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Dirt and mud test

5K views 43 replies 16 participants last post by  Scorpion of Mars 
#1 ·
Hey everyone, haven't been active on the forum for a while. Sometime back, I said I was going to document some torture tests on my guns. That day has arrived. My younger brother and I tested several rifles.
Mine:
Mini 14
Bushmaster AR-15
SOCOM II

My brother:
WASR 10
VZ-58
DSA FAL

With each gun we fired ten rounds clean to show they functioned properly, ten rounds with dirt on the bolt, and ten rounds with mud on the bolt.

I'm in the process of editing the footage together, and it was shot with my phone, so its not the best quality. I'll put it up as soon as I get it all squared away. Not going to publish the results until then either. I welcome y'all to make predictions in the mean time. I'll even share what I envisioned going in:

Mini: better than AR, equal to or less than AK
AR: middle of the road at best, jam o magic at worst
SOCOM: better than the AR, equal to or less than mini
AK: best of the bunch. Its a damn AK
VZ-58: anywhere between the mini and the AK
FAL: probably on par with the M1A

Like I said, as soon as I get it all together and looking good, I'll post it.
 
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#4 ·
I think you'll find torture tests on Youtube of all candidate weapons. One such test packed a Mini with dirt and pebbles. If there's enough to block the hammer from striking the firing pin, it's never going to reliably go off. Then again, you really shouldn't let a gun get that dirty and expect it to function.
 
#5 ·
I'll explain this in the video, but we've all discussed "shtf" rifles, and what rifles we'd grab in a bug out situation. In my case its not just my life, but my family's lives that I will entrust to a firearm in that situation. With that in mind, the gun going boom when you pull the trigger is the most desirable quality in my mind. We all talk about how reliable "x" design is, but I needed to know that mine were. I've seen AK's that couldn't cycle more than 3 rounds at a time and ARs that you couldn't make malfunction. I've seen inaccurate rem 700s. Just because a design is good, doesn't mean the one I ended up with is. I wanted to see how the guns I owned functioned. Were my tests a bit on the extreme end? I'll let y'all decide that. In some cases these guns are straight up advertised in mud or other terrible conditions. The rest all have long standing reputations as reliable in all conditions. I wanted more than guns&ammo ads and second hand anecdotes for something my family might need to rely on. If the guns are screwed up because of the tests, I think it's a small price to pay for the peace of mind I seek.
 
#8 ·
There is no mechanical devise that will not fail. The basics of combat firearms training is keeping your weapon clean and functional above all else. It is your first and last survival tool.
It would also make sense to test and expose your stored water and food rations to foreign matter. Your family will be more exposed to these dangers than from enemy invaders. How long will your medical supplies last without refrigeration? I expect you have a reasonable test for all your equipment?
 
#14 ·
I'm fully aware that everything can fail. While I appreciate you teaching me about the basics of combat firearms training, I have to ask, have you never tripped? Have you ever crawled though a mud pit with a rifle? I have, and no amount of cleaning I did before or after prevented mud from getting on the weapon. Weapons get dirty and dropped and things like that. Part of the basics of combat firearms training is also how to clear and/or fix malfunctions. At least it was when I taught it in the Marine Corps.

And you're absolutely right: my family will more than likely be needing medical supplies and such long before I have to take the safety off my rifle. But this is a firearms forum. I'm doing torture tests on firearms. If in the future I decide to test my medical supplies, etc. I'll post it on a survival forum.

Also, for the record, I have "torture tested" my ifaks, water, and food supplies. I just didn't film it, because dragging pouches and bottles around, beating them up, then checking for leaks/tears/rips is boring as hell.
 
#9 ·
I would prefer to let manufacturers/gun publications do the torture tests. One thing to keep in mind is that the wear factor to the test guns increased exponentially with the amount of grit introduced possibly causing a change in function which could actually be beneficial. I'll explain that last statement, increased wear on components may allow the action to slip past debris which would otherwise cause a stoppage. I understand Bcavins' desire to know how his guns will function when full of debris, I've often wondered the same. As for SHTF, I'm comforted by 2 things, if the gun I'm shooting developed a problem I just pick up another one and living in No. Idaho puts me with a very heavily armed society and, the ol boys here now how to shoot.
Regards to all.
1st Marine division, 3rd Marines.
 
#10 · (Edited)
B may not have an ideal test, but manufacturers/publications may also inflate their product or the review of it. It is rampant in the car and car mag industry.

Though I must say, that one thing that maybe go with the S&W M&P Sport, was that the tester, while the S&W reps got too preoccupied to baby sit him, put dirt on the ejection port and bolt - it has no port/bolt cover. He had some great pics. The rifle didnt give a crap. Of course that was also when they put Melonite was new, and people nay-sayed it. Now its pretty common.

As far as the guns, better B than me - JK dude. I am eagerly anticipating. I have a feeling It may not be what I expect.
 
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#15 ·
Not trying to make it out to be the last word in reliability tests. Want to see what my specific guns do, and thought y'all might like to see. If you're offering, I'll gladly take donations to buy ten of each gun and 10,000 rounds for each. You can PM me to find where to send the money lol :lol:
 
#12 ·
Statistical relevancy? You must be joking

What is the relevancy of the adopted weapons of our military, substantial I would say. Read the DEA tests where Colt and RRA carbines survived and won contracts worth 10's of millions of dollars. They were put to a controlled series of tests for wet, mud and sand environments. I don't recall any mini's or ak's in the test. Probably just an oversight:lol:. Post your video, I'm in need of some hilarious entertainment.:lol::lol::lol:
 
#19 ·
What is the relevancy of the adopted weapons of our military, substantial I would say. Read the DEA tests where Colt and RRA carbines survived and won contracts worth 10's of millions of dollars. They were put to a controlled series of tests for wet, mud and sand environments. I don't recall any mini's or ak's in the test. Probably just an oversight:lol:. Post your video, I'm in need of some hilarious entertainment.:lol::lol::lol:
Just because the govt chooses something, doesnt mean its the best.

The govt also has a lot of politics and money invested.

Numbers dont lie, but liars use numbers.

Not sure the Mini-14 was ever submitted for one of these tests, but would love to see it. Would love to see one if there is.

As for the AK, seriously, that has passed the real world test for a half a century!
 
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#13 ·
OK guys, decided to make some changes:

I'm only about two thirds of the way done and the video is already 13 minutes long. It'll probably be 20-25 minutes long when its all said and done. Long videos are generally frowned upon, so I'm going to start over and do a separate video for each gun, instead of one long video.
 
#20 ·
I suspect that a gun with sand in it will jam in the first 10 rounds - it will probably shake the sand off and out, and function better after that. Of course, if there is a pebble bouncing around inside like a pin-ball machine, it can keep going for some time before it lands in bad place and causes a malfunction...

I can't fault you for "only shooting a few rounds" with abrasive dirt in your guns. The longer it is in there, the more wear it will cause until the dirt is either ground so fine it act like "dry lube", or has been pushed from between mating surfaces.

Don't let naysayers put you off; you offer a gift that they can accept or ignore. It is not as though they commissioned you to do this exercise.
 
#21 ·
Hey everyone, haven't been active on the forum for a while. Sometime back, I said I was going to document some torture tests on my guns. That day has arrived. My younger brother and I tested several rifles.
Mine:
Mini 14
Bushmaster AR-15
SOCOM II

My brother:
WASR 10
VZ-58
DSA FAL

With each gun we fired ten rounds clean to show they functioned properly, ten rounds with dirt on the bolt, and ten rounds with mud on the bolt.

I'm in the process of editing the footage together, and it was shot with my phone, so its not the best quality. I'll put it up as soon as I get it all squared away. Not going to publish the results until then either. I welcome y'all to make predictions in the mean time. I'll even share what I envisioned going in:

Mini: better than AR, equal to or less than AK
AR: middle of the road at best, jam o magic at worst
SOCOM: better than the AR, equal to or less than mini
AK: best of the bunch. Its a damn AK
VZ-58: anywhere between the mini and the AK
FAL: probably on par with the M1A

Like I said, as soon as I get it all together and looking good, I'll post it.
So, to interpret correctly, a direct impingement AR is the scum sucking, bottom feeder in your test. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
#24 ·
Sorry I haven't kept y'all updated, been busy with work. I have the mini 14 video finished, but I'm on the road and having trouble finding a good internet connection. As soon as I get it uploaded, I'll post it here and start a new thread.
 
#28 ·
bcavin - You were supposed to initially drop them all at 500 ft from a helicopter onto a tarmac, then freeze them in a block of ice, thaw and then bury in mud for 24 hours. Bonus points if you then ran a large truck over them on pavement a few times. Just kidding! Looking forward to the videos. I'm bettin' on the AK as a billion Muslims can't all be wrong.
 
#31 ·
looking forwards to the results. Although im a little weary of the mini. Mines given me nothing but problems, but i want to love it!(thought about just buying a new one) and for some reason i do. Although i think i fixed the issues the other day. Im hoping to see some better news than i expect from the mini.
 
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