Rifles Misc All rifles not covered elsewhere!

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Old 08-31-2010, 08:01   #51
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Yikes. I can' t believe I am wading into this muddy old pond, but here goes. I have many years of actual front line experience with both the Mini 14 and the AR, in law enforcement and the military. There is no way that the AR will ever take the place of the Mini 14 for me, due to experience and common sense. Seventeen years of daily use with the Mini 14 tells me that this thing is practically unstoppable, and when it does malf due to magazine or ammo issues, it is quick and easy to get it back up and running, due to the open architecture of the receiver. It is very hard to break a Mini 14, and I defy anyone to prove otherwise. The Mini 14 is accurate enough to hit a torso size target at 200 yards right out of the box. It is not, and never will be a target rifle, so let's get that out of the way. Yes it can be upgraded, but for most of us in the real world, it works as is.
The AR suffers from what I call the "Three Fatal Flaws". They are: #1, a totally enclosed receiver. #2, the locking extension of the barrel. #3, FRAGILITY. The AR requires an enclosed receiver because if dirt gets into it, it stops working. Please, don't waste my time or yours arguing this point. Many good American GIs are dead from this unarguable fact, and even the most ardent AR fans will tell you the same. For crying out loud, it has a button on the side, to make it work when it gets dirty. There is no excuse for this in a rifle that has to work under the very worst scenarios imaginable. This enclosed receiver makes clearing a FTE jam almost impossible under normal range conditions, let alone when the lead is coming at you. The barrel extension is a nightmare, period. EVERY GI will tell you that cleaning this piece of s**t is almost impossible on a nice sunny day. I was a military armorer for a couple of years, and it requires special tools, and a lot of patience to fully clean this area of the weapon. Again, there is no excuse for this. If a foreign object gets in there at the wrong time, you are humped, period. This is the weakest weapon design I have ever seen. The Ruger 10-22 is more rugged than the AR. I have personally seen one separated into two pieces due to a bad landing during fire and maneuver exercises. Luckily, it was a training situation. The buffer tube extension is a disaster just waiting to happen. The AR is one of the best semi auto target rifles in the world, there is no question of that, and it is very reliable under ideal conditions. We still have the AR in military service because of money invested, along with budget and logistic concerns, not because it is the best tool for the job. The Mini 14 is, in it's current iteration, also not suited for full on military service, but I would take it every time over the AR if I were called into combat. We can argue about this until the 12th planet returns, and probably will. If you are a die hard fan of the AR, then go with whatever blows your skirt up. I don't really care what happens at Gunsite. I have watched both of these weapons perform in the REAL world, and any truly objective analysis of this comparison will ALWAYS fall in favor of the Mini 14. I have seen many copies of this weapon with over a million rounds downrange at the California Correctional Training Center, that have never had a parts failure (stainless GB). If you are a combat veteran who has never had an issue with your M-16 or M4, then you have been very lucky. Quite a few others were not, and are no longer around to argue the point. Your mileage may vary.

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Old 08-31-2010, 10:09   #52
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I am one of the lucky ones that survived the "jam-o-matic" farce in 'nam. You cannot run fast enough to give me another one. Luckily I traded mine for 2 Grease Guns that were perfect and fired a .45 round, did not jam, did not need forced assist, did not require a 10lb. cleaning kit and could be dropped in the mud and still cycle. The AR 15 is a monument to inept, incompontent planning made by somebody's third off cousin.
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Old 08-31-2010, 11:49   #53
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Glad to hear you did, TxCoyote.

It's instructive how some of the technology developed during WWII to be produced on the cheap turned out to be so effective and reliable. In addition to the Grease Gun, the PPSh41 and Sten come to mind.
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Old 08-31-2010, 18:24   #54
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Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe these are the most talked about pros and cons with the ar15 and the mini.

Feel free to add to this list, as I am not very experienced in this information and would appreciate any help as it will help me and possibly others use it to make purchase decisions.

AR15 Pros:

Accuracy
Availability of magazines, accessories, etc, etc
low recoil
durable
reliable magazines
cost effective magazines
lightweight
relatively easy to take down

AR15 Cons:

Needs to be very clean to operate properly
Get's dirty and jams rather quickly with even the cleanest of ammo
prone to jamming in dirty environments/dirty ammo
requires more maintenance in dirty environments than other rifles
Magazine feed lip damage from storing ammo for too long in say an SHTF stash.



Mini 14 Pros

Extremely simple and therefore reliable
almost never jams due to it's very simplistic yet trustworthy design
is fairly accurate, even more so with modifications
Compact
Durable
works well in virtually any weather condition
can sustain extended usage without cleaning or lubrication
Lightweight compared to other rifles in it's class, or compared to it's big brother the M14
Easy to field strip and reassemble
low recoil


Mini 14 Cons

Not as accurate as some would like
Recoil is worse compared to the AR15
in comparison to the AR15 accessory market, the mini-14 loses by a very big margin
jamming problem with aftermarket magazines (magazine jam not action)
expensive factory magazines (only reliable ones as well)
not as lightweight as some would like


Not as much of a problem with the mini but with Ruger is ignoring the gun community's recommendations/opinions compared to other companies like Kel-Tec which directly ties in with short comings in the mini.
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Old 09-01-2010, 11:02   #55
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You covered the pros and cons very well, my biggest complaint about Ruger is their lack of responding to the public that supports them. Ruger could corner the market if their response to the public was more forthcoming. Personally, I would immediately buy a mini in 308 caliber, with a heavy barrel, precision gas block, quality peep sights and real wood stock.
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Old 09-01-2010, 13:44   #56
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I understand this is a Mini 14 based web site.
But to keep reading how unreliable an AR15 is ridiculous. This isn't 1963.
I've used an AR15 in Law Enforcement for a while too.
Go through a carbine class. Many rifles fail, 99% of the time it's lower end AR's. You know what else fails? Mini 14's. Don't believe that? Ask Pat Rogers.

The forward assist was added to the M16 to assist chambering rounds due to carbon, gunk build up after several hundred rounds were fired.
The horror stories of unreliability came from the early years due to the government changing powders in the round. Too fast and would burn the barrels out causing tumbling rounds and too dirty. That was the governments call, not Stoners. That has been corrected.

Any half decent rifle should hit a torso sized target at 200 yards. My AR15 will hit an eye at 200 yards.

Cleaning? How could it be simpler? Push a take down pin, pull the charging handle and BCG. Run a cleaning rod from the chamber end instead of the muzzle end on a Mini 14. Use a chamber brush. Not exactly high tech. I occasionally use a q-tip. Pull a cotter pin to remove the firing pin and bolt. Clean with a brush and solvent. Re assemble.

If needed, you can easily replace the firing pin, extractor, or complete bolt. No need to send it back to the manufacturer for hand fitting like a mini 14.

All the take down was designed to be done using the tip of a bullet.

Biggest down side is an AR bolt does need lube. Now if needed, you can spray it in through the ejection port while the weapon is together in a pinch.

The AR is not nearly as picky when it comes to mags. The Mini 14 had better have a perfect mag from about 1 of three companies to function correctly. And hope that nothing get bent out of spec or it won't feed.

Put 1000 rounds down a quality AR and a Mini 14 in one session. Statistics show the AR will run, the Mini 14 will not stand up.

Sights. I don't even need to address that. Optics mounts, lights, rails, any kind of combat accessory?

Combine all that with Rugers price. I don't see how they sell any.
The sad part is, Ruger could have improved it. Brought it up to date. The changes they have made are minimal.
And just because Ruger named it "Mini 14" doesn't make it such. That's just marketing.

The mini is what is was designed to be. A ranch/truck rifle.
The AR has been around for over 40 years. It's not perfect but I've yet to see a rifle that was. But to continue to call it unreliable, especially comparing it to a mini 14, is just bad information.
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Old 09-01-2010, 14:16   #57
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Wow, way to wake up a 4 year old thread!

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Old 09-01-2010, 14:25   #58
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Originally Posted by shadow1 View Post
I understand this is a Mini 14 based web site.
But to keep reading how unreliable an AR15 is ridiculous. This isn't 1963.
I've used an AR15 in Law Enforcement for a while too.
Go through a carbine class. Many rifles fail, 99% of the time it's lower end AR's. You know what else fails? Mini 14's. Don't believe that? Ask Pat Rogers.
if the Stoner bolt design was as reliable as you say, there would be no reason for M14's being taken out of storage and shipped to the boys in the middle east. These are not just snipers who need to hit targets farther than the 5.56 will reach, these are jamming issues as well.

Originally Posted by shadow1 View Post
The forward assist was added to the M16 to assist chambering rounds due to carbon, gunk build up after several hundred rounds were fired.
The horror stories of unreliability came from the early years due to the government changing powders in the round. Too fast and would burn the barrels out causing tumbling rounds and too dirty. That was the governments call, not Stoners. That has been corrected.
Personally, I find the forward assist a rather useless feature. if the bolt won't go into battery because of an obstruction the obvious thing NOT to do is to force it to do so possibly making it harder to reverse once the fire fight is over.

I don't see how it has been corrected, the M4, M4A1, and CQBR as well as any other m16/m4/ar15 variants still have a forward assist.

Originally Posted by shadow1 View Post
Any half decent rifle should hit a torso sized target at 200 yards. My AR15 will hit an eye at 200 yards.

Cleaning? How could it be simpler? Push a take down pin, pull the charging handle and BCG. Run a cleaning rod from the chamber end instead of the muzzle end on a Mini 14. Use a chamber brush. Not exactly high tech. I occasionally use a q-tip. Pull a cotter pin to remove the firing pin and bolt. Clean with a brush and solvent. Re assemble.
Wait..I thought you were defending the AR15, not the mini...

[QUOTE=shadow1;619684]
If needed, you can easily replace the firing pin, extractor, or complete bolt. No need to send it back to the manufacturer for hand fitting like a mini 14.

I don't know about you but I've NEVER heard of a mini-14 firing pin, extractor or bolt failing under even heavy usage. So having easily changeable parts on a rifle that is by any measure definitely less reliable than the mini-14 is a handy feature to have. Nor do you have to have it sent back to replace such parts. If you look at the take down process, the bolt and firing pin are easily removed by hand.

Originally Posted by shadow1 View Post
All the take down was designed to be done using the tip of a bullet.
All the take down of the mini-14 was designed to be done using your hands.

See for yourself at 1:15 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93XmX2IIjQQ

(the instructor in the video uses a punch, you can easily do the same with your finger just by pulling on the trigger guard)

Originally Posted by shadow1 View Post
Biggest down side is an AR bolt does need lube. Now if needed, you can spray it in through the ejection port while the weapon is together in a pinch.
Still a downside to the mini-14 which some people say can run dry for much longer periods than the mini-14. May not be good for it but it still functions perfectly.

Originally Posted by shadow1 View Post
The AR is not nearly as picky when it comes to mags. The Mini 14 had better have a perfect mag from about 1 of three companies to function correctly. And hope that nothing get bent out of spec or it won't feed.
This problem lies with the design of the after market magazines and not with the feeding mechanism in the mini-14

Originally Posted by shadow1 View Post
Put 1000 rounds down a quality AR and a Mini 14 in one session. Statistics show the AR will run, the Mini 14 will not stand up.
I'd love a copy of these statistics. Care to share?

Originally Posted by shadow1 View Post
Sights. I don't even need to address that. Optics mounts, lights, rails, any kind of combat accessory?
a point I addressed in my post, point goes to the AR15, or rather the picatinny rail mostly which is avaliable for the mini.

Originally Posted by shadow1 View Post
Combine all that with Rugers price. I don't see how they sell any.
The sad part is, Ruger could have improved it. Brought it up to date. The changes they have made are minimal.
And just because Ruger named it "Mini 14" doesn't make it such. That's just marketing.
I can see perfectly how they sell any. You'll find a basic mini for 600 or less while a low end AR15 (those ones prone to jamming, remember?) will run you 800+. Going into a gun store with 800 bucks, you could either walk out with an ar15 and that's it or a mini with maybe some accessories, some ammo, and maybe a few targets.

Despite me bashing Ruger for not listening to the gun community at large they have listened to somethings that are said. For one the recommendation of a thicker barrel, improved accuracy with the target models and etc.

Actually it does since the mini-14 is a shrunken down version of that famous reliable M14 and M1A bolt design.

M1A Bolt



Mini-14 Bolt



Originally Posted by shadow1 View Post
The mini is what is was designed to be. A ranch/truck rifle.
The AR has been around for over 40 years. It's not perfect but I've yet to see a rifle that was. But to continue to call it unreliable, especially comparing it to a mini 14, is just bad information.
Oh don't let the name ranch rifle deceive you and after all, both are in the same caliber which is why they are so often compared. Ruger may call it a varmint gun and a ranch gun but people use it far more for home defense than anything else.

The mini-14 has been around for 43 years counting it's conception in 1967. The bolt design dates back 78 years to 1932. Any way you stretch it the stoner bolt design is still the new kid on the block compared to the mini-14. But that isn't proof alone. The proof is in the numbers. The reason this forum is a mini-14 based forum is not because it's cheaper. What's 600 compared to 800 dollars when speaking about a quality rifle? And by the way no one here has said the ar15 is anything like a luger that jams as soon as a microscopic piece of dust works it's way into the action. We're saying comparatively the mini-14 is built tougher, simpler and works through the mud, rain, dust and dirt for as long as you need it.
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Old 09-01-2010, 15:48   #59
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The "forward assist issue was resolved by using decent ammunition. Any ammunition after several hundred rounds is going to leave a lot of residue. Even the Mini 14. Remember, the AR15 was designed for battle, not plinking. This also being why the easy ability to change the bolts, firing pins, ect... It's a battle rifle, meaning it sees a lot of rounds, and a lot of abuse. Not shooting an occasional Coyote.

Never heard of ANY bolt failures with a Mini 14? That's interesting. News to me. I was told the bolt had to go back to the factory because the bolt and firing pin is hand fitted. I guess if you are a gun smith you could pull this off. Not necessary in an AR15.

And if I recall, the statement was made that "Get's dirty and jams rather quickly with even the cleanest of ammo" Complely false. If it does, there is another issue.

I don't know where you shop, but I can get you a real nice AR for less than $800. And you can readily build your own.

I'm not a fan of the DI system but it does work. Piston builds are coming out. The trade off is extra weight. I'll pull up some information later from Pat Rogers regarding failures of the Mini 14 in his carbine classes.

And the magazine is a vital part of the feeding mechanism unless you are shooting single shots. A nub in the mag well that fits or doesn't fit a hole in the mag. And for quick loading, there's no room for error.

Again, just because it's a rolling block design doesn't put in it the same class as a Gerrand.

Last edited by shadow1; 09-01-2010 at 16:42.
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Old 09-01-2010, 16:48   #60
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"I'll pull up some information later from Pat Rogers regarding failures of the Mini 14 in his carbine classes"
Unfortunatley because I am a member of the same L.E.O. forum that he is, I cannot post his quotes from that web site.
So, if anyone would like to see his and other experts in tactics and weapons, Google is your friend.

Buy the Mini 14. I had one. I might have another at a decent price. But trying to portray the AR 15 as unreliable to bolster the Mini 14 is rediculous. The only thing they have in common is they will both fiire .223.
Then again, the AR15 will also fire 5.56.
One is a battle rifle, one is a plinker. Can the Mini be used for self defense? Sure. Most any gun can.
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Old 09-01-2010, 19:02   #61
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Originally Posted by shadow1 View Post
The "forward assist issue was resolved by using decent ammunition. Any ammunition after several hundred rounds is going to leave a lot of residue. Even the Mini 14. Remember, the AR15 was designed for battle, not plinking. This also being why the easy ability to change the bolts, firing pins, ect... It's a battle rifle, meaning it sees a lot of rounds, and a lot of abuse. Not shooting an occasional Coyote.
That still doesn't justify the need to jam the bolt into battery if it would do so normally. If there is an obstruction then forcing the bolt forward isn't exactly the smartest thing to do.

Originally Posted by shadow1 View Post
Never heard of ANY bolt failures with a Mini 14? That's interesting. News to me. I was told the bolt had to go back to the factory because the bolt and firing pin is hand fitted. I guess if you are a gun smith you could pull this off. Not necessary in an AR15.
I have heard of bolt failures with the mini, it was always either a fault of the ammo or severe abuse by either a previous owner or the current owner.


Originally Posted by shadow1 View Post
And if I recall, the statement was made that "Get's dirty and jams rather quickly with even the cleanest of ammo" Complely false. If it does, there is another issue.
Then what would this other issue be? How about some proof since you're attacking my argument.

Originally Posted by shadow1 View Post
I don't know where you shop, but I can get you a real nice AR for less than $800. And you can readily build your own.
Are you even reading my posts?

Ruger Mini-14 All Weather Ranch Rifle, 5805, black/stainless, 5.56 - $697 at the most, a regular wood stock blued ranch rifle even less.

The AR15 LOSES on the price front since even the most basic models are 200 more than a ranch rifle.

Originally Posted by shadow1 View Post
And the magazine is a vital part of the feeding mechanism unless you are shooting single shots. A nub in the mag well that fits or doesn't fit a hole in the mag. And for quick loading, there's no room for error.
The magazine is a separate part unless it's a permanently fixed magazine. If we want to nit pick on that then I'll add another failure to the AR15 and choose the worst possible POS magazines to add another ding against it's name.

Originally Posted by shadow1 View Post
Again, just because it's a rolling block design doesn't put in it the same class as a Gerrand.
I'm sure there are quite a few people besides me that would beg to differ.
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Old 09-01-2010, 19:59   #62
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Originally Posted by OrenG View Post
That still doesn't justify the need to jam the bolt into battery if it would do so normally. If there is an obstruction then forcing the bolt forward isn't exactly the smartest thing to do.
Obstruction yes, fouling, no. And I have yet to need the forward assist with any AR 15 I've ever used. But then I had an M14 in the Military. AR's came with L.E. work



I have heard of bolt failures with the mini, it was always either a fault of the ammo or severe abuse by either a previous owner or the current owner.
What exactly would you consider "severe abuse" that would not equally apply to an AR15?

And lets not forget, all the vast knowledge of the "failings" of the AR15 mostly occurred with the M16. But then as an Armorer, you already knew that.
Full auto combined with bad powder and too fast of a round. An M16 will dump a 30 round mag in about 3 seconds. Lots of build up will and can occur. Lets not forget the impact heat will have on the operating system. How many rounds you think a scared, young G.I. is putting through there in a fire fight?

But it's still used today all around the world by apparently people too ignorant to know better.


Then what would this other issue be? How about some proof since you're attacking my argument.
Other issue generally involve the use of cheap parts. Parts are not parts. Use Mil Spec MPI tested BCG's, in spec uppers, lowers, decent MPI tested barrels. The AR's that have the biggest issue using sub standard parts.



Are you even reading my posts?

Ruger Mini-14 All Weather Ranch Rifle, 5805, black/stainless, 5.56 - $697 at the most, a regular wood stock blued ranch rifle even less.

The AR15 LOSES on the price front since even the most basic models are 200 more than a ranch rifle.
One of the best deals going now is Spikes M4 LE. As close to Mil Spec as it gets without some of the documentation. $750 Far from bottom of the list.
CMMG $599
Olympic Arms A1 $599 at Atlantic Arms
Delton rifle kits $465 + $120 stripped lower receiver Total $585
And more.




The magazine is a separate part unless it's a permanently fixed magazine. If we want to nit pick on that then I'll add another failure to the AR15 and choose the worst possible POS magazines to add another ding against it's name.

Without the mag it's a single shot. Do you choose to believe the magazine has no effect on the feeding ability?
And exactly what do you find wrong with the AR15 magazine? Compared to a Mini 14 magazine? I have a ton of G.I. mags that I replaced followers with anti tilt. I've had 2 30 round mags that over a long period of time, swelled and would not drop free. I also have Magpul P-mags that have been flawless.
How many mags will run reliably in a mini 14? Factory and PMI




I'm sure there are quite a few people besides me that would beg to differ.
The same people that will defend the Mini no matter what you find out. It just can't be true. Even the experts who have years of training and combat experience have no idea what they are talking about.

And lets not forget, most of the failings attributed to the AR15 actually occurred with the M16 having full auto capability. An M16 can dump a 30 round mag in about 3 seconds. Combine that with too fast of a round and dirty powder, you will get gunk in the chamber, which is where the forward assist originated.
Also the burned out barrels, again from the 60's. How much heat do you think is generated by that many rounds that quickly. Heat stresses metal.
But as an Armorer, you were already aware of that fact.
And yet the M16 and AR15 are used all around the world by Military Forces. They just don't know the truth I suppose.
Now if you want to debate the round compared to a .308 thats another story.

Last edited by shadow1; 09-01-2010 at 20:35.
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Old 09-02-2010, 14:34   #63
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You need to throw out the price argument. So what if the AR is $200 more? That's peanuts over the lifetime of a rifle. The cost of a rifle is a biasing element in and of itself. The Mini owner believes he was smarter because he got an equal rifle for less money. The AR owner believes he was smarter because he spent more to get a better platform.

Mini owners claim these threads are useless since the rifles are so different. Really? Tell Ruger that. The latest Ruger Mini Tactical come with a 20-round mag, flash suppressor and is all black.

I am a new Mini owner. I like the way it handles, but it was not designed with a hi-cap magazine in mind. They work fine, but seem to be in an odd position for me as a lefty. My feeling is that the Mini would be more dependable in bad conditions. But until I get more trigger time, I'm withholding judgement on which is better.
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Old 09-04-2010, 15:17   #64
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I have already thrown my two cents into this blender, but here is an interesting bit from Sierra Arms Corp, from their Mini 14 Gallery. BTW they work on ARs as well.
"The recurring trend you'll see here is that the barrels of our Mini conversions are all very short- legal minimum in fact. I will never make the promise that your mini can shoot MOA accuracy. It cannot. I submit that the mini 14's problem with accuracy is NOT the barrel size or length. The issue affecting accuracy is that it is a RUGER MINI 14! Take it for what it is, and build on that. The mini is a battle rifle. It is an offensive weapon best suited for extreme duty- more so than even the AR platform (dare I say). By reducing the rifle's weight and size we make it handle faster. By reducing the barrel's length- we reduce the duration of the pressure stroke through the op system. This in turn, reduces the motion of the rifle by slowing down the "recoil" force you may feel. Lastly, enhancing the user interface with a light, crisp trigger and enhanced sighting system. Myself and others have carried SAC's mini conversions to victory at several 3 gun and USPSA rifle matches. It has been suggested by one very satisfied client that we change the name of our rifle to "Awesome-14."
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Old 09-05-2010, 11:52   #65
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Originally Posted by TxCoyote View Post
You covered the pros and cons very well, my biggest complaint about Ruger is their lack of responding to the public that supports them. Ruger could corner the market if their response to the public was more forthcoming. Personally, I would immediately buy a mini in 308 caliber, with a heavy barrel, precision gas block, quality peep sights and real wood stock.
Yeah, and they could call it the M1a / M-14
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Old 09-05-2010, 20:42   #66
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Originally Posted by Gem1950 View Post
Yeah, and they could call it the M1a / M-14
Actually it was called the Ruger XGI.









Go here for more pictures:Ruger XGI
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Old 09-06-2010, 07:47   #67
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^^^ Yes, I'd forgotten about this. Obviously another misconception in design. No wonder it was discontinued - not enough heft etc. for the .308

It probably would have flown if it was made in some high performance intermediate caliber (between a .223 & .308) like exists today. That and a proper barrel!

With the right caliber, it could be (or rather, could have been) a very handy rifle for long range surpression fire and semi auto sniper work in a squad full of .223 carbines. Sort of like what the M1a is used for today, only lighter.

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Old 09-06-2010, 18:10   #68
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Never seen that one. How rare is it?
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Old 09-07-2010, 05:23   #69
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I like them both, and thats why I own both (DPMS Panther Classic, S&W M&P15, and Ruger Mini-14 Tactical).
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Old 09-09-2010, 13:47   #70
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Wuteva

Like a lot of people I've had both. For a civilian protection gun a mini is just fine. No you can't get all the bells and whistles and make it look super awesome but ...

It's reliable even when dirty. The AR not so much.

There is no bore line / sight line differential. For snap shots in close range you aim and shoot a mini with a AR you have to raise your sights 1 1/2 " to be on.

The gun shoulders more quickly than an AR.

For an average guy the Mini will do everything more simply than an AR will such as sending a round home i.e. hitting a tini forward assist button or simply smacking a charging handle forward.

Or better yet just buy a MIA and know your sending some true energy down range.
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Old 09-09-2010, 14:00   #71
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Originally Posted by NJCOP View Post
Like a lot of people I've had both. For a civilian protection gun a mini is just fine. No you can't get all the bells and whistles and make it look super awesome but ...
I beg to differ.



Originally Posted by NJCOP View Post

It's reliable even when dirty. The AR not so much.

There is no bore line / sight line differential. For snap shots in close range you aim and shoot a mini with a AR you have to raise your sights 1 1/2 " to be on.

The gun shoulders more quickly than an AR.

For an average guy the Mini will do everything more simply than an AR will such as sending a round home i.e. hitting a tini forward assist button or simply smacking a charging handle forward.

Or better yet just buy a MIA and know your sending some true energy down range.
The rest I agree with.

Truly both rifles have a large number of fans. But I think the mini still wins not only because it's been around for about the same time, but because it's far more reliable. I think the sale of mini's would drop if they were somehow worse as a home defense weapon compared to something like an AR.
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Old 09-16-2010, 21:50   #72
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I like both and I think both can be improved on. The FN SCAR is looking real good to me so far. The main con on it is price.

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Old 10-09-2010, 15:59   #73
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I have both Mini 14's and AR15's, I like both equally for different reasons. Mags are a nonissue anymore for Mini's as qualty mags are readily available and somewhat reasonably priced now. Barrel thickness is the real difference between the Mini 14 and the AR15 in my opinion. From left to right: Smith & Wesson MP15, Rock River Arms heavy barrel upper and field stripped NRA Mini 14.

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Old 10-09-2010, 16:32   #74
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Old 10-09-2010, 19:54   #75
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Originally Posted by TJohn View Post
I have both Mini 14's and AR15's, I like both equally for different reasons. Mags are a nonissue anymore for Mini's as qualty mags are readily available and somewhat reasonably priced now. Barrel thickness is the real difference between the Mini 14 and the AR15 in my opinion. From left to right: Smith & Wesson MP15, Rock River Arms heavy barrel upper and field stripped NRA Mini 14.
Both rifles (AR and Mini) are good to go. But I sure like that HBAR in the middle. That barrel can get hot and still stick 'em in the X ring.
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