I tend to grab the Mossberg over the Mini when things go bump in the night (like the time someone unloaded an AK47 or SKS outside my bedroom window), but this is due to my living in a residential area and preferring the relative safety of a range-limited weapon for the safety of others. It would be different if I lived on a farm!
I think a reliable semi-auto carbine in .223 is preferable to a shotgun for the following reasons:
[*] If you're worried about overpenetration, most softpoint .223 will go through one interior wall and be stopped by the second. Buckshot plows clean through multiple walls. I tested this.
What about FMJ rounds? how many walls does it go through?
why do you think a mini is better than a shotgun for home defense ? i have one of each, i was just wondering.
If home defense means inside the home then I would go with a handgun or shotgun. A 5.56 round can easily end up in your kids bedroom. Over penetration is a problem with home defense weapons. I use a 9mm for home defense and the AR isn't loaded but ready to go easily. The last thing I want to happen is to miss my target and have the round end up in my kids bed. The .223 / 5.56 isn't usually recommened for "in the home" defense.
The 5.56/.223 will penetrate soft body armor; shotgun pellets won't.
No, but that is why I have 1 oz slugs on my shotgun. Even if an invader IS wearing armor, he is going to have a broken sternum and ribs. It's hard to fight back when it's too painful to breath.
My house has too much glass on the front. If using 223 and I miss, the round will be across the street in my neighbors house.
Candiru: I used bright orange Testors model paint on my front sight. It worked very nicely, and should help you see it in co-witness mode.
i have always considered my mini as a long range weapon, the pump as a mid range, and my .45 for the close encounters. at least thats what i told my wife when she asked me why i was buying them.(hahahaha)
What about FMJ rounds? how many walls does it go through?
We didn't test FMJ because the Box 'o Truth tested it and found it started tumbling and went wide early on. But it went through most of three walls in their testing.
If home defense means inside the home then I would go with a handgun or shotgun. A 5.56 round can easily end up in your kids bedroom. Over penetration is a problem with home defense weapons. I use a 9mm for home defense and the AR isn't loaded but ready to go easily. The last thing I want to happen is to miss my target and have the round end up in my kids bed. The .223 / 5.56 isn't usually recommened for "in the home" defense.
A handgun or a shotgun will penetrate more interior walls than a .223 with softpoints. At least, that's what testing showed: link
One of the problems that the .223 has is it's a 0.224" diameter bullet weighing less than 80 grains. Once it hits a hard surface, it really loses a lot of energy. And coming out of a short barrel, it doesn't have a lot of energy to start with. I use 60gr soft points for my HD load as it will take out bad guys at close range but not take out my neighbors. I also have a 6.8 SPC AR in case there are other issues I have to deal with (zombies in the cul de sac.)
here are a few photos of my mini-14 tactical to which i added an ultimak rail and aimpoint micro. The stock has been painted with brownells aluma-hyde ii in od green, solely because i found the black plastic boring. The role of this gun is for home defense, as .223 carbines have many compelling advantages over shotguns for that purpose.
I don't know how much louder a Mini 14 with 16" barrel is than one with a "standard" length barrel, but anecdotally they are significantly louder. Notice that the average decibels compared in this link http://www.freehearingtest.com/hia_gunfirenoise.shtml
are
Shotgun 18" barrel 156.30dB
Rifle .223, 55GR. Commercial load 18" barrel 155.5dB
So those are about the same, but the Tactical Mini 14 is going to be louder than either a standard Mini or shotgun.
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Back on topic, Candiru's set up is optimal IMO. I found this because I'm going to bypass the defective scallop headaches by saving up for an Ultimak and Aimpoint, which is what I've really wanted all along anyway.
I don't know how much louder a Mini 14 with 16" barrel is than one with a "standard" length barrel, but anecdotally they are significantly louder. Notice that the average decibels compared in this link http://www.freehearingtest.com/hia_gunfirenoise.shtml
are
Shotgun 18" barrel 156.30dB
Rifle .223, 55GR. Commercial load 18" barrel 155.5dB
So those are about the same, but the Tactical Mini 14 is going to be louder than either a standard Mini or shotgun.
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Back on topic, Candiru's set up is optimal IMO. I found this because I'm going to bypass the defective scallop headaches by saving up for an Ultimak and Aimpoint, which is what I've really wanted all along anyway.
oldarmy is so hard of hearing already I doubt if shooting my mini14NRA 16.25" barrel will
matter much at this point. I love this short stiff barrel as it was SUB MOA oout of the ruger box. My trusty old wood & stainless Mini14 will hit a man at a 100 yards but that is about it. Good for innercity self defence but not too accurate, but it is old, 195-51680 SN
I was told that puts it back in the 70's. I just know it always shoots when called upon, and makes a lot of noise too. If anyone knows how old it is, please let me know by
Email blickley62@yahoo.com
Very nice looking weapon. You are right about the Aluma-Hyde, it does take forever to dry, but does hold up pretty good. It's tougher than regular paint.
I went a slightly different route on the optics. I got the Millet DMS-1 and it's mounted over the bolt. That way heat is not an issue.
The set up you have does allow a better sight picture for closer in work as the glass is further forward, but the Millet works pretty darn good also.
It does give you the option of going to 4 power and rangefinding, which I like.
In the end, it all depends on your intended use and what works for you.
Great looking weapon, you should be proud of that one and the Aimpoints are hard to beat, great glass.
I think a reliable semi-auto carbine in .223 is preferable to a shotgun for the following reasons:
It's not as susceptible to operator error. Shotguns can be short-stroked under stress. Autloaders can always jam or malfunction, of course, but their ability to chamber a new round isn't negatively impacted by adrenaline or panic.
One-handed operation is possible, not just because the off hand isn't necessary to operate the longarm, but also because a carbine is less muzzle-heavy than a shotgun with a loaded mag tube.
A carbine with the minimum 16" legal barrel length will almost always be shorter than a shotgun with the minimum 18" legal barrel length. This still holds true if you consider pistol-grip-only shotguns against rifles with folding stocks.
There's more ammo on board with the carbine.
.223 recoils a lot less than buckshot, which can make a difference if you're off-balance or need to make repeated shots.
If you're worried about overpenetration, most softpoint .223 will go through one interior wall and be stopped by the second. Buckshot plows clean through multiple walls. I tested this.
A rifle is more precise than a shotgun, which could come in handy if you have to shoot near something you don't want to put holes in. It's generally inadvisable to attempt a rescue shot with buckshot if you like the hostage.
In the shotgun's defense, buckshot is about as deadly a shoulder-fired round as you can get within 50 yards, shotguns tend to point quickly and easily, and they're less expensive than .223 semi-autos. You can get equivalent pointability in the rifle by using a red dot sight of some kind, but the shotgun is unassailable when it comes to power and cost.
Good Point there!Concerns about over penetration inside your home,no matter what you are shooting,can be addressed by a change in tactics.If you kneel down,or crouch down and fire at an upward angle toward an adversary,the rounds fired will travel up thru the ceiling,and not straight thru the walls.
Chart doesn't indicate what .223 average db would be from 16" barrel, but
.223, 55GR. Commercial load 18" barrel 155.5dB
So, from a standard, 18.5" barrel Mini, and not using "hot" ammo, there would be a significant loudness advantage over an 18" barrel 12 gauge.
A difference of 6 decibels is not at all trivial:
Experimentally it was found that a 10 dB increase in sound level corresponds approximately to a perceived doubling of loudness.
In self defense one may be more inclined to fire a carbine at least twice, whereas with a shotgun the effect on the threatening intruder may be immediately apparent.
The 556 will penatrate less then most handgun and buckshot rounds. High velocity + light constructed bullets frag while low velovity heavily constructed handgun bullets plow on through.
Candiru is right on with his list, though if you list a negative for shotguns as being unreliable because they are semis then this should also aply to rifles. IMO high quality semi rifles AND shotguns make that negative a moot point.
That all being said I am very comfirtable also using my 590a1 with buck and or slugs for HD
The 556 will penatrate less then most handgun and buckshot rounds. High velocity + light constructed bullets frag while low velovity heavily constructed handgun bullets plow on through.
Candiru is right on with his list, though if you list a negative for shotguns as being unreliable because they are semis then this should also aply to rifles. IMO high quality semi rifles AND shotguns make that negative a moot point.
That all being said I am very comfirtable also using my 590a1 with buck and or slugs for HD
I might have to rethink my home defense strategy. I really thought that 12ga buck would not travel as far inside a home as .223. I do start out with 3rds of #6, followed by #00. From what I've read, about any birdshot at close range will hit like a slug. But with a small house, I really want to try and avoid over penetration to the greatest extent possible.
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