Ruger Mini-14 and Mini-30 Ruger Mini-14 and Mini-30 family of rifles

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Old 10-30-2002, 21:49   #1
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From the Ruger Mini-14, for CQB, due you have a favorite BETWEEN the Mil-Spec M193 55gr. FMJ or the M855 62gr. Green Tip??? I have both from Lake City, and think they both should be excellent. Observations & comments---quite welcomed!
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Old 10-31-2002, 06:31   #2
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Is the 855 green tip the 'penetrator' stuff? I have no opinion either way, but from what I read in 'blackhawk down' the soldiers don't like them, just zip through and don't make very big holes.
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Old 10-31-2002, 06:48   #3
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ULVER,

for CQC use m193, it's the better choice for CQC & 150 - 200yard work, after 200 yards the 193 starts to lose the upper hand as velocity drops.

the 855 was intended for europe use where we would be fighting a "moderen" army wearing vests, it didn't work if "africa" becouse the skinnys weren't wearing armour vests, so it "poked" right through without so much as a YAW!
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Old 10-31-2002, 07:53   #4
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More comments than you can imagine,

http://www.ammo-oracle.com/

very large page but worth it.
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Old 10-31-2002, 08:57   #5
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For those who like the Lake City/Federal XM193-there is a hot deal at http://www.wholesalehunter.com/privatespec...cials/deals.htm

at $150 a case of 1,000 rds.
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Old 10-31-2002, 09:30   #6
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M193 is my pick. You must have high velocity for 5.56 to fragment. Add to that the fact that you will probably have a short barrel. For close up work the M855 will never get the velocity it needs to fragment consistantly.
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Old 11-07-2002, 18:58   #7
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At close range, M193 has better penetration and higher speed (because it's lighter) than M855. Further out, the heavier M855 has the advantage; it can still penetrate (due to its weight) while the M193 may not.
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Old 11-07-2002, 21:32   #8
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With 7 grains weight difference? I think the steel penetrator is also a factor for M855.
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Old 11-08-2002, 08:22   #9
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mikr: With 7 grains weight difference? I think the steel penetrator is also a factor for M855.

7 grains is 13% difference in mass - a whole lot!

M193: Defined by: Mil-C-9963F 55 grain bullet at a velocity of 3,165 from a 20" barrel @ 78 feet from the muzzle.
It's ballistic coefficient is typically .243

M855: Defined in MIL-C-63989 a 61.7 grain at a velocity of 3,000 fps from a 20" barrel @ 78 feet from the muzzle.
It's ballistic coefficient is typically .304.

Kinetic Energy of a bullet is M * V * V which is mass multiplied by square of velocity.

At 78 feet from 20" barrel:
M193: (55 * 3,165 * 3,165) / 1,000,000 = 550.95 units
M855: (62 * 3,000 * 3,000) / 1,000,000 = 558.00 units

M855 has 1.3% higher energy is beacuse square of velocities differ by 'only' 11% which is less than 13% difference in mass.

So, despite being slower, M855 has slightly (1.3%) higher energy because 11% deficit in (square of) veocity is compensated by 13% extra mass. More of 855's energy is due to mass rather than velocity compared to faster m193.

On top of that M855 retains energy better due to:
1. better ballistic coefficient (being longer)
2. slower speed - since air resistance is roughly proportional to the square of the velocity - the faster it goes, the faster it loses energy over the same distance! After certain distance (4-500 yards?) M855 will not only have way more energy but even more velocity than m193!

Why would anyone shoot lighter ammo then? Because recoil is proportional to M * V, not V square and trajectory of faster bullet flatter - less bullet drop.
If you expect to shoot at closer range (0-200 yards), having more controllable weapon and less sensitivity to aiming errors as well as lighter burden (or more ammo you can carry) of is more important than extra energy.

I think the steel penetrator is also a factor...
Ballistics-wise steel penetrator being lighter than led shifts the bullet's center of ballance backward and makes it less stable in the air. That necessitates at least 1/9" spin to balance the bullet. Older M16s with 1/12" can shoot M193 no problem but cannot shoot M855 accurately even at 100 yards - especially in colder air. The bullet starts to tumble after it leaves the barrel.
Supposedely heavier steel-tipped M855 is better against flack-jacketed troops at longer distances than M193.

Here goes my first post!

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Old 11-08-2002, 11:32   #10
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Welcome to the forum voruzon. I enjoyed, your very detailed comparison of the M193 versus the M855, and In general theory in a bolt gun I would agree, however there are more variables in the mini you might want to consider. Most older mini's are a 10" turn, not 12", and will handle the 62 gr M855, but the big thing with mini's is the barrel is very thin and flimsy so the harmonics are very pronounced. I would recomend to anyone, shoot a box or two, of both types to determine which shoots best in YOUR gun. As we know, no two guns shoot the same especially the mini's.
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Old 11-08-2002, 13:33   #11
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Thank you, cajungeo.

I ment older military M16s not Minis, of course.
Older 10" Minis should handle M855 no problem - unless you shoot in a very cold weather when air density increases.

The issue is not an "inaccuracy" but the bullet developing major wobble, tumbling and flying sidewise just a few yards from the barrel. The best barrel in the world will not correct that.

The bullet may actually end up to 30 degrees off the intended aiming point - so better watch out for friendly troops or obstacles (ricochet risk) seemingly safe from the line of fire!

Many people who want Mini as a survival rifle include "nuclear winter" in their EOTWAWKI scenario. Those better get modern 9" Mini or stick to the M193 ammo in cold weather.

Speaking of steel cores inside bullets - they tend to bounce something wicked off solid objects!
I was once present when a guy shot 4 rounds from inside the hangar having forgeten that the MG in a T-72 MBT was about 4 feet to the right and coupla feet below the sight line... The bullets were bouncing off surfaces and tanks inside the handgar for good 4 seconds but it seemed like minutes. Nobody was hit.

So if one's SHTF plan involves shooting inside concrete bunker/basement - he'd better go easy on steel cored bullets.

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