Rifles Misc All rifles not covered elsewhere!

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Old 10-10-2007, 09:18   #26
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Originally Posted by Snapping Twig View Post
Only as an academic exercise...

I'd go with what I trained with - 1911 for enclosed spaces.
A question on the use of the 1911 for CQC. I just got my first one recently, and am loving it. But I'm a little confused over the whole thing with mags for 1911's. I've got the BASIC story: the original Browning design was for the 7rd, then some modern designers have basically figured out how to efficiently pack 8rd into the same space occupied by 7rd, although people often find that the 8rd are less reliable, depending what brand you buy. And then if you're willing to get mags that extend out of the gun, there's 10rd, and on up.

My question is, if you were going to use your 1911 as a SHTF gun for CQC, would you use hi-cap mags of 10rd or even greater? And if so, what mags are most reliable for that purpose?
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Old 10-10-2007, 09:20   #27
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Originally Posted by armoredman View Post
U
In any case the sidearm of choice remains the same, CZ-PO1 9mm, with Crimson Trace Lasergrips.
Love that CZ PO1. I've heard great things about it in numerous reviews, most recently at the Madogre.com site, but also in pro gun mags. What specifically do you like about the way that it shoots?
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Old 10-10-2007, 13:56   #28
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Originally Posted by timlt View Post
A question on the use of the 1911 for CQC. I just got my first one recently, and am loving it. But I'm a little confused over the whole thing with mags for 1911's. I've got the BASIC story: the original Browning design was for the 7rd, then some modern designers have basically figured out how to efficiently pack 8rd into the same space occupied by 7rd, although people often find that the 8rd are less reliable, depending what brand you buy. And then if you're willing to get mags that extend out of the gun, there's 10rd, and on up.

My question is, if you were going to use your 1911 as a SHTF gun for CQC, would you use hi-cap mags of 10rd or even greater? And if so, what mags are most reliable for that purpose?

I trained with and own a full size Kimber Custom CDP II (internal extractor as St. John designed it )

I bought some of Kimber's 8 round stainless mags and I would use those exclusively. As to the extra rounds you may wish to have on your person, one or two of the same 8 round mags works well.

Remember, dependability is almost as important as shot placement. Uber mags of questionable dependability are a non starter as they may fail leaving you with a jam, therefore in a jam, at a bad time.

Our discussions here are theoretical at best, God wiling we will never experience such events. I believe in the Jeff Cooper school of thought of developing the basics and training, training and training some more.

Uber mags lend themselves to the spray and pray method. All the really great gunfighters have said the same thing - hurry up slowly. Aim - fire - done deal.
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Old 10-11-2007, 09:10   #29
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timlt, the CZ grip fits me like a glove, and the PO1 like a custom made glove. I deliberately use smaller targets at the range, so I can cuss my shooting ability, but I know for a fact I can hit a person reliably in the A-Zone at 25 yards and beyond. Stock CZ triggers do tend to be gritty, but wearing in makes them glass smooth. I have fired almost every make and model of sidearms available, (up to 6 years ago, when I worked an indoor rental range, AND test fired all incoming trade ins.), and the CZ series works best for me. I am hoping to get a CZ-P06 40SW soon, and maybe an SP01 next year.
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Old 10-11-2007, 13:40   #30
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Originally Posted by Shooter McNasty View Post
A buddy of mine at work was talking about what kinda guns he should go out and buy. We live in SE Michingan and he might go deer hunting. I said go out and buy these in the order there listed.

Wadda You Guys think??


Your friend doesn't sound like a "gun person" so start him off w/ the basics; and then build from there as necessary. I would highly recommend these weapons because they can be used for hunting, plinking, and SHTF. They are also easy to learn how to use properly, without spending a lot of time training.

1. Marlin 336 30/30
2. S&W or Ruger .357 revolver
3. Ruger 10/22

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Old 10-15-2007, 22:18   #31
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I have a PO1. I bought it because of the reviews and the grip. Its actually my wifes pistol. The trigger sucks but it has not been broken in yet. The grip is awsome for a smaller handed shooter like myself. Mags are $50 and that sucks. It is very packable though being pretty small and light. It is not as accarate in my hands as the XD is though. We'll see how it does after a few hundred rounds.
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Old 12-31-2007, 22:37   #32
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My list of SHTF guns would go something like this-

Ruger Mini-30
Glock 22
Remington 870
Ruger 10/22
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Old 01-01-2008, 06:29   #33
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"Your friend doesn't sound like a "gun person" so start him off w/ the basics; and then build from there as necessary. I would highly recommend these weapons because they can be used for hunting, plinking, and SHTF. They are also easy to learn how to use properly, without spending a lot of time training."

1. Marlin 336 30/30
2. S&W or Ruger .357 revolver
3. Ruger 10/22

My opinion, the revolver is way overrated as a trouble free weapon, I've owned all the major brands and own none now. The ejector rod unthreads and locks the gun up, the shell casings get caught behind the star, the cylinder hand wears and lock misaligns and lets the bullets shave lead on the forcing cone. In many if you have to shoot up the base of the shell drags the back plate and binds the cylinder, and the heavy mag loads make some skip rotation. Some of my guns were used many were new, all were far more trouble prone than my p35s or my Gov't models.
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Old 01-01-2008, 08:58   #34
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a good .22LR rifle is absolute neccesary. several good choices there. a good shotgun 12 or 20 also, even a single shot to start, I have a SXS 12 w/improved cyl right and modified left choked. a rifle or carbine, lots of choices but a chambering to fit a pistol is a good idea, even .357 lever or .44 will do for deer hunting in bush country. several different semis will shoot +P loads and would do at under 100 yards.
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Old 01-01-2008, 14:45   #35
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Saiga In .223
Remington 1187 20guage
Remington 597 22 Mag
Ruger 10-22 22 Lr
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Old 06-04-2008, 23:04   #36
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Saiga rifles appear to be a rare breed-don't see comments about them on gun websites, or not often, and they must be fairly new?

Last edited by Ignition Override; 02-26-2009 at 00:19.
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Old 06-05-2008, 14:06   #37
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Originally Posted by Shooter McNasty View Post
A buddy of mine at work was talking about what kinda guns he should go out and buy. We live in SE Michingan and he might go deer hunting. I said go out and buy these in the order there listed.

Rem 870 12 gage, 24" barrel to start off with maybe a 18" later
Glock 23 40 cal
Rem 700 in 30/06, stainless, with iron sights and a good illuminated 3X9 scope
Ruger 10/22 Stainless, folding stock, dot type scope
AR in 223, 16" barrel folding stock. Maybe get a 22 adapter for it

Wadda You Guys think??
My three choices for SHTF would be:
A Glock G22 (updated).
A M1 Garand (updated).
A Mossburg 500.

After that, I would add:

Browning Buckmark or a 22lr conversion for the Glock
Schmidt Rubin K31 7.5x55 (updated)
A Savage Mark II (updated).

Reliability and availability of parts and ammunition needs to be a factor no matter what he chooses.
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Last edited by NotSoFast; 12-21-2008 at 13:44. Reason: Updated preferences.
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Old 06-05-2008, 16:19   #38
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If your 10-22 jams, stick to factory mags, or BC steel-lips. I finally settled on factory, but still have cheapie hicaps for fun at the range. Easier to carry 10rd factory in revolver speedloader pouches threaded onto a belt either around the waist or over the shoulder. 10 years worth of .22LR is easily acquired and squirreled away.

Your centerfire rifles should probably be of military lineage rather than commercial so you can repair and maintain under difficult circumstances without having to hand-fit parts like a gunsmith. Gas guns like the M1A are spendy and spendy to keep fed. If you can't afford a self-loader, get a good bolt action. A good bolt gun with controlled feed descends from Mauser and with very few spare parts are good choices. They don't break often.

If the budget is really tight, a Savage centerfire bolt gun in a military caliber is a top value.

Handgun should be either a common US caliber or if you can lay-in plenty of ammo a 9x18 or 7.62x25 are pretty punchy. Take a gander at the ammo shelves in a gun store. Usually, .44RemMag is a lot more common than either .44Special or .45LC. .357 is more common yet, as is 9x19 and .45ACP.
Shotgun? 12ga, either a pump or single-shot (at least!)

If you go with imported eastern-bloc military guns you almost have to take advantage of low-priced import ammo and stack it deep, since resupply is iffy at best.


How much? Determine what you'd need for a year on your own, then double that. Some would double yet again, but you aren't going to go around shooting unnecessarily drawing attention to yourself, are you? Pitched battles are to be avoided in favor of aimed shots at individuals from a distance, so I'd say ammo can last you awhile.

Double it anyway for TEOTWAWKI, which is worse than SHTF.

Consider reloading. You can do a lot worse than a mallet-operated Lee Loader. You can easily load a box or two for the sighting in and hunting you may do in a year. Often, 1 powder can do for multiple different rifle cartridges. Get projectiles and primers in matching lots so you don't run out of one before the other. That is embarrassing. A couple hundred bullets, same for primers, four or five boxes of brass, and four or five pounds of powder can last many years for just putting meat on the table.
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Old 06-05-2008, 16:58   #39
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I can't be the first to mention the Benelli M4, am I? (may have missed it...):



I would say:
1) Benelli M4
2) Ruger Mini 14
3) Ruger 10/22
4) Beretta 92

With lots of ammo and plenty of mags!!
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Old 06-11-2008, 00:26   #40
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The terrible trio: Marlin 22 LR,Plainfield M1 carbine and Ruger 270.
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Old 12-21-2008, 09:14   #41
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I am going to go with:
Mossy 500 riot gun
My HK G3 clone with several hundred rounds of .308
Any of my Ruger mod 77's in either .308 or .338 Win mag
My Para SSP .45
and my trusty 10/22
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Old 12-21-2008, 10:16   #42
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I don't like the AR's. I don't like the fact that they blow gases back into the chamber to load the next round. Although they are stylish, that does not impress me.

I have been shooting mini 14's for 20 years +- and have never had any problems. They just run. So for me it would be the mini 14 however, I would rather have the power and distance of a 308 win, so my first choice would be an M1A Scout Squad rifle.

I recommend buying a combat sling for whatever rifle you choose. With the right sling your rifle is in position for combat. This is very important.

As for a handgun I like the Sig P230. It is weak in caliber but it is light and very dependable. It will never be a nuisance to carry. The gun on your side is far better then the one you left in the house and all of a sudden needed.

Finally I like the Marlin 22 bolt guns. I like the ability to fire CB Longs which are more quite than a pellet gun and way more devastating as well as firing long rifle cartridges.
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Old 12-21-2008, 10:44   #43
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I wrote this for Front Sight magazine several years ago, so you USPSA members may have already seen this...

WHY WE OWN WHAT WE OWN

We all own guns for different reasons…collecting, self-defense, competition…at least these are the reasons that we’ll admit to. But some of us accumulate a variety of firearms, including military-style weapons and related equipment, for reasons that may seem unfathomable to non gun owners. Why would a professional golfer need an assault vest with a drop-down thigh holster and a fully tricked-out M4? Why would a software engineer need a 33-round magazine designed for a full-auto Glock 18? Many in the media and the general public ask “Why does anyone need an assault rifle?” Let’s take a look at some of the scenarios which many gun owners wisely prepare for.

Zombies

We’ve all seen movies where the dead return to life and walk the earth in search of human flesh to feed upon. If this were to actually occur, a Mini-14 or AR-15 with a dozen 30-round magazines (or better yet, a Beta C-Mag) would be awfully handy. And you will definitely need some sort of optic, since we all know that the only way to put down a zombie is with a head shot. A pair of Glocks with 33-round “monopod” magazines will be useful if you are trapped in an enclosed area and have to engage the undead at point blank range. High power rifles and shotguns will do the job, but they are unnecessarily powerful for the task of disabling zombie brain stems and are handicapped by their limited magazine capacity. If necessary, hole up in a Wal-Mart Supercenter instead of a shopping mall…these small-town economic Death Stars have everything necessary for survival, including food, medical supplies, guns and ammunition.

Foreign Occupation

When our government becomes co-opted by the U.N. and our skies are darkened by black helicopters, the conspiracy theory kooks will be screaming a collective “I told you so!” When that happens, the AR-15 will be the hands-down favorite of the American insurgency, although an SKS or Winchester 94 will do in a pinch. A completely accessorized M4 or AK-47 will be invaluable if you plan on attacking and seizing a National Guard Armory…or a grocery store. And you will need an assault vest or web gear to tote your equipment when you venture out to ambush an enemy column or to patrol your rebel-controlled subdivision.

Escaped Circus/Zoo Animal

This is the premise that those of us who don’t hunt can use to justify to our spouses the purchase of a high power hunting-type rifle. With the exception of very large animals such as elephants and hippos, a .30-06 or 7mm Mag should be able to put down just about any species you’re likely to encounter in the Ringling Brothers menagerie or at the local zoo. A Marlin Guide Gun chambered in .45-70 with full-power loads should prove just as effective at close range, and would also seem to be the ideal rifle to bring along on a hunt for Bigfoot or the Chupacabra.

Rise of the Machines

When robots run amok and your toaster tries to kill you, a .30 battle rifle will be the weapon of choice. The .223 round cannot be counted on to reliably penetrate the combat chassis of a Cyberdyne Systems Model 101 Terminator, but sustained fire (especially with armor-piercing ammo) from an M1A or an FN-FAL may do the trick. An M1 Garand should prove to be a capable alternative as long as you have enough clips. Handguns will generally only be effective on very small machines such as blenders and CD players, but 12 gauge 00 buckshot should be capable of taking out any major home appliance and most push-type lawn mowers. Use slugs on riding mowers and lawn tractors.

Post-Apocalyptic Wasteland

In this scenario, a rifle of the AR/AK/Mini-14 variety and a brace of good quality sidearms will probably be your best bet for keeping marauding bands of looters and starving neighbors from getting their hands on your five-year supply of MRE’s. But exterminating giant mutant insects and/or rodents may require something with a little more oomph. Depending on the size and tenacity of the irradiated vermin, repeating rifles suitable for hunting large dangerous game, such as a Remington 700 chambered in .375 H&H Mag., should do the job on anything up to the size of an Orkin truck. And coating the bullets with Raid or filling hollowpoints with rat poison can’t hurt. If, however, you run into a spider that’s as big as a house, see the section below on dealing with Dinosaurs.

Dinosaurs

Taking on a rampaging Tyrannosaurus Rex is probably beyond the capabilities of the average gun owner, but if you have a Barrett Light 50 or better yet, an M2 mounted on an armored Humvee, this should be adequate. A hardcore “White Hunter, Black Heart” type of outdoorsman may try his luck with a fine double rifle in .600 Nitro Express or an 8-bore, but I personally would rather have more than two shots to prevent me from becoming cholesterol in the arteries of a giant carnivore. The 30mm chain gun on an Apache attack helicopter will work best in this situation, but a LAW rocket or RPG should be effective as well. Raptors, on the other hand, can generally be dispatched with 12 gauge slugs at close range, or any other caliber suitable for taking bear-sized game.

Vampires and Werewolves

Destroying creatures of the night can be an expensive proposition, as any firearm projectile used must be composed of silver. Pawn shop owners who handload and cast their own bullets have a distinct advantage here. Projectiles merely plated with silver, such as buckshot pellets and pistol bullets, may prove to be a cost-effective alternative to solid silver projectiles, but it is unknown if this method can deliver enough silver nitrate into the monster to result in a fatal wound. Any pistol cartridge capable of reaching the FBI’s minimum acceptable penetration depth should be sufficient for defeating vampires, but werewolves, by virtue of their generally larger size and greater muscle mass, may require a centerfire rifle cartridge to reliably pierce their thick hides and return them to Hell. Winchester Silvertips are NOT effective, as their tips are not actually made of silver. And leave the fancy sword-play to Blade, unless you don’t mind being exsanguinated.

Alien Invasion

According to the conventional wisdom of Hollywood, the military forces of the world will be easily swept aside by the technologically superior weapons of an invading humanoid alien species. The aliens themselves, however, generally appear to be vulnerable to small arms fire. Depending on just how fragile their bodies are, any military-style rifle chambered in .223, 7.62x39 or .308 should be satisfactory for waging an interplanetary insurgency and ensuring that only humans get to deplete the earth’s natural resources. If, however, the aliens turn out to be allergic to water or some other liquid that is harmless to us, then Super Soakers and water balloons will be the armament of choice. In any case, a 12 gauge shotgun loaded with 00 buck is preferable to a baseball bat or kitchen knives.

Some might say that this kind of thinking is paranoid. But being prepared for these kinds of situations, in addition to being prudent, is just plain fun. Besides, just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean that someone…or something… isn’t out to get you. I have to go now…I can hear my dogs barking, so I need to go put on my body armor and find my night vision goggles. Lock and load, baby!

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Old 12-21-2008, 12:26   #44
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my mainline stash includes:
mini 30
2 russian tula made sks
3 1911 .45's. full size & officers model

the good thing about this set is only 2 caliber's to stockpile ammo for

also am working up a sporty version 1917 eddystone enfield chambered in 30-06 ackland improved. the good thing about this chambered round is stock 30-06 can be fired also. i plan on a good illuminated long range scope. this will be for hunting & "reach way out & touch someone".

after that will be variuos .22's & shotguns, along with the m-1 carbine.
still looking for a good 10/22 & a combat/defense shotgun to add to the mix.
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Old 12-21-2008, 23:03   #45
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I'm not sure why everyone seems to think that the 10/22 is such a good SHTF gun, but I've got one so, I must be ready, right?

deadeyedick,
That was a nice read. Your literary skills are well developed as well as your finely tuned sense of paranoia. Thank you for that article. Apparently I need a few more guns.
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Old 12-22-2008, 08:18   #46
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Originally Posted by Punisher338 View Post
I am going to go with:
Mossy 500 riot gun
My HK G3 clone with several hundred rounds of .308
Any of my Ruger mod 77's in either .308 or .338 Win mag
My Para SSP .45
and my trusty 10/22
That's very strange, othere than the Para, (mines a Colt) and the .338, I own all the guns you mentioned. I wonder what your G3 clone is, an FA 91? I can't imagine carring that sucker far, not with any ammo or anything else, but it would handle the whole stopping question, and mine works like a charm with all the surplus mags. Think I would have to stick with the .223 for walking much tho.
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Old 12-22-2008, 08:33   #47
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"I'm not sure why everyone seems to think that the 10/22 is such a good SHTF gun, but I've got one so, I must be ready, right?"

I don't think any rimfire is a real good choice. After being here, (P.U.) awhile, I started a test. My bench is in a shed and has a closable window in front of it. The bags and spotter just stay there, and since last spring so has part of a milk carton of Federal .22 bulk. Last time any was dug out this fall about 3 of every 5 would fire. I'm thinking about putting the next batch in a bag so only temp and sunlight will be factors, and maybe sticking some at the back so they won't get light on them. Also saved some steel shot that got wet while wading last year, the primers fired but the powder was gone in almost all of them, if I was planning much walking with ammo there would need to be one of those little sealer gadgets involved and I would do boxes not lots.
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Old 12-22-2008, 08:41   #48
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Originally Posted by p35bhp55 View Post
That's very strange, othere than the Para, (mines a Colt) and the .338, I own all the guns you mentioned. I wonder what your G3 clone is, an FA 91? I can't imagine carring that sucker far, not with any ammo or anything else, but it would handle the whole stopping question, and mine works like a charm with all the surplus mags. Think I would have to stick with the .223 for walking much tho.
Yea mine is a FA91 and it eats anything I stick in it. As far as weight it aint to bad but then again I was a Machine Gunner in the Corps so I am kinda used to humpin a heavy hunk of iron.And hopefully I would be riding my ATV or in my Bronco instead of walking.

Last edited by Punisher338; 12-22-2008 at 08:43.
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Old 12-22-2008, 09:46   #49
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Here's my choices for options in shtf...

Rifles:
M4
Mini-14
FAL
AK

Shotguns:
Mossberg 590

Handguns:
Glocks
1911's

Other models will meet the criteria for good options but these are the ones I choose for my needs.
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Old 12-22-2008, 11:35   #50
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Personally, I believe that the list should start with an AR15 and move to the shot gun, then the 22 dead last. I wouldn't even consider a Mini14/30. Basically, the best gun is the one that you can find replacement parts for. An AR15 tops that list with Rem and Moss shotguns being solids. Bolt guns are pretty much bullet proof, excepting the firing pin and spring, but are slow performers.

My choices would be as follows:
Colt 16" lightweight with Aimpoint M4S (currently my go to gun.)
Vepr AK
Armalite AR10 16" with IOR 3x21 cqt
M1 Garand for punching holes through things and stopping **** dead in it's tracks
Remington 1187 with 00 or slugs

As a sidearm, I'd go with my CZ SP01 or my Springfield XD 45 tactical

All of these choices would be subject to change, depending on whether I'm moving or in one spot.

Last edited by Balzac72; 12-22-2008 at 16:40.
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