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Heat Shields on Mini14/30 Thoughts?

9K views 28 replies 17 participants last post by  CaptThomas 
#1 ·
Here some information from this forum I would like to know....

Our family company has a patented material utilized in industrial steel labeling. This is a specifically designed material that is flexible, lightweight, can be applied to tremendous temperatures and can dissipate 95% of that heat in seconds, and can be cut and applied with a adhesive.

We utilize this product for "hot labeling" steel billits during steel manufacturing. We have applied it to 750F steel (full contact) removed it, and 5 seconds later could handle it bare-handed.

For fun, I have tested this material as a heatshield in a AR 15. I have found it out performs standard aluminum as a heatshield by considerable margins. I am in the process of formally writing up the study and data. I have also applied it as a inside layer to after market handguards such as Troy and found it increases the heat dissipation of these hand guards as well, even with their excellent ventilation cuts.

I am going to see how it performs in my mini-30 soon.

HERES THE QUESTION

If we wanted to, we could start selling this product and design it in several ways (precut) (with adhesive back) (w/o adhesive) (as a rectangle the customer can custom fit).

Do you think this would be something you would buy?

I can present more information in the future is I find this is something I should invest some time and money into.
 
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#2 ·
I suppose it's something I would need to know more about and actually see pictures of, before I'd be willing to plop cash down for it.

You say an adhesive is needed - so it's like a film? What kind of adhesive does it use? Will we be able to easily remove the material and adhesive or will it bond and damage the surface if removed?
 
#3 ·
The adhesive is an option. Think of it like a sticker or label, except the actual material is about as thick as denim or canvas. What special about this adhesive is that it survives temperatures up to 900f. Therefore it could hold that material on on the inside of the hand guard during extreme heat. You could remove that material in several different ways without damage to the material (plastic or aluminum).

Right now we are just playing with the idea; running some tests with some of our equipment and variations of material. We use a certified IR heat laser to read temperature readings.
 
#8 ·
Well, yeah! the ultimak as designed is a big heat sink. I would not buy one if it's primary intended purpose is for optics. I'm thinking it would cook the internals of a scope or dot sight in short order! You can say the same about the Amega, or whichever strut you can name.
 
#7 ·
Make one up and see how it works, pics too. Do you know a machinist that is working with you or are you building on your own?
 
#9 ·
Started Running Material Tests this past weekend.

Test was to see "heat dissipation" of aluminum vs our material.

Aluminum hand guard was removed from a Magpul MOE hand guard (what we had laying around) and heated (via normal oven) at this temperatures.

200 degrees F

initial temp. 78.3F (room temp. set at 74 F)

Aluminum Heat shield cool down sec/temp

Initial 200F

5 sec 196F
10sec 185F
20sec 166F
60sec 158F (too hot to hold)

(x) Material

initial temp. 76.F (same exact SA as MOE handguard; traced and cut out) room temp 74


Initial 200F

5 sec 166F
10 sec 125F
20 sec 84F
60 sec 79F

Heat Readings done with a HeatPRO IR heat reader, certified calibrated with a SD of 1.6F at a distance of 24" with Emissity set at .95.

What we found at this stage about (X) material.

1.) Much Lighter
2.) Dissipates heat much faster

We have run tests of this material where is was heated to 950F and could handle it "bare handed" after a mater of seconds.
 
#11 ·
This test was done material for material - meaning the "cutout" of the material was done simply to have the same surface area as the aluminum, but it was testing by itself.

Thoughts on how this product may be utilized after we run some more heat tests as well as start setting up some actually "practical" tests in a rifle.

Here some of our thoughts at the moment (using an ar15 handguard as an example)

1.) Replace the aluminum hand guard entirely with this material by.
a. Sticking it on the side walls of the handguard
b. Attaching it on the sides of the hand guard with an attachment method such bolt or bracket.

2.) Adding this material to the aluminum handgaurd as an additional, death dissipating layer. (also works for TROY, MIDWEST, ECT.... free float tubes)

Another test im going to be during is with a mini 14/30 handguard. but I havn't purchased any test guards yet.
 
#12 ·
The adhesive that would be used is a "high heat" adhesive that needs to reach a tempt. of minimum 86*F to adhere properly. If we go the route of just supplying say a square of material to customers that they can cut and adhere themselves as they see fit, we would recommend making sure you apply the material with a heat gun or popping your entire unit in an oven set to 100* after application to insure a solid bond of the adhesive to the handguard/rail ect. Material can withstand 1300F environmental temps and 940F direct contact temps without being destroyed.

In fact, it is the only material currently that is as light as it is that you can even embed a RFID chip in the material and still survive temperatures exceeding 600*
 
#14 ·
I'd be very interested in a shield that dissipated heat.
I have the Clyde Armory machined aluminum SCAR stock on my Mini-14
and the heat of the barrel does warm that puppy up.
If you develop something that quickly dissipates heat away from the gun,
I believe the mini-14/30 crowd will beat a path to your door.
We are always looking for new toys to make our guns better.
Add me to your list...
Jack
 
#15 ·
Right now, we are looking at the properties of the material. Just to be clear, our material is NOT a metal; it is a patented, specially coated fabric that is about 1/8" thick.

We've even made a jacket out of it for heat protection of individuals in steel mills. (ive seen small molten steel splashes roll of the jacket without burning through)

Right now, we are still trying to find time to test its insulation capabilities as a handguard option.

We know it dissipates heat better than aluminum by a vast amount. We need to test how well does it shield your hand from heat.

If it performs well as a shield, then there is no reason why we wont start marketing it as a better solution for firearm heat shields.

After the tests are all done, Ill put together some pictures and probably some videos to demonstrate it.

Regards,
 
#17 ·
I was thinkin the exact same thing Painful!

How does this material act as a heat sink of sorts? Or would it just trap all the heat in against the barrel and act as an extreme insulator from cooler air?
 
#18 ·
Isn't this apples and oranges? Wouldnt applying a heat dissipating sticker to the hand guard simply transfer the heat TO the hand guard?

I know nothing about thermodynamics, but it seems like any thin material would dissipate heat faster than a thicker piece of the same material (assuming they were both heated to the same constant temp). Educate me please!
 
#19 ·
Isn't this apples and oranges? Wouldnt applying a heat dissipating sticker to the hand guard simply transfer the heat TO the hand guard?

I know nothing about thermodynamics, but it seems like any thin material would dissipate heat faster than a thicker piece of the same material (assuming they were both heated to the same constant temp). Educate me please!
 
#21 ·
Isn't this apples and oranges? Wouldnt applying a heat dissipating sticker to the hand guard simply transfer the heat TO the hand guard?

I know nothing about thermodynamics, but it seems like any thin material would dissipate heat faster than a thicker piece of the same material (assuming they were both heated to the same constant temp). Educate me please!
This is something we would have to test and see. What this material is very good at is dissipating heat it absorbs. If it is used as a hand guard liner; then we would expect it and the handguard to transfer heat to each other because they are touching (this is called conduction). We suspect that even though the material is touching the hand guard; it will pull heat away from it and dissipate into the airspace surrounding the barrel (this is called convextion).

Basically, our thought is... Heat from the barrel reaches a standard aluminum handguard. The handguard does a pretty goodjob at blocking (insulating) the heat from the plastic/wood handguard. However, it also absorbs and holds onto heat much longer than our material - which means you have a hot piece of aluminum under your handguard that is ALSO radiating heat which can be felt through the handguard. We suspect than our material might not be as good as blocking (insulating) heat than aluminum, but it far exceeds it in dissipating heat. If the NET dissipation of our material is greater than the NET insulation of aluminum, then it will keep your hand cooler as well as save you weight.

We are in the process of procuring premises (gun range) that will let us use their range for some rapid fire testing. We need an indoor/ temperature controlled environment for a controlled test.

We have already destroyed several handguards in basic testings. Immediate result have show promise in both stand handguards (AR15), MOE handguards (AR15) and Mini-14 factory plastic handguards with aluminum liner.
 
#24 ·
Davcruz - Typo...darn (x) is too close to the (c) on the keyboard.

As far as Choate stocks; by applying a layer of this material; we would suspect it would lessen the heat by

(1) Acting as a insulating material to the Choate hand guard
(2) Dissipate heat away from the handguard

This material essentially does not like to hold heat. So any heat it gets from the barrel it is going to pass on to the environment or whatever it is in contact with. Depending on the coatings we use, we could look to only coat on side of the material (with the back being used as an adhesive surface) so that the side facing the barrel is coated and heat would essentially roll over it and through the vent holes; thus sparring the handguard from absorbing heat which would burn your hand.
 
#25 ·
Kudu87:

I work for a defense contracter and we do alot of welding -ALOT of welding. :ph34r: Could your material be layered to form a cloth that could be used to replace the leathers our folks use for protection from weld splater and UV protection? It would have to be flexable enough to allow for freedom of movement and lighter than leathers. Individual parts could designed, with heavy duty snaps and shoulder straps, to allow sleeves to be attached to a welding shirt of sorts made of the same material, perhaps layered with your special adhesive like fiberglass.;)

Just a thought. :)

CD :usa: :sniper:
 
#26 ·
It absolutely could. We have already designed and built a jacket for that same goal for men and woman who work in steel mills around extreme temperatures and the pouring of heat molten steel to protect from splatter. These are not in production, but it was something we played with.

We ran into some problems with the coating of the material cracking (thus reducing its effectiveness) on heavily articulated seams/joints. We have since fixed this problem, but sense then we got busy and have not revisited the idea of protective garments.
 
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