough.

http://hunting.about.com/od/guns/l/aastrugerp97a.htm
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