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80K views 157 replies 77 participants last post by  Back Again (Drache Teufel) 
#1 ·
I have read discussions like this for years. Now that I am a member I'm starting this one to try and objectively resolve this matter. Please no bashing lets just deal with the facts. I like both weapons, and have extensively shot then both. I personally favor the Mini 14.

Let's try and stick to these factors when considering these two rifles.
(Also lets try and stick with the most current AR's & Mini's .223 5.56)


1) Cost
2) Functionality
3) Practicality
4) Performance
5) Reliability
6) Accessories
7) Factory vs. Modded


Here is my Ruger Mini 14 (196 series):

http://www.perfectunion.com/vb/showthread.php?t=50777
 
#137 ·
Full agreement. The AR was not a battle rifle as fielded in the '60's, and the 7.62x51 AR10 had already failed against the M14 during the selection process. We should never have dropped the M14, but rather could have considered an updated Carbine for the services like the Air Force that really did need a clerks and cooks rifle.

That's why my set of "only ones" is an M1A, M1911A1, and KaBar. If I only have one rifle, pistol, and knife, that's them.

All the best,
Grumpy
 
#138 ·
The 5.56 is not and never will be a battle rifle cartridge, its an intermediate caliber round. I don't think it was a scam really but it had to due with money. I believe lot of people in the DOD were greased and paid lots of money to field the M16 and I think it was rushed out to our troops way to fast. That being said, with all the advancements in the platform it has come a long way since the Vietnam war and I like it as light carbine.

Edited to add
I could be wrong but I believe President Clinton had a bunch, and I mean a bunch of our M14's that were in storage ground up into scrap metal.
 
#140 · (Edited)
Hi Jeff F;

Yes, as a light carbine I agree that the AR is decent. That's why I built the one in the pic. That, and to maintain logistics with everyone else out there who already has one! Of course I like my minis too - and the one in the pic shows that its not really any bigger, etc than the AR. Just handles a little differently. Of course as a light use military carbine of the era (early '60's) I still think something like a Mini would have been even better, particularly paired with the M14 (second pic).

Sadly you're right about the M14's, and the dope from hope did indeed wreck a bunch of our country's vital military gear (including a bunch of perfectly good M60 tanks that ended up on the ocean floor :mad:). However, there obviously are still some left, given that they're showing up in Afghanistan, etc. and I believe Smith Enterprises had the contract to do refurbs. Not sure if anyone is making new receivers for DOD, but there would be an irony if they were. Sort of like when the Air Force sold off a scatload of iron bombs (un-needed in the nuclear age, according to the whiz kids) then had to buy 'em back paying top dollar from the scrap yards so they'd have something for Viet Nam.

All the best,
Grumpy
 
#142 ·
Yea grumpy, I understand what your saying and I would agree except I do not believe the Mini 14 was even in prototype when the AR15/M16 came into the market and by the time the Mini did come to market they were so invested in the M16 there was no way they could drop it in favor of another platform. When did the first mini 14 come out? 1974 I think and we would of been just wrapping it up over in Vietnam.
 
#143 ·
Absolutely. The Mini wasn't a twinkle in the eye of Bill Ruger that early to the best of my knowledge. I do seem to recall that one of the early designers on the Mini was from the M14 program though, so what I was really thinking in terms of would be a true descendant of the M14, shrunk for a varmint cartridge to keep the AP's happy.

As it is, the AR family is interesting if somewhat maintenance intensive. One big advantage I've found is that shooters that can't stomach the least bit of recoil can generally handle an AR, while the same is not true of a Mini. Ran into a guy a couple years back at the gun club who was new to guns, with a $1600 AR with at least another $500 worth of garbage hanging on it. No recoil known to humanity, but it was actually heavier than an M1A! Let him try a box of M193 out of my Mini GB 14/20 and he a. couldn't hit anything, b. was intimidated by the recoil and noise, and c. was convinced it was a more powerful rifle than his AR!

Sorry for the runon posts, but its a lazy Sunday with no ammo to burn up at the range. :(

All the best,
Grumpy
 
#144 ·
If I wanted something to reach out and touch I would have an M14 or M1 Garand. I qualified Expert with my M16 in the Army, and I can tell you honestly that my "skinny barrel" Mini will hit anything at any range I could hit with the M16 consistently. Now want to flip that switch to Auto and burn up some rounds. All of them wobble when they get hot, ever shoot the M60. I have my Mini for fun and survival. Well used to be fun till ammo got insane. Show a body at 150 yards and the Mini will hit it. Hold center of mass and the mini works. Just my two cents. Oh yea, way more reliable when you don't get a chance to clean it than the M16.

Reb
 
#145 ·
All of them wobble when they get hot, ever shoot the M60.
Yeah, I used to drive the other people on the line crazy. We would have our target. I would set my sights. Shoot a 2 or 3 shot burst, hit the target and walk off the line so somebody else could shoot. I figured once hit I didn't need to waste more ammo on that target.

Just twixt you me and the neighbors dog I preferred the M2. I still used 2 and 3 shot bursts, still hit my target, it was just farther away. As the armorer for the company I loved the Deuce. I rarely if ever had to do anything to it other than make sure it was clean when we came in from the field. One or both of the 60's was almost always needing some kind of tender loving care. My John Wayne/Rambo types loved it but they weren't very nice to them.
 
#146 ·
I owned a Mini, I own an M&P15.

Reliability? Same.
Maintenance? Same.
Ammo usage? Same.
Parts expense? M&P winner.
Accuracy? M&P winner.
Accessories? M&P winner.

Cost? Mini14 = $785 in the PRK.
S&W M&P15 w/Match trigger = $1260 in the PRK.

Cost wise, the Mini is the clear winner, BUT, You get what you pay for.

Mini14 = The only new rifle I got rid of due to accuracy issues.
 
#147 ·
AR15 Much Better Than The Mini 14

Soss, where does one start? I have NOT read all the other answers here, sooss if I repeat stuff....opps. No point in going through the reasons why...again.

Will leave it at this. How many nations have adopted the Mini 14? How many made? How many nations have adopted the M16? How many MILLIONS made?

You can't even get an extractor or firing pin from Ruger. They want YOU to RETURN the firearm to them for fitting. If you buy a genuine Colt AR15 you will not be sorry.
 
#148 ·
Lets face it, the AR is to the rifle world as a PC has been to computers. You will always have people who prefer Mac's over a PC just as the opposite.
The AR has the clear advantage due to little to no proprietary ownership to design and open to the market to elevate the design.As stated Ruger holds all the cards,which can be a big drawback as far as popularity and evolution beyond it's original design.

The mini lacks in three areas depending on model,
the front sight is a big issue for me.An M1/M14 dovetail would be 100% improvement,which I have already done to mine.

gas system-piston may be parallel to barrel but as it slams the gas block and receiver it induces non linear forces.Even with a heavy barrel the whip still exists.
The AR is in line and does not introduce the same forces.
The mag type/ release-tilt. If standard AR mags were used or at least if Ruger had their own version,it would be much better.

The bottom line will always come down to use.If accuracy below 1.5MOA is important then get an AR . My Mini has a purpose beyond target shooting,but uses a limited round and why I have a rifle made to go beyond my mini's capabilities. Even an AR has it's limits.
 
#149 ·
AR15 are great for sand bagging and bench rest shooting.

We know they are battle proven and we know their limitations.

They are real good up to about 200 rounds, then you have to add CLP to keep the AR15 running.

The new mini 14's are not as accurate, but we are talking 1/2 MOA difference and every AR fan boy talks about their AR like it is a free floated barrel, With M4 feed rams, hammer forged barrel, and the whole 9 yards and not the cheap knock off kit they built on a budget...

The MINI 14 is a juggernaut of a riffle for the money and value you gt out of it.
 
#152 ·
AR15 are great for sand bagging and bench rest shooting.

We know they are battle proven and we know their limitations.

They are real good up to about 200 rounds, then you have to add CLP to keep the AR15 running.

The new mini 14's are not as accurate, but we are talking 1/2 MOA difference and every AR fan boy talks about their AR like it is a free floated barrel, With M4 feed rams, hammer forged barrel, and the whole 9 yards and not the cheap knock off kit they built on a budget...

The MINI 14 is a juggernaut of a riffle for the money and value you gt out of it.
New mini's are not as accurate ? wtf the old ones arn't WTH you smoking ?
 
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