Rifles Misc All rifles not covered elsewhere!

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Old 11-06-2012, 06:28   #776
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Originally Posted by 2dumb2kwit View Post
Grumpy old man, I can't find fault with anything that you said. On top of what you said, I'm an old country boy, so I am most comfortable with a revolver, lever action rifle and a pump shotgun. That's what I grew up with. And if anyone doesn't think that combo will take care of you in a bad situation, you should go check out some cowboy action shooting.
Thanks 2dumb2kwit;

While I own mini's, AK's, etc (long time "gun guy" over here), I found myself looking through my safe thinking about which of the guns I had would actually be the most useful in Katrina/Sandy devastated parts of the country and that's what prompted the above. I could easily see myself EDC my S&W 642 while getting relief supplies, but even my 1911 would be "big" unless the weather let me wear a really heavy coat - with a predictably slow draw from under a really heavy coat. Seems like the little J frame in any convenient pocket would be fastest to deploy, least likely to be spotted by the sheeple or authorities, and would be with me 24/7. Out of the semi auto rifles, my wood stocked blue Mini with Nikon 3-9x40 telescope is the most 'sporting looking' and would still probably raise eyebrows in a deeply urban area. And if confiscated would cost far more to replace than my $350 wally world grade Marlin 336 that is 100% reliable and is a tack driver to within the limits of my aging vision. So the Marlin 336 would seem to get the nod over all my $$ semi-autos, which would stay safely locked away. And for a shotgun, while I like the extended magazines, if I lived in a deeply urban area, I think I would go to a "non-extended" 870 with wood stock and 18-20" open cylinder bbl. It would be the least likely to have the sheeple reporting me ("hey its just for deer/duck hunting" - they won't know anything about bbl lengths and chokes). A police gun with extended mag and tacticool accessories probably won't be any more use against the threats I will actually face yet could cause unwanted attention or issues with a jury if I actually have to use it.

One modification to that would be a "bail out" situation where my family had to hoof it with one carload of supplies - it may be better to caliber standardize then. For me that would be the J frame, GP100 to keep with the car, and Marlin 1894C. And that 12 gauge for security is hard to beat. Sound good? Of course the minimal would still be some sort of affordable 12 ga. and the J frame for someone starting out with very limited $$; that way they could put more money into rations, generator, etc.

Just seems like we sometimes focus too much on the high end high dollar status guns when suggesting guns to those prepping, and don't focus enough on what a SHTF situation really looks like. We now have had two of them in under a decade, and I wonder what is next?

All the best,
Grumpy

Last edited by grumpy_old_man; 11-06-2012 at 08:17.
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Old 11-06-2012, 16:27   #777
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Once again, Grumpy, you are dispensing good advice in a calm, reasonable tone. How unbloglike. I take pretty much the same view as you on this in that I would go with my wood-stocked Mini-30 with iron sights (after a upgrade to the rear sight to match my new Mo-Reaper front. With a leather sling and a 5-round mag in place, I think that provides a pretty low profile. I have an old OG Army field jacket with ample pockets for 4-6 20-round magazines if needed. If I have to leave the base to help neighbors, scrounge resources, or any other reason, I have a nice small neutral-color backpack with Camelbak insert for useful stuff. For backup to the long gun I have my S&W 640 (for the same reasons you cite) and a 5-round Model 97 12 guage in reserve. The really scary stuff would stay out of sight unless it completely dropped in the pot.

I like your understanding that the most likely scenarios posit a return to law and order in some form and we are likely to be held accountable for our actions after the fact.
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Old 11-10-2012, 10:47   #778
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Waz up folks? I'm a newbie to the site and have a tech question. I just Purchased a Windham Weaponry Ar-15 and want to add a little cheap laser that clamps lightly on the end of the barrel. Will this affect the proper heat dissapation of the barrel or is anything clamped on the barrel a no-no?
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Old 11-12-2012, 15:51   #779
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I'll used my M4, thanks, with the folding stock. I don't CARE that I can't fire it with the stock folded. My pistol will either cover me until I can unfold the stock, or I'll take the chance of parts damage, if I need to have the rifle's range/power. The M4, stock folded, is capable of being carried concealed, either slung under arm, under a coat, or take 5 seconds to break the receiever into its 2 "halves", and 10 seconds to reassemble it and fire. thus "broken down", it conceals very well in a backpack.

The EDC 9mm is the way to go for a shtf pistol, cause it rides in a front pants pocket holster, out of the way of both the backpack harness and the rifle, slung or not.

Nobody is going to be carrying both a rifle and a shotgun, and you can't shoot or intimidate anyone with gun you aint GOT, right? :-) A big pistol is a big hassle to conceal, or even carry out of the way, when also carrying a rifle and a backpack. What you need it for, when you've got an assault rifle on the sling (if you have any sense, that is)? Why would anyone settle for having HALF as much speed into action, or speed of repeat hits, with a lever action vs the autoloader, hmm? the sheeple and the cops are going to freak out at the sight of ANY gun, people. It being a "non auto" rifle aint going to change a thing when it comes to that aspect of things. Looter types are still going to want to kill you for your stuff, too.

If you are firing enough to get the barrel that hot, you are MISSING too much. Add a set of Norton "earvalve" sonic ear plugs to your kit. they block loud noises, while letting you hear normal sounds. About $25. You can set it up to have them in a little clamshell pouch, on a lanyard to your belt, but in your pocket. They can be in your ears in 4-5 seconds, if you can get to cover. they will double your effective range and hit rate, when it's for real.

If sleeping rough, they will also keep bugs out of your ears. An ear is a perfect place for a bug to hide out, and once in there, they are hell to extract, and drive you crazy until you do get them out.
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Old 11-12-2012, 22:39   #780
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I get it Whoa. It's your way or the highway. I guess I'm too stupid the see the logic of your rambling, argumentative posts. You know, you can post your own opinions without denegrating others. Try it. Who knows, you may like it.
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Old 11-12-2012, 22:51   #781
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... these are my SHTF guns:
Attached Thumbnails
SHTF Guns-cz-97b-45acp.jpg   SHTF Guns-mossberg-590.jpg  
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Old 11-13-2012, 00:03   #782
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Originally Posted by CallSignShoobeeFMFPac View Post
... these are my SHTF guns:
like that 590 marinecoat! i just traded for a 500 with the 20" barrel & extended mag tube.
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Old 11-13-2012, 07:46   #783
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Originally Posted by whoa View Post
I'll used my M4, thanks, with the folding stock. I don't CARE that I can't fire it with the stock folded. My pistol will either cover me until I can unfold the stock, or I'll take the chance of parts damage, if I need to have the rifle's range/power. The M4, stock folded, is capable of being carried concealed, either slung under arm, under a coat, or take 5 seconds to break the receiever into its 2 "halves", and 10 seconds to reassemble it and fire. thus "broken down", it conceals very well in a backpack.

The EDC 9mm is the way to go for a shtf pistol, cause it rides in a front pants pocket holster, out of the way of both the backpack harness and the rifle, slung or not.

Nobody is going to be carrying both a rifle and a shotgun, and you can't shoot or intimidate anyone with gun you aint GOT, right? :-) A big pistol is a big hassle to conceal, or even carry out of the way, when also carrying a rifle and a backpack. What you need it for, when you've got an assault rifle on the sling (if you have any sense, that is)? Why would anyone settle for having HALF as much speed into action, or speed of repeat hits, with a lever action vs the autoloader, hmm? the sheeple and the cops are going to freak out at the sight of ANY gun, people. It being a "non auto" rifle aint going to change a thing when it comes to that aspect of things. Looter types are still going to want to kill you for your stuff, too.

If you are firing enough to get the barrel that hot, you are MISSING too much. Add a set of Norton "earvalve" sonic ear plugs to your kit. they block loud noises, while letting you hear normal sounds. About $25. You can set it up to have them in a little clamshell pouch, on a lanyard to your belt, but in your pocket. They can be in your ears in 4-5 seconds, if you can get to cover. they will double your effective range and hit rate, when it's for real.

If sleeping rough, they will also keep bugs out of your ears. An ear is a perfect place for a bug to hide out, and once in there, they are hell to extract, and drive you crazy until you do get them out.
A lever action or tube fed pump is the ultimate KISS rifle. Duty size hanguns are easier to hit with due to the longer sight radius. You would carry it in case your rifle breaks, maybe from firing it with the stock folded? Depending on the situation I might end up packing a 20 ga. Mossberg with an HD barrel and a 1x4 scope with a lit reticle along with my Ruger 22-45 4 inch, both have lights mounted on them and I have spare batteries. I have an M4orgy and an AR and minis and an Alice rig and mag pouches but dunno how far I could carry all that stuff along with everything I would need to survive for even a week. The earplug comment is gold tho. My MSA headset is prolly too bulky, but I do love being able to turn the mikes up.
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Old 11-13-2012, 16:28   #784
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Old 11-15-2012, 22:29   #785
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Old 11-16-2012, 05:55   #786
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Old 11-16-2012, 12:35   #787
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14 round Rossi 92 lever in 357 to go with handguns, a few AR's, Mini's, an if the S really hit the fan a hacksaw blade would be used on couple of 12 ga side by sides although I'd prefer a Benelli M4 or two...
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Old 11-16-2012, 13:31   #788
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I'm glad I read this because when I first saw this topic I thought that I dont really have a good emergency gun by the interpretations of many people because many people would say you need a Mini or AR or AK or whatever semi auto high cap rifle would be the best SHTF gun. But then I saw you mentioned the pump shotgun which I do have! At first I was thinking that my British Enfield rifle might be my best SHTF solution but the good old 12 gauge pump is probably better for general use unless the perpetrator is 100 yards+. So I guess I am in OK shape for now but I still want a good semi auto short rifle like an AR or Mini in the not so far away future.
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Old 11-17-2012, 03:44   #789
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A good concealable sidearm is probably going to be more good in a SHTF situation unless its a full blown WORL situation. If theres roving gangs out and about or a zombie apocalypse then yes long guns would be carried but if theres still LE out and about like there will be when things first go to hell I think maintaining a low profile will be the best option.
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Old 11-27-2012, 00:34   #790
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Old 11-27-2012, 09:11   #791
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Originally Posted by GoldCoast View Post
I'm glad I read this because when I first saw this topic I thought that I dont really have a good emergency gun by the interpretations of many people because many people would say you need a Mini or AR or AK or whatever semi auto high cap rifle would be the best SHTF gun. But then I saw you mentioned the pump shotgun which I do have! At first I was thinking that my British Enfield rifle might be my best SHTF solution but the good old 12 gauge pump is probably better for general use unless the perpetrator is 100 yards+. So I guess I am in OK shape for now but I still want a good semi auto short rifle like an AR or Mini in the not so far away future.
Hi GoldCoast;

Which Enfield have you got? No1 MKIII or No 4? What shape is the bbl in? If the bbl is good and you have a stash of a couple hundred rounds of good clean hunting ammo for it, it may be a fine SHTF rifle for the hunting end of the equation. Not bad at all for self defense either. Brits had some techniques for very quick bolt manipulation on that one that puts it in a different league than the Mauser action up close. Also very fast to reload with stripper clips once you master them.

These days I'm building individual BOB packages around different scenarios so I can just grab the appropriate one and go out the door with it if need be.

The configuration I would consider if I was using what you describe is a two long gun bag with the shotgun and the Enfield in it, say 100 ctgs for the rifle and 50x 00 buck for the shotgun, along with a sidearm. If you don't have a pistol or revolver I would put it on the 'to do' list above any Mini or AR if SHTF is a consideration. If you're just worried about some future gun ban, then buy an AR lower NOW, along with a lower parts kit. That way your lower will be completed to at least a pistol grip and telescoping butt (both rumored to be features Pelosi and Feinstein want banned). Buy an upper kit or piece it together from that point forward as money, availability, and politics allow.

Just some thoughts.

All the best,
Grumpy
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Old 11-28-2012, 09:30   #792
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My SHTF weapons...

1. HK91, bipod and scoped with 4x-16x Nikon Monarch scope
2. Ruger 10/22
3. Ruger Gunsite Scout (.308) w/EOTech 522XR308 NV scope
4. Springfield XD (.40 cal) pistol

Of course I think one BIG point missing from this discussion is locale. Shotguns, AK's and AR-15's make way more sense in urban/suburban environments. In rural areas, I don't think there is a substitute for .308. If I could only have one gun, right now I'd have to pick the HK91 for firepower and reliability, although the RGS is way lighter...
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Old 11-28-2012, 10:33   #793
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Originally Posted by Mirage View Post
1. HK91, bipod and scoped with 4x-16x Nikon Monarch scope
2. Ruger 10/22
3. Ruger Gunsite Scout (.308) w/EOTech 522XR308 NV scope
4. Springfield XD (.40 cal) pistol

Of course I think one BIG point missing from this discussion is locale. Shotguns, AK's and AR-15's make way more sense in urban/suburban environments. In rural areas, I don't think there is a substitute for .308. If I could only have one gun, right now I'd have to pick the HK91 for firepower and reliability, although the RGS is way lighter...
Agreed. The .556 is limited in application in my region as compared to the .762 cartridge. I have incorporated the smaller round into my long term plans, 2nd string, though as the .556 will be a commonly found salvage ammunition.

I like the M14/M1A family of arms and find the .762 much more confidence inspiring in terms of self defence efficacy than the varmint round but I cannot deny the benefits of the smaller NATO round in an All Fall Down scenario.

I recently had the opportunity to spend a few hours with a DS FAL rifle out on the Wyoming prairie. Wish I hadn't done that...
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Old 11-29-2012, 05:44   #794
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My new SHTF firearm is a work in progress.
M14 with a 16.25" barrel fed by a 50 round drum.

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Last edited by H2O MAN; 12-04-2012 at 05:30.
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Old 11-29-2012, 07:21   #795
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Old 11-29-2012, 07:30   #796
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Originally Posted by Mirage View Post
1. HK91, bipod and scoped with 4x-16x Nikon Monarch scope
2. Ruger 10/22
3. Ruger Gunsite Scout (.308) w/EOTech 522XR308 NV scope
4. Springfield XD (.40 cal) pistol

Of course I think one BIG point missing from this discussion is locale. Shotguns, AK's and AR-15's make way more sense in urban/suburban environments. In rural areas, I don't think there is a substitute for .308. If I could only have one gun, right now I'd have to pick the HK91 for firepower and reliability, although the RGS is way lighter...
Hi Mirage;

It's not missing - I was writing specifically about the deeply urban areas affected by Sandy and Katrina, in which ROL was never entirely absent, and the powers that be would take a dim view of openly carried AR's and AK's.

Now, for a deeply rural setting in open country, the .308 has a lot more potential - as does the '06, 7.92 Mauser, 7.62x54R and .303 Brit. I would be torn between my beloved M1A and a Rem 700 with a spare scope if I was in big sky country. Be nice to have both, but the simplicity of the 700 may win out if a sidearm is available for self defense (frankly, in bear country I would want at least a .44 Mag revolver on my hip).

Never owned an HK91 - back before the first ban I couldn't afford one (but admired it from afar) and this time around I went with the M1A in traditional walnut stock. Be interested to read a comparison of these two very different .308's some time.

All the best,
Grumpy
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Old 12-12-2012, 07:31   #797
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For me, preparing for SHTF has to include affordable practice ammo and a place to practice that simulates a possible reality. So, I built a rifle and pistol range in my yard and I can actually shoot my rifles from any east facing window in the house for about 80 yards before the next fields behind the hedgerows. The west-facing windows allow clear view of the only road which is only 1/4 mile and dead-ends 200 feet past my driveway. I can almost see the turn onto my road from a window, but not quite. I cannot shoot 1/4 mile anyway. I reload all the calibers I shoot except .22 and 12 ga. I only shoot 3 others, .223, .308 and .40 s&w. I shoot them a lot. I simulate potential shtf reality here at home and I have a plan for bug-out with friends in a rural location, which would hopefully be before I ever started shooting up my "neighborhood". I really want an M1a or ar10. The budget simply doesn't permit yet. Other than that, it's mini 14, .223 and .308 savage bolt actions, a 10/22 for my wife and one for me, the m&p 40 and the ithaca 12 ga. If this comes to pass, God help us all.

God bless!

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Old 12-20-2012, 05:33   #798
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Originally Posted by H2O MAN View Post
My new SHTF firearm is a work in progress.
M14 with a 16.25" barrel fed by a 50 round drum.

With a little help my CQB-16-BFRS is done and I think I finished fine tuning it last night.

Here is EBR Ashley checking it out last weekend.




I have other SHTF rifles including lever action rifles that don't
draw much attention, this is just the most recent addition.
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Old 12-24-2012, 00:20   #799
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Someone brought up carry, and how are you going to carry all this stuff around.

I've thought about this some, and think the following realities will be common, depending somewhat on where you are, and what you are "out" for.

A vehicle might not be practical, or then again, it might be totally common.
Clearly, if you have a vehicle, you can carry a heavy weapon and a lighter weapon pretty easy.
But what if you are using a wheel barrow, or garden cart to get your supplies/stuff? Again, you want to have it easy to access, so a "scabbard" on the cart is a great idea.

Consider this: You are going to need water. If your water source is even only a half mile away, you will need to haul enough water to keep you, and your family hydrated. This is not a simple chore, but one that you must do every few days in reality, and while you are out getting water, you are open to threats/attack.

Just like in nature, "water holes" are natural pinch points for getting not only a drink, but a meal. (IE: Supplies from the weak by the strong.)

You can be followed back, and ambushed too. Using the same route, and having a patrol type setup can be much safer, as nobody wants to take on a few people if they can just confront one and be done.

So, let's say you have to walk that 1/2 mile to get water, and you have 4, 5 gallon jugs to haul it back in. That's 20 gallons of water, and about 8 lbs per gallon, that's 160 lbs of just water... Add in 20 for your weapons and some other supplies, and you have nearly 200lbs of loadout.

You are going to need a good cart my friends. Or an ATV/Truck/Car etc. If you can get a posse of guys to go get 500lbs of water in one truck, and go as a group of of 4 guys in a large truck loaded up with 5 gallon jugs, you will by that very effort, become a large target, but one that most people with sense will not attack unless you are completely unarmed, and ignorant.

So, what about the opposite? Just you, and no cart? You need water and food, as well as shelter every single day. If the SHTF, and you can't make friends, or get with friends quick, it's not likely you will last long, even if you are armed to the teeth.

I think it's healthy to assume that nobody is going to be your buddy, and everyone is out to kill you for the clothes on your back, let alone the hardware you might have hidden in those clothes.

Just thinking out loud.

One thing I do know is that money as we think of it now will be mostly worthless in a true SHTF world.

Trade for things with real value will rule the day. Gold might buy you a meal, but 10 rounds of .22LR might buy you a few days worth of food.
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Old 12-24-2012, 08:47   #800
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I remember years ago someone made a under barrel mount to attach under an ar style weapon and replace the grenade launcher with a pistol grip 12ga pump

Is that still available?
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