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Old 10-29-2010, 05:13   #626
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Originally Posted by Adjuster View Post
The big choice now is what Eotech or red dot sight I want for the CX4.
I personally went with an Aimpoint for this application. If things really went south, do you want a sight with battery life measured in days or years? Aimpoint battery life on the entry-level red-dot that I have has a battery life of 4 years of constant on usage.

Jim
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Old 10-29-2010, 12:37   #627
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If Aimpoint could somehow make a reticle that was EoTech style, I'd never buy another brand of red dot.

Personally I'd go with like, a EoTech 552/555, and just keep a bag of quality AA's on hand.

Or an M4 series Aimpoint. AA's are still gonna be way easier to find than CR123's or button batteries.

Or you could ditch the batteries altogether and get like a Trijicon Reflex.

Or if you wanted to be really bling, you could get a red-dot that costs as much as your CX-4. Like the M4, or an ITL MARS.
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Old 10-29-2010, 12:42   #628
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M4 does not use button batteries. Cheap knock offs do. I bought two extra batteries for my Aimpoint, they look like shorter, fatter AA batteries.

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Old 10-29-2010, 13:16   #629
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Yep. M4/M4S Aimpoints use AA's, my ML3 uses 2L76/DL1-3N batteries.

If I were gonna suggest one, my advice goes like this.

Don't have any Aimpoints? Spring for an M4. A little more pricey, but it's the best they've come out with yet, and it uses super-common batteries. Plus it comes with it's own mount, so you don't have to buy one.

If you're like me and have an older gen model (I've got an ML3 4MOA laying around right now, waiting to go on Eli's carbine), you can probably just keep what you've got unless you really really have to have the AA battery thing. Or you find a really smoking deal on a used one.
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Old 11-07-2010, 01:40   #630
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Cost is an issue. (I just traded two rifles I don't use anymore, and a stock and barrel that have been upgraded on my 1022... so don't use that anymore either.)

Out of pocket, zero.

So the only money I'm going to spend was on the optic. (Iron sights are fine, but I like the options an optic can give you such as magnification, or enhanced sight visability.)

After quite a bit of research, I ended up buying a Vortex Strikefire. (Nearly went with the Vortex SPARC, but it was another 50.00, and while it's tiny, light and easy to use, and I love the captured caps, I liked the way the larger Strikefire was when I mounted it on the carbine.)

So, let's hope that my stash of a few common batteries for my optics will be all I ever need. (They are Lithium, so they really last a long time, and while they are not as common as AA or AAA batteries, they are still pretty easy to find, and last a long time in real world use.)

This optic has a 2x doubler that can be screwed into place easy, is 1x without it, has a 4 moa dot that you can toggle between green or red, depending on what works best for what your shooting conditions are. Has Night Vision capability, nice, but I own none... LOL

Has easy to use toggle up or down brightness. (Just like EoTech in that regard.) When you turn it off, it retains what ever color/brightness setting you had, even NV. When you turn it on, it's there to start with. Nice touch.

I have the AR style mount, and nearly can see the BUIS through the hole in the mount... After I try this for awhile, I might see about finding a slightly taller sight, or do some surgery on this one and make it possible to just look through it, and retain the BUIS as well as the red/green dot.

As a SHTF gun, this is a good option using the same magazines as my PT99, and even the 32 rounder fits. If you had to, you could use this carbine to take down anything from a rabbit to a small deer. Reviews have it showing +P rounds at 1500fps or more, with good accuracy to 100yds. (Shoots flat at that range.) I figure a JHP 9mm round should be pretty dang potent still at that range, especially if it's +P.

And my PT99 has a .22LR Ciner kit, so it could pull double duty as a nice small game tool, while still being able to be much more potent as a 9MM pistol for personal protection.

Not sure this will replace my FS2000 as the go to gun if the SHTF, but it's got a lot of potential as a good backup weapon that extends the range and potency of the 9mm round I already will have on hand. (And a good carbine that my wife or kids can use for game or defense as well.)
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Old 11-16-2010, 15:19   #631
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Originally Posted by stampage View Post
#1- Rem 870
#2- Mini 14
#3- S&W .357
#4- Ruger 10/22

These are the guns I have now, but I don't think I would grab the .22 in a SHTF situation. Mine jams way to much. But the first 3 are about as reliable as you can get.
That is kinda like my list

#1 mini 14
#2 Saiga S-12
#3 S&W .357
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Old 11-26-2010, 12:57   #632
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Originally Posted by Snapping Twig View Post
I trained with and own a full size Kimber Custom CDP II (internal extractor as St. John designed it )

I bought some of Kimber's 8 round stainless mags and I would use those exclusively. As to the extra rounds you may wish to have on your person, one or two of the same 8 round mags works well.

Remember, dependability is almost as important as shot placement. Uber mags of questionable dependability are a non starter as they may fail leaving you with a jam, therefore in a jam, at a bad time.

Our discussions here are theoretical at best, God wiling we will never experience such events. I believe in the Jeff Cooper school of thought of developing the basics and training, training and training some more.

Uber mags lend themselves to the spray and pray method. All the really great gunfighters have said the same thing - hurry up slowly. Aim - fire - done deal.
Good post. I agree with most of what you say; but I respectfully disagree with some of it.

When you say:
Originally Posted by Snapping Twig View Post
Remember, dependability is almost as important as shot placement...
I'd have to reverse the order and say that dependability is WAY more important than shot placement. In fact, reliability is THE MOST important thing in any combat firearm. If your weapon fails to function, none of the other factors---accurate shot placement, stopping power---even come into play.

For example, facing three armed attackers at close range: would you rather have a super-accurate .45 'race-gun' that jammed after the first shot---or a reasonably accurate .22LR that fired every time you pulled the trigger?

And I respectfully differ with your take on hi-capacity mags:
Originally Posted by Snapping Twig View Post
Uber mags lend themselves to the spray and pray method. All the really great gunfighters have said the same thing - hurry up slowly. Aim - fire - done deal.
+1 to the gunfighting advice from the old gunfighters, 'Hurry up slowly'.
I've also heard it said, 'Take your time... quickly'.
Slow is smooth, smooth is fast.
Missed shots don't count, however fast you deliver them.

But as far as hi-cap mags lending themselves to spray and pray, that ENTIRELY depends on the shooter. Hi-cap mags don't "lend themselves" to anything: they function in whatever way the shooter does. A hi-cap mag in the hands of a shooter who carefully places every shot just means he'll have more surgically-placed shots he can deliver.

But I agree that there are people out there who think that because they have 15 shots in their pistol, they can get sloppy and send a lot of lead in the general direction of their opponent and hope one will connect. But this is a 'shooter problem', not an equipment problem.

And when you say, 'Aim - fire - done deal', that may be true when you're facing one single opponent in an old-West style showdown. But in modern urban settings, when you may be facing multiple opponents, it's more like 'aim - fire - aim - fire - aim - fire - aim - fire'... You get my drift. In a situation like that, the more rounds the better.

Not to mention the fact that one shot of any pistol caliber can't be relied on to put a man down. Some fall on the first shot; some keep fighting until they're dead on their feet. In the infamous Miami shootout of 1987, the BG's had taken multiple hits from handgun rounds, but kept on shooting and killing people til their blood ran out.
The rule of those who know is, keep shooting at your opponents until they are all on the ground. And for those kinds of situations, the more rounds in your gun, the better.

Last edited by LittleBill; 11-27-2010 at 10:00.
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Old 11-27-2010, 09:54   #633
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Originally Posted by TooFarGone View Post
Yep. M4/M4S Aimpoints use AA's, my ML3 uses 2L76/DL1-3N batteries.

If I were gonna suggest one, my advice goes like this.

Don't have any Aimpoints? Spring for an M4. A little more pricey, but it's the best they've come out with yet, and it uses super-common batteries. Plus it comes with it's own mount, so you don't have to buy one.
Ditto that. For me, the biggest advantage of the Comp M4---besides the fact that it uses easy-to-find AA's---is the battery life: 80,000 hours! That means you can leave it on all the time, and it will last 8 years!

For me, having my go-to rifle ready to go without having to worry about turning the knob on, could be a big plus in a real emergency situation.

Plus, they're combat-proven rugged...
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Old 11-30-2010, 05:52   #634
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I would agree 100% that reliability is the most important asset to have on the outset. When I picked up an XD40 for very little, it took me awhile to replace my Glock19 with it, even though I can shoot it better than the Glock......as it had to prove itself to be reliable.

It is currently my go-to sidearm.
Primary rifles are my 18.5in barrel M14 types.
10-22's cover the rimfire utility role
Everything else is secondary, and/or fills small niches in the overall scheme of things.



Also a firm follower of the "1 is none/2 is one" train of thought when it comes to long guns. The backup to the XD is a Ruger GP-100 for now.

11B

Last edited by fragout2000; 05-04-2011 at 23:29.
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Old 05-01-2011, 13:21   #635
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My SHTF guns

I live in Michigan and have hunted all my life, I feel in a SHTF the number of guns you have do not matter, you should be proficient with the ones you have on hand and can carry if needed and use if you must. I use for hunting a Remington 7400 w/ a 3x15x50mm autofocus scope and several 10round clips, a Mosin 91/50, a Remington .35, a 10/22 and my wife and daughter can shoot all of them well, I do keep a minimum of 1000 rounds for each and a little more for the .22.
I was a Navy Corpsman but it was my dad who taught me to shoot and the Marines to make me that much better shot.


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Old 05-02-2011, 15:56   #636
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They have killed people with icepicks, too, both mean about as much, practically speaking. Are you guys aware that the 223 AR has OWNED the 600 yd line at NRA High Power matches, for 12 years or so now, ever since Berger brought out the 80 gr VLD (very low drag) match bullets? Now there is a 90 gr VLD and the 223 AR's are fully competitive with 308's at the 1000 yd matchs. :-) Hard to believe, but if you will Google for the Palma matches, you will see that it is true.
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Old 05-02-2011, 16:00   #637
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How will you get enemies to wait while you go get the "ideal" gun for a given scenario? If you get caught inside 500 yds by several guys with AR's and all you have is a bolt action, you will get killed for sure. Ditto if all you have is a shotgun and 3-4 guys with AK's are using cover at 100 yds or so. How will you carry both the 1022 and a fighting rifle? The 22 lr adapter makes the AR-15 the ideal shtf gun. Such a setup can do it all. you do not want to waste a shotshell on a rabbit or a bird and have all that noise bring those guys with Ak's running to see what that dummy with the 12 ga just shot, is that not correct?
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Old 05-02-2011, 21:28   #638
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tap:
As for the AR's use in 600 yard matches, a friend set records with the AR at 200 and 600 yards, while on a military marksmanship team.
He retired from the Reserves on the team, and still competes at Camp Perry etc.
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Old 05-10-2011, 11:39   #639
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yeah, these guys all "think" that because they tried shooting with no good military ball, iron sights, or with short ranged, plain based, semi blunt softpoints and could n't do anything beyond 400 yds, that NOBODY can do so, with no sort of 223! :-) I am here to prove how wrong they are.
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Old 05-10-2011, 14:16   #640
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Originally Posted by tap View Post
I am here to prove how wrong they are.
Then get on with it and quit just talking.
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Old 05-11-2011, 13:52   #641
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Originally Posted by bmcgilvray View Post
Then get on with it and quit just talking.
+1, witnessed pics of all this fantasic stuff would be nice.
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Old 05-12-2011, 10:55   #642
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nothing fantastic about it, just a lot of hard work over a span of many years. Had the Feds not stolen 18 years from me, there would be all sorts of much more interesting stuff been done. As soon as I get back my rights, there will be lots of such things in the future, too. :-) Soon, my detractors will all be eating you know what. :-) I'm the real deal, always was, and always will be and I am going to prove it, within 4 years, mark my words.
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Old 05-12-2011, 12:28   #643
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u better hit with the FIRST shot, most of the time and if you are behind cover, as you SHOULD be within a second or so of being shot at, it doesn't really matter if your rifle malfunctions 1 time in 10 shots. Look at all the fools who THINK that a bolt action is still a viable combat rifle, ferchrisakes. It takes a bolt user 6 seconds to get 4 hits on a 25 yd chest circle (10") while it takes and AR=15 user the same amount of time to get 24 hits. :-) Or he can get the 4 hits in 1 second flat. So, having to take 1.5 seconds to clear a malfunction, and 2.5 seconds to get the other 9 hits totals 4 seconds, still WAY ahead of a bolt action fan's 15 seconds, and about tied with the very best possible performance with a lever action. Look at all the fools who "think" a lever action is "almost" as fast as an autoloader! :-) Yeah, like a 20 second 100 yd dash is "almost as fast" as a 10 second 100 yd dash! In practice, the lever action is lethally slower than the autorifle, guys.
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Old 05-12-2011, 12:34   #644
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Originally Posted by tap View Post
nothing fantastic about it, just a lot of hard work over a span of many years. Had the Feds not stolen 18 years from me, there would be all sorts of much more interesting stuff been done. As soon as I get back my rights, there will be lots of such things in the future, too. :-) Soon, my detractors will all be eating you know what. :-) I'm the real deal, always was, and always will be and I am going to prove it, within 4 years, mark my words.
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Tap are you Will Ferrel?
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Old 05-12-2011, 12:38   #645
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Originally Posted by tap View Post
I'm the real deal, always was, and always will be and I am going to prove it, within 4 years, mark my words.
Have you apprised your parole officer of your plans?
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Old 05-12-2011, 18:40   #646
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Originally Posted by tap View Post
nothing fantastic about it, just a lot of hard work over a span of many years. Had the Feds not stolen 18 years from me, there would be all sorts of much more interesting stuff been done. As soon as I get back my rights, there will be lots of such things in the future, too. :-) Soon, my detractors will all be eating you know what. :-) I'm the real deal, always was, and always will be and I am going to prove it, within 4 years, mark my words.
cool, i can't wait to see this on CNN

"deranged internet cowboy re-arrested for violation of terms of parole, forum members laugh at the wheelbarrow warrior."
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Old 05-12-2011, 20:08   #647
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Originally Posted by tap View Post
Had the Feds not stolen 18 years from me
The feds stole 18 years from you? You mean you didn't do anything that was illegal or that could be considered a felony, or anything like that? They just showed up one day and tossed you in the pen for 18 years straight for no reason? You should press charges.
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Old 05-12-2011, 20:14   #648
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this tap guy sounds like like a sissy to me. and by sissy i mean the other word.
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Old 05-12-2011, 21:13   #649
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Hey! What happened to "I'm the one with the mini 14?" Another defector?

Do think it's time we reclaimed assault rifle tho.
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Old 05-12-2011, 23:52   #650
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Originally Posted by tap View Post
nothing fantastic about it, just a lot of deluding myself over a span of many years. Had the Feds not rightfully incarcerated me for 18 years, there would be all sorts of much more illict stuff been done. As soon as I get back my rights, (you won't Tap - you screwed up your life and went to jail all on your own... and once a scumbag always a scumbag) there will be lots of such things in the future, too. :-( Soon, I will be eating Tasty Hotpockets. :-) I'm a real Joke, always was, and always will be and I am going to prove it, within 4 years, mark my words.
Here, I fixed your statement to something more resembling the truth for you
edits marked in red

the blue addition is just an editors note
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