Ruger Mini-14 and Mini-30 Ruger Mini-14 and Mini-30 family of rifles

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Old 06-16-2003, 21:11   #1
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Would it be legal to take a pre-ban Ruger Mini-14, already in 'assault configuration' that had the factory folding stock and pistol grip and shorten the barrel to about 14" inches and then adding a 2.5" flash suppressor? Or would the flash suppressor have to be on the rifle before the ban?
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Old 06-17-2003, 05:33   #2
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Originally posted by natedog375@Jun 17 2003, 04:11 AM
Would it be legal to take a pre-ban Ruger Mini-14, already in 'assault configuration' that had the factory folding stock and pistol grip and shorten the barrel to about 14" inches and then adding a 2.5" flash suppressor? Or would the flash suppressor have to be on the rifle before the ban?

Yes it's legal. I did exactly that myself with the exception that I had a legal pre-ban with a Butler Creek folding stock instead of the factory stock. If you have a legal pre-ban, you are allowed to add any additional "evil" feature after the ban that was not on the rifle before the ban, in this case an "evil" flash hider. I sent my barreled action to DRC to have the barrel cut down and flash hider installed for a total barrel length of 16-1/4", including flash hider. If you have a factory folder, DRC will cut the barrel down and install the flash hider (or muzzle brake, you're choice) for a total barrel length of 16-1/2". Why 16-1/2" for the factory folder and 16-1/4" for the Butler Creek folder? Because the factory folder is a little shorter than the Butler Creek folder and you need the additional barrel length to meet the 26" minimum total length after folded requirement.
Yes it's legal. I did exactly that myself with the exception that I had a legal pre-ban with a Butler Creek folding stock instead of the factory stock. If you have a legal pre-ban, you are allowed to add any additional "evil" feature after the ban that was not on the rifle before the ban, in this case an "evil" flash hider. I sent my barreled action to DRC to have the barrel cut down and flash hider installed for a total barrel length of 16-1/4", including flash hider. If you have a factory folder, DRC will cut the barrel down and install the flash hider (or muzzle brake, you're choice) for a total barrel length of 16-1/2". Why 16-1/2" for the factory folder and 16-1/4" for the Butler Creek folder? Because the factory folder is a little shorter than the Butler Creek folder and you need the additional barrel length to meet the 26" minimum total length after folded requirement.
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Old 06-20-2003, 07:45   #3
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Yes, its legal. Look at my mini in the gallery section under "Hold On To Your Hats".
I also have pics on my web page
The Arms Room

Thanks,
Lee
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Old 06-21-2003, 07:18   #4
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It is legal as long as it was in "Assault Weapon" configuration prior to the effective date of the 1994 Crime Bill (9/13/94).
If you have a pre-ban rifle which did NOT meet the definition of an "AW" prior to the ban, and you modify it into such a configuration, you would be creating a new "AW". If you make these changes after that date, and they could prove it, you are screwed, blued, and tatooed.
However (as I understand it), if you had it such configuration, removed the evil features, and then put them back on, you are still okay, as long as it was an "AW" prior to 9/13/94. I don't know of any prosecutions to establish case law for the issue, since I am sure many people may be playing fast and loose. and the point could become moot in 15 months if the AW ban sunsets.

-- cw
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Old 06-23-2003, 04:36   #5
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Originally posted by cw2go@Jun 21 2003, 02:18 PM
It is legal as long as it was in "Assault Weapon" configuration prior to the effective date of the 1994 Crime Bill (9/13/94).
If you have a pre-ban rifle which did NOT meet the definition of an "AW" prior to the ban, and you modify it into such a configuration, you would be creating a new "AW". If you make these changes after that date, and they could prove it, you are screwed, blued, and tatooed.
However (as I understand it), if you had it such configuration, removed the evil features, and then put them back on, you are still okay, as long as it was an "AW" prior to 9/13/94. I don't know of any prosecutions to establish case law for the issue, since I am sure many people may be playing fast and loose. and the point could become moot in 15 months if the AW ban sunsets.

-- cw
If you remove the evil features, you need to physically keep them in your possession. If you dispose of them, you lose your assault rifle status.
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Old 06-23-2003, 08:10   #6
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Originally posted by valleypine+Jun 23 2003, 01:36 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (valleypine @ Jun 23 2003, 01:36 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-cw2go@Jun 21 2003, 02:18 PM
It is legal as long as it was in "Assault Weapon" configuration prior to the effective date of the 1994 Crime Bill (9/13/94).
If you have a pre-ban rifle which did NOT meet the definition of an "AW" prior to the ban, and you modify it into such a configuration, you would be creating a new "AW". If you make these changes after that date, and they could prove it, you are screwed, blued, and tatooed.
However (as I understand it), if you had it such configuration, removed the evil features, and then put them back on, you are still okay, as long as it was an "AW" prior to 9/13/94. I don't know of any prosecutions to establish case law for the issue, since I am sure many people may be playing fast and loose. and the point could become moot in 15 months if the AW ban sunsets.

-- cw
If you remove the evil features, you need to physically keep them in your possession. If you dispose of them, you lose your assault rifle status. [/b][/quote]
Where did you see that opinion. While it seems like a wise idea, I rather doubt it would pass the "reasonable man" standard for conviction.....

I believe that any evil feature can be replaced with a like item. (e.g. - I swapped out folders, but sold the old one). I have not seen anything definitive, but I had assumed that once a feature had been installed, then it had already been in such configuration once in it's lifetime, so it would be covered, even if the item was removed prior to enactment, or a flash hider replaced with a muzzle brake. Just my take, and I'm no lawyer.

Hopefully, the ban will sunset, and this will all be moot by the end of 2004.

-- cw
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Old 06-23-2003, 09:03   #7
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Originally posted by cw2go+Jun 23 2003, 03:10 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (cw2go @ Jun 23 2003, 03:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by valleypine@Jun 23 2003, 01:36 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-cw2go
@Jun 21 2003, 02:18 PM
It is legal as long as it was in "Assault Weapon" configuration prior to the effective date of the 1994 Crime Bill (9/13/94).*
If you have a pre-ban rifle which did NOT meet the definition of an "AW" prior to the ban, and you modify it into such a configuration, you would be creating a new "AW".* If you make these changes after that date, and they could prove it, you are screwed, blued, and tatooed.*
However (as I understand it), if you had it such configuration, removed the evil features, and then put them back on, you are still okay, as long as it was an "AW" prior to 9/13/94.* I don't know of any prosecutions to establish case law for the issue, since I am sure many people may be playing fast and loose. and the point could become moot in 15 months if the AW ban sunsets.

-- cw

If you remove the evil features, you need to physically keep them in your possession. If you dispose of them, you lose your assault rifle status.
Where did you see that opinion. While it seems like a wise idea, I rather doubt it would pass the "reasonable man" standard for conviction.....

I believe that any evil feature can be replaced with a like item. (e.g. - I swapped out folders, but sold the old one). I have not seen anything definitive, but I had assumed that once a feature had been installed, then it had already been in such configuration once in it's lifetime, so it would be covered, even if the item was removed prior to enactment, or a flash hider replaced with a muzzle brake. Just my take, and I'm no lawyer.

Hopefully, the ban will sunset, and this will all be moot by the end of 2004.

-- cw [/b][/quote]
I specifically asked this question (and many more) on the legal section of the AR-15 site and got many confirming responses. My specific scenario:

(1) Purchased a new MINI-14 before the ban and installed a Ramline folding stock. By this action, I have created a legal pre-ban assautl rifle.

(2) Removed the Ramline folding stock before the ban but kept it physically in my possession. I still have a legal pre-ban assault rifle.

(3) Purchased a Butler Creek folding stock after the ban, installed it on the rifle, and then gave away the Ramline folding stock. I still have a legal pre-ban assault rifle.

(4) Since then, have many times swapped back and forth between the Butler Creek folding stock and conventional stock, but always kept the Butler Creek folding stock physically in my possession. I still have a legal pre-ban assault rifle.

(5) Recently had a flashider installed on the rifle (it did not have one before the ban). I still have a legal pre-ban assault rifle.

Bottom line- If you are the original owner of a MINI-14 that was manufactured before the ban, as evidenced by serial number, the ATF would have to prove that you illegally converted the rifle. It is my understanding that no one, except for felons who have committed other firearms related crimes, has ever been prosecuted for converting a pre-ban serialed number rifle after the ban.
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Old 06-25-2003, 04:04   #8
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I went through almost exactly the same chain of events, and have always worried about not being able to document the old folder, and the dates of sale (bought and sold informally at a show), etc. My concern was always that someone could "reinterpret" things and say it was converted back into non-AW configuration. And realistically, I almost always put a solid stock back on whatever I am taking to the range, because I like that better. I just like having the options. Unfortunately, as Kalifornians have found out, legal standards are subject to reinterpretation, so you are never entirely safe as long as bad laws are on the books.

-- cw
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