Ruger Mini-14 and Mini-30 Ruger Mini-14 and Mini-30 family of rifles

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Old 02-06-2012, 22:05   #1
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Question Owners of Bushnell TRS-25: Is your red dot clear and round?

I bought mine and got in in almost 2 weeks ago, but have not installed it yet due to the fact I dont like using the forward rail for it. I am waiting for a B Square mount to go above the Ranch scope mount area.

Anyway, I liked the Bushnell TRS-25, but as I mentioned in my review of it, it seems to have a dot that isn't remotely round, and has little permanent bright lines/flashes of red that jut out from the dot to the lower left or right depending on which eye I'm using. When I turn up the brightness, it gets worse. It just isn't a circular dot, and seems out of whack.

I said in my review that I thought maybe it was just my eyes, but today I went on Youtube and looked at several videos of people showing their TRS-25's, and their red dots look nice and round with no lines or flashes of red shooting out from the dot. It would make it a bit difficult to aim quickly, because you'd have to make sure you actually have the center of the red dot on your target, not the lines or flashes.

I even tried looking at the dot through my digital camera to see if maybe it was just my eyes causing this, but it still did it.

I still have til the 23rd of feb. to send it back for a replacement, and I hate doing it because I already sent back another Bushnell red dot before I bought this one. It was the 1x28mm trophy red/green dot sight. It also had this problem, plus other problems.

How is the dot in your TRS-25? Round? Any streaks of red shooting out from the center of the dot all the time?
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Old 02-07-2012, 15:19   #2
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Maybe you have it turned up to bright? If it's adjustable, turn it down some.
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Old 02-07-2012, 15:44   #3
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Originally Posted by Antman View Post
Maybe you have it turned up to bright? If it's adjustable, turn it down some.


Nope. I have not used it on the rifle, so most of the time that I've looked at it, it's been inside the house, and I've had it on 2. It is bad as low as 1 or 2, but gets worse the higher you go.
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Old 02-07-2012, 16:08   #4
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Sounds like another return to Bushnell!
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Old 02-07-2012, 16:18   #5
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Have a couple of other people look through it to verify it's not your eyes.
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Old 02-07-2012, 19:24   #6
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Ordered 1 today, will let you know.
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Old 02-07-2012, 19:59   #7
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two things
number one you may have an astigmatisim.
number two you cant make a silk purse out of a sows ear. I know this has been beat to death on every gun forum on the web , but the bushnell trophy line is not exactly a high quality line.
the only reason I even bring this up is I have already been down this road and have a box of good ideas at the time setting in the corner of my shop.
I know you want some kind of optic and dont want to dish out a ton of cash but it will be cheaper than paying for a hair transplant after you pull it all out trying to find an optic that works.
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Old 02-07-2012, 20:32   #8
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Originally Posted by jwb47 View Post
two things
number one you may have an astigmatisim.
number two you cant make a silk purse out of a sows ear. I know this has been beat to death on every gun forum on the web , but the bushnell trophy line is not exactly a high quality line.
the only reason I even bring this up is I have already been down this road and have a box of good ideas at the time setting in the corner of my shop.
I know you want some kind of optic and dont want to dish out a ton of cash but it will be cheaper than paying for a hair transplant after you pull it all out trying to find an optic that works.
I agree with that sentiment, but I gotta tell you that I went on Youtube, and every TRS-25 there has a nice, round dot. No streaks of red shooting out from the center.

I hate sending ANOTHER sight back to Amazon, but god almighty! I'm now debating either just sending it back and ordering another one, or sending it back, saving up an additional $119, and buying the Burris Fastfire II.

I dont truly need the sight right this minute, so I can wait.
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Old 02-08-2012, 06:57   #9
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Originally Posted by NorthernSoutherner View Post
Nope. I have not used it on the rifle, so most of the time that I've looked at it, it's been inside the house, and I've had it on 2. It is bad as low as 1 or 2, but gets worse the higher you go.
I have a Aimpoint Comp M2 and a Vortex Strikefire. I notice that both dots will look very distorted if I'm in the house looking at the opposite wall. The situation is notably better when I use them outdoors at the range. Some distortion is due to my old eyes. If I wear my readers the dot looks very well defined, but the target is fuzzy. I suggest you tape the optic to your rifle in the approximate position and take it outside, use just enough rheostat level to just see the dot clearly. Too much will cause the dot to develop a "Halo" around it.

YMMV
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Old 02-08-2012, 19:51   #10
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I looked through a burris fast fire mounted on a glock pistol and it was pretty nice . apparently they are tough because it can handle beating back and forth on the slide.
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Old 02-08-2012, 21:09   #11
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My TRS-25 has a round dot. Don't use it on a Mini, though. It is currently on a QD mount for my wife's AR for indoor range use. Used to use it for hunting on a shotgun. Good cheap red dot if you don't mind having to remember to turn it off. No problems with heavy recoiling turkey and slug loads.
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Old 02-09-2012, 19:44   #12
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Originally Posted by myname View Post
My TRS-25 has a round dot. Don't use it on a Mini, though. It is currently on a QD mount for my wife's AR for indoor range use. Used to use it for hunting on a shotgun. Good cheap red dot if you don't mind having to remember to turn it off. No problems with heavy recoiling turkey and slug loads.

Yeah, I forgot to turn my TRS-25 off the 2nd or 3rd time I was checking it out, then it sat in the box for 4 days or so left on brightness setting #2. When I took it out, it was still on and I didnt really notice that the original battery had worn down yet. But I bought 8 Energizer CR 2032 batteries from Batteryjunction.com when I ordered the 1st Bushnell sight, so I'm set for batteries!
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Old 02-13-2012, 10:11   #13
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Just got mine today, my dot actually looks like a small guy, has a head and looks like 2 legs on it! Will be sending it back soon.
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Old 02-14-2012, 04:04   #14
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Are you guys ordering these fuzzy scopes online or picking them up at a store?
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Old 02-14-2012, 18:07   #15
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I HAVE TO EAT MY WORDS ON MY ABOVE POST!!!! I cussed it and then looked through it with my weak eye, its a perfect circle dot. My strong eye is developing a cataract. Three other guys verified it is ok, nothing wrong with the red dot, sorry I jumped the gun to quick guys.
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Old 02-14-2012, 19:04   #16
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Originally Posted by tri70 View Post
Are you guys ordering these fuzzy scopes online or picking them up at a store?
I bought mine on Amazon from their own warehouse.

I have not yet returned it, as I want to get a 2nd opinion.
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Old 02-14-2012, 21:59   #17
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Yeh, I have seen the OP's problem with my own eyes, literally. It was first with a Burris Fastfire II red dot sight, back when I was a total newbie. I was so annoyed with the "speckle" effect of the laser dot that I started a thread on The High Road forum to ask about it, here. We got into it pretty good, and I'd say about half of the posters responded saying they experience the same jaggy dot effect I was seeing, and on a whole variety of reflex sights.

I concluded that it was, indeed, my own eyes and that there was nothing wrong with the sight itself. Somewhere on the THR thread is a photo I took through a digital camera, and the 4 MOA red dot image is perfect, round and full as can be. This was in a dim room, so the exposure time was long, which may have averaged out or saturated the speckle - there is some idea that the speckle is changing with time, at least how your eye processes the image. Anyway, I sent the sight back, saved up some more money and bought an EOTech 512-family sight. The speckle, jaggy effect is still there on the EOTech (proving that price is not the problem), but it is much more acceptable to me for rapid aiming. The central dot on the EOTech (1 MOA central dot and 65 MOA ring) is much smaller, which means that the lateral reach of the distortion is much less.

Some people speculate that this jaggy-dot effect is due to the retina pattern of each eyeball. It was different, my left eye to my right eye, as I recall. Some people thought that the Trijicon sight with triangle aiming image did not show this speckle effect, which caused me to think that it was a projected image of a diffuse reticle rather than the raw, reflected light of a laser or diode (LED).

Does anybody really know what's going on here? If so, speak up!
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Old 02-16-2012, 16:12   #18
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I have a AIMPOINT 9000 sc. my dot is not round either. It is not the dot, it is my Astigmatism.

I need the laser surgery. But hoping my new classes will fix the issue for the next few years.
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Old 02-16-2012, 16:23   #19
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the question isnt "what does the dot look like?". The question is, "what does the dot look like when I'm focused on the target downrange?"
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Old 02-16-2012, 17:30   #20
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Originally Posted by KingANuthin View Post
the question isnt "what does the dot look like?". The question is, "what does the dot look like when I'm focused on the target downrange?"


To me, when I focus the Bushnell sight(TRS-25) on a target at least 50-400 feet away, the dot till looks not round. But I just read a post above^ where one guy mentions taking a digital picture through the sight and looking at the picture in the camera.

I will try that!
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Old 02-16-2012, 22:16   #21
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Here is the digital camera photo I talked about in my post above:



Note that the camera focused on the closest thing, which was the back of the sight body. Also, note that the red dot is not in the center of the screen. But that's where the bullet would go. The camera axis is off the axis of the barrel. That's the whole point of reflex sights: You can sight much faster because it doesn't matter that your eye is NOT lined up with the rear sight, front sight and the distant target. The bullet will go where the dot is, PERIOD.

Last edited by Bill_Rights; 02-16-2012 at 22:55.
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Old 02-16-2012, 22:53   #22
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As calibrator implied in Post #9 above, KingANuthin thinks:
the question isnt "what does the dot look like?". The question is, "what does the dot look like when I'm focused on the target downrange?"
I disagree. That's the other whole point of laser reflex sights: The red dot is always "in focus" no matter how far the target is away and no matter where your eye's lens is focused, near or far. The laser light beam (the "dot") is projected straight into your eye to the retina - there is no "object" to focus upon. Yes, the curvature of your eye's lens (that is, focused near or far) can change the diameter of the spot of light on your retina a little, that's all. But neither your eye nor its lens can "focus" on the red dot because there is nothing there to focus on. It is just a pure beam of light, with no surface or internal detail to resolve. The beam of light does not come from an object at a location. It comes from a light source that projects a parallel beam of light, and within a few inches, it doesn't matter how far away the light source is - it looks the same. A little spooky, eh?

So any shape or "detail" those of us with screwed-up eyes see is not really there. It is actually just how our eye's rods and cones (and the brain's optic nerves) respond to an optically perfect, totally uniform round beam of light. Someone over at THR or one of the articles on reflex sights I've read has answered the obvious question: "Well, if this abnormal response to a pure, uniform beam of light is characteristic of my eye, how come I can see ordinary trees, pencils, people and books just like everyone else? Wouldn't the image of those objects be screwed up too?" Answer: (drumroll.....) "YES! Your eye is screwing up the image of those objects too! But the optic processing portion of the brain "corrects" the image to what it should be. It can do this by "synthesizing" the correct image, which is available to it as the only image that is consistent with all positions of the head and eye. As you move your head or eye (or the object moves), different retinal areas receive the image, and those different areas have a different distortion. But your optic brain kinda knows this and automatically compensates and synthesizes the correct image. The "correct" image is the one that stays the same after the known corrections of each portion of the retina are applied by the brain. All of this happens in milliseconds or tens of milliseconds on a continuous processing basis, completely unconsciously to us, as unconsciously as our heart beats."

Ain't the human body marvelous?! Praise God.
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Old 02-17-2012, 04:42   #23
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Ahhh.. I see.
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