Ruger Mini-14 and Mini-30 Ruger Mini-14 and Mini-30 family of rifles

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Old 10-25-2010, 12:06   #1
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Weigand, Warne, or GG&G Picatinny mount?

Want to add a picatinny mount on top of my M30 for a Red Dot or Holo type of scope. After reading a bunch here these seem to be my options. (would like to get the ERGO 4890 but it's not made anymore and I couldn't find one anywhere)

I also noticed GG&G has a new "Red Dot/Holo" type mount #1381. Any thoughts on this? Of the of the four mentioned, which one would you recommend and why? Thanks, c good

Last edited by c good; 10-25-2010 at 12:21.
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Old 10-25-2010, 12:28   #2
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Originally Posted by c good View Post
Want to add a picatinny mount on top of my M30 for a Red Dot or Holo type of scope. After reading a bunch here these seem to be my options. (would like to get the ERGO 4890 but it's not made anymore and I couldn't find one anywhere)

I also noticed GG&G has a new "Red Dot/Holo" type mount #1381. Any thoughts on this? Of the of the four mentioned, which one would you recommend and why? Thanks, c good
I put a weigand on a 580 ranch and it really locks down tight into the reciever cut slots-no complaints!
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Old 10-25-2010, 12:39   #3
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Unfortunately neither the Weigand nor the Warne are ideal. I have a Weigand Combat and Warne mount on hand. Both ride about the same height over the bore (both are too high, in my opinion) and both are about the same in overall length. Neither allows for the use of the iron sights when they are mounted to the receiver.

The Weigand Combat appears to be the nicer of the two with nice machining and nice smooth edges, etc. The Warne mount is really just a big bar with slots cut in it. With that said, the Warne appears to be more versatile since the mounting screws are lower on the mount. The WC screws stick up a little too high and interfere with the mount on the bottom of my Trijicon red dot.

I have a GG&G mount on order and was told that it should ship next week. I'll compare it with the other two and see how it fits.
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Old 10-25-2010, 12:41   #4
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Hi,

I have a GG&G rail on my Ruger. I would recommend the rail vs the red dot mount just for the versatility...you're not limited to the red dot. Thr GG&G is very nicely made with nicely rounded and contoured cuts.

Ed

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Old 10-25-2010, 12:48   #5
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A couple pics of the Warne mount are on Pg 4:

http://perfectunion.com/vb/showthrea...d=1#post625614
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Old 10-25-2010, 12:49   #6
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Originally Posted by edorfox View Post
Hi,

I have a GG&G rail on my Ruger. I would recommend the rail vs the red dot mount just for the versatility...you're not limited to the red dot. Thr GG&G is very nicely made with nicely rounded and contoured cuts.

Ed

Nice! How much additional height does it add? The Warne and WC place the optic too high for anything close to a cheek weld.
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Old 10-25-2010, 12:59   #7
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It looks about as high as the others.

You have to have enough room for the case to eject, so the mounts have to be up there a little.

I don't know of a rail that you can use your sights with, maybe someone else does, but I can't see how a rail can go any lower and still allow ejection.

One thing that could be tried is to take the rail to your gunsmith and have him mill a slot down the middle of the rail and use QD rings on the scope so the scope could come off and be easily put back on.
Have him measure first before cutting the rail

I use the weingard rail and like it a lot.
The new Ken Farrel rail will be out shortly and will be the best rail you can put on a mini as it does not depend on the scallops cut into the sight mount on the rifle. It's not going to be cheap. I have the first prototype on my older mini and love it. Farrel's sights are the best made, but are spendy.

Best Regards, John K
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Old 10-25-2010, 13:10   #8
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I think ALL of the rails that mount to the Minis receiver are going to give a higher weld. My ERGO is about as small as it get yet the weld is now a chin weld.... No big deal for me really and I was able to adjust very quickly.
I haven't mounted a scope yet but I'm quite sure the weld is much higher too
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Old 10-25-2010, 13:26   #9
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Originally Posted by dkac2 View Post
It looks about as high as the others.

You have to have enough room for the case to eject, so the mounts have to be up there a little.

I don't know of a rail that you can use your sights with, maybe someone else does, but I can't see how a rail can go any lower and still allow ejection.

One thing that could be tried is to take the rail to your gunsmith and have him mill a slot down the middle of the rail and use QD rings on the scope so the scope could come off and be easily put back on.
Have him measure first before cutting the rail

I use the weingard rail and like it a lot.
The new Ken Farrel rail will be out shortly and will be the best rail you can put on a mini as it does not depend on the scallops cut into the sight mount on the rifle. It's not going to be cheap. I have the first prototype on my older mini and love it. Farrel's sights are the best made, but are spendy.

Best Regards, John K
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the Farrell mount will require drilling and tapping.
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Old 10-25-2010, 13:33   #10
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Originally Posted by Tokarev View Post
Nice! How much additional height does it add? The Warne and WC place the optic too high for anything close to a cheek weld.
That rail is currently on my Deerfield .44 Mag. With my NcStar red dot installed, it adds about .900" above the rear peep. More or less, a chin weld.

Ed
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Old 10-25-2010, 13:35   #11
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Originally Posted by edorfox View Post
That rail is currently on my Deerfield .44 Mag. With my NcStar red dot installed, it adds about .900" above the rear peep. More or less, a chin weld.

Ed
So same as all of 'em.

Sigh...
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Old 10-25-2010, 13:49   #12
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I have both Warne and Weigand on my 580. As other have said, height is about identical.. little to no different when we are to add a rail.. any rail.

I like Weigand over Warne because it is MUCH easier to mount. Warne uses 8 small torx screws and it is less "friendly" to use vs Weigand rail.

GG&G's design is similar to Weigand's. I'd choose between these 2.
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Old 10-25-2010, 13:55   #13
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Originally Posted by Tokarev View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the Farrell mount will require drilling and tapping.
Yes it does, one hole on the top bridge on either side of the ejection port. It also has two hex head screws, one each next to the screw that go to the top of the bridge that are tightened to give additional support and keep the screws from coming loose, but are not going into the rifle.

This does add to the cost, but if you want the best, especially if using heavy optics, it's the way to go.

The mount also has one end that overhangs and is reversable, so if you want a scope or red dot further forward, it can be mounted that way. A lot of thought went into this mount to make it as versital as possible and make it the strongest mount also.

The scallops on most Mini's are far from precision cut. All other mounts depend on the scallops being perfect. If they are not, the mount will be off. The Farrel mount does not use the scallops and has about .006" sideways movement so it can be perfectly aligned with the bore when mounted. Farrel is making a mounting jig that will align the mount perfectly as well as have bushings so that the holes can be perfectly drilled and tapped. I'm going to put a Farrel mount on my other Mini, it's worth the cost to insure that I do not ruin a scope and I know that I can center the adjustment on the scope, not have to turn it way off to the the end of it's adjustment to get it right.

Best Regards, John K

Last edited by dkac2; 10-25-2010 at 14:21.
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Old 10-25-2010, 13:56   #14
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I have the Warne on mine- just added with the CMR scope- and I suspect it's the reason for the dented case necks I'm getting...
I only added the rail because Midway shipped me the incorrect QD rings that weren't for the Mini.
I think, if I had it to do over, I'd forget the rail and mount the scope rings directly the Ranch's scallops and that would probably eliminate the brass issue?
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Old 10-25-2010, 14:57   #15
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Originally Posted by edorfox View Post
Hi,

I have a GG&G rail on my Ruger. I would recommend the rail vs the red dot mount just for the versatility...you're not limited to the red dot. Thr GG&G is very nicely made with nicely rounded and contoured cuts.

Ed

That sure is nice looking, got any pics installed ?
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Old 10-25-2010, 15:10   #16
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Originally Posted by tobnpr View Post
I have the Warne on mine- just added with the CMR scope- and I suspect it's the reason for the dented case necks I'm getting...
I only added the rail because Midway shipped me the incorrect QD rings that weren't for the Mini.
I think, if I had it to do over, I'd forget the rail and mount the scope rings directly the Ranch's scallops and that would probably eliminate the brass issue?
I had far less of an issue with dented cases with a rail on the gun because the case mouths did not hit the turrets on my scope and mess that up.
I have rings on one gun and a rail on the other, they both dent the cases on the OP rod when being ejected, it really makes no difference. It's just something you have to live with.

If your rifle has the replacable ejector and as far as I know, all do and it's a 5.56, you might try filing a slight upward angle on the front of the ejector so it throws the brass out a little higher. That's how I adjust 45 auto's as to where they throw the brass, no reason it should not work on your Mini, just try a little at a time. Upward and slightly towards the ejection port is where I would start filing. I'm going to try it on mine, I have a new spare ejector if I need it. The ejector can be bought at Brownells or Midwayusa. Maybe get a new one, try it to see if it's better, if not, try filing it, you can then put the old one in if it's worse.
If it doesn't work, the part is not restricted and costs very little. If your dents are bad, just try a new stock ejector and maybe they won't be as bad. A slight dent really does not hurt anything as far a reloading goes and the dent gets pushed out when the rifle is fired.

Best Regards, John K
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Old 10-25-2010, 16:52   #17
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I've been through this though process as I worked to get a holographic sight installed on my Ranch Mini.

I just received today a used Ultimak scout rail. (Thanks Carbine85). And my Ranch is currently fitted with a GG&G rail. So I can provide a comparison between the two.

The GG&G and the Ultimak rail are both well made products.

The GG&G rail mounts on to the cuts located on the top of a Ranch rifle's receiver. The rail is fitted with a pair of pins on its base which keep the rail from sliding rearward. The rail is held into place with torx button head screws. It is cut generously to allow for shell ejection. It does not allow for iron sight co-witness.

The Ultimak rail is one piece, plus a mounting clamp. After mounting, and when no optic is mounted on to rail, iron sights can easily be used. This rail uses the gas block to secure the front end pf the rail to the rifle.

The most notable difference between the two rails is the difference in the height of rail. The GG&G sits 1/2' above the top of the scope mount pad.
The Ultimak sits 3/16" below the top of the scope mount pad. The distance from the top of the Ultimak to the top of the GG&G is 9/16".

I found that the holographic sight, when mounted on the GG&G rail, sat high, and required a thick cheek pad in order to get a cheek weld. The holo sight will be mounted on the Ultimak, and will end up being mounted closer to the front of the muzzle.

This Ultimak is going to get a visit to the machine shop, for a pair of modifications. There is a clearance issue with the rail and the barrel stabilizer I'm currently using. And I'm going to incorporate another idea that I have for its improvement. This is not necessary in a typical installation.

So it will be a few weeks before the Ultimak rail is ready for a range test.
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Old 10-25-2010, 16:54   #18
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Originally Posted by X - Man View Post
I've been through this though process as I worked to get a holographic sight installed on my Ranch Mini.

I just received today a used Ultimak scout rail. (Thanks Carbine85). And my Ranch is currently fitted with a GG&G rail. So I can provide a comparison between the two.

The GG&G and the Ultimak rail are both well made products.

The GG&G rail mounts on to the cuts located on the top of a Ranch rifle's receiver. The rail is fitted with a pair of pins on its base which keep the rail from sliding rearward. The rail is held into place with torx button head screws. It is cut generously to allow for shell ejection. It does not allow for iron sight co-witness.

The Ultimak rail is one piece, plus a mounting clamp. After mounting, and when no optic is mounted on to rail, iron sights can easily be used. This rail uses the gas block to secure the front end pf the rail to the rifle.

The most notable difference between the two rails is the difference in the height of rail. The GG&G sits 1/2' above the top of the scope mount pad.
The Ultimak sits 3/16" below the top of the scope mount pad. The distance from the top of the Ultimak to the top of the GG&G is 9/16".

I found that the holographic sight, when mounted on the GG&G rail, sat high, and required a thick cheek pad in order to get a cheek weld. The holo sight will be mounted on the Ultimak, and will end up being mounted closer to the front of the muzzle.

This Ultimak is going to get a visit to the machine shop, for a pair of modifications. There is a clearance issue with the rail and the barrel stabilizer I'm currently using. And I'm going to incorporate another idea that I have for its improvement. This is not necessary in a typical installation.

So it will be a few weeks before the Ultimak rail is ready for a range test.
Let us know how hot the Ultimak rail gets after a couple of mags.
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Old 10-25-2010, 17:00   #19
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I'll be certain to give it a through work out. And give a range report.
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Old 10-25-2010, 17:10   #20
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Originally Posted by X - Man View Post
I'll be certain to give it a through work out. And give a range report.
Sounds good. Looking forward to it.
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Old 10-30-2010, 13:39   #21
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Hmmm... I still have the Warne mount installed on my Mini-30 and I see two more reasons not to like it. The front mounting brackets interfere with my bolt and there's no way to get the bolt out with the mount attached to the rifle. Also, the mount hangs too far out over the barrel and I can't take the handguard off with the mount attached.
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Old 10-30-2010, 15:22   #22
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.......

Last edited by C.Montague; 08-02-2012 at 13:51.
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Old 10-31-2010, 17:03   #23
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I just put a GG&G mini-red dot rail on my Mini-14 Tactical for mounting a Burris FastFire II red dot. It's a nice little set up that I'm very happy with. The rail is well made and very light. There's plenty of clearance for ejecting brass w/o contacting the rail. The bolt can be removed with the rail in place but the handguard unfortunately cannot. Iron sight co-witness is not possible with this rail. With the FastFire on this rail a cheek-pad is necessary, at least for me, for a comfortable cheek weld.



BTW GG&G is currently running a special on their mini mounts.. $33 + free S&H. Nice deal. http://www.gggaz.com/index.php?id=324&parents=156
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Old 11-01-2010, 06:51   #24
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I bought a stock pack from Eagle Industries to raise cheek weld, works perfect for me.

http://www.skdtac.com/Eagle_Shooters...m?1=1&CartID=0
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Old 11-01-2010, 07:59   #25
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I'm using a BlackHawk cheek rest which works great on my Mini. It's height adjustable.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct...tnumber=129354
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