DeadReckoning if you don't mine me asking, what brand are these $15.00 mags? The other Question you asked, man I don't know, I wish I had the answer. for one reason, just before the AWB 1994 these companies got wind of the band comeing an they started produceing them full speed running 24 hours A day an the Quality control went down. I never had any luck with all the other brands, except PMI an ProMag , PMI was hard to insert because they were A little wider(thicker) than the Factory mags, an the promags was ok but there was allways A few that didn't fit tight. But this was back in the days of the band, I haven't bought any since the band is gone, maybe there better made now like ProMag. this magazine problem an the thin barrel are downside of the mini 14 that I here peoples talked over the years, if ruger would have just put A little heavier barrel on the mini they would have picked up A lot more sales, I know boys that got disgusted an went over to the AR family. but I still think the mini is A fine rifle, I like my mini 14 an would buy another one if I had the extra money. it's something about the mini that you don't won't to let go.
I buy 30 round blued magazines for $15.00 a piece new. They do not malfunction anymore than any other mags. Why are so many people having a hard time finding cheap reliable mags for the Mini 14?
My 30rd aftermarket is perfect. I bought a 20 rdr from Cheaper than Dirt (cheap) that is just about useless. My brother bought one on the same order and it works fine. Aftermarket seems to be hit or miss IMO.
Politics aside, there just has to be some practical reasons why no country in the world (other than maybe Bahama or some podunk place like that) issues the Mini-14 to their troops.
I sure like my Minis, but they are not battle rifles.
Politics aside, there just has to be some practical reasons why no country in the world (other than maybe Bahama or some podunk place like that) issues the Mini-14 to their troops.
I sure like my Minis, but they are not battle rifles.
An ar-15 is no more a battle rifle than a mini 14. Did you read my post at all? Get the facts
I own 1 mini 14, 2 AR's and 3 AK's. I like them all. AR is definetly more accurate and consistant with accuracy. I ended up putting about $1000 into the mini for accuracy of the AR. I could have bought an AR with better accuracy out of the box. As for mags, no way the worst mags for a mini are anything like AdventureLand mags. You ever find a Western mag that was reliable. I'm sure some have but I havn't. Reliable mags for a mini are still more expensive than AR mags. The most reliable of all is the AK. I can shoot just about any ammo(7.62x39) with any mag made for it. Doesn't matter if it's dirty or dry. AR won't function unless it's lubed good. Mini has looser tolerances and aside from mags is very reliable. AR and AK are easy to clean. AR is a modular system. I can change uppers whenever I want with ease. Bottom line is there is no perfect combat rifle. These were all designed for a specific function. As far as accuracy of any of these. Everyone wants to compare accuracy of a combat rifle to a deer rifle. These rifles were designed for shorter distances and to hit something the size of a man, not a 1" x at 300 yards.
Hmmm...USGI issue...does that count? Btw, (I`ve got an ASI mini) Carl @ ASI is a friggin moron.
The M16 is not and never will be a battle rifle. The same goes for the Mini-14.
The M16 is an ASSAULT rifle, not a battle rifle. If you don't know the difference, I'll tell you. Many battle rifles are a lot like an assault rifle in that most, not all, have a large capacity box magazine, some are select fire, most are not, but the biggest difference is that a battle rifle is chambered for a full power cartridge like 7.62 NATO or .30-06. Typical battle rifles would be FAL's, G3's, M14's, and the grand daddy of them all the M1 Garand. An assault rifle is chambered for an intermediate power cartridge like 5.56 NATO or 7.62X39. Typical assault rifles are the M16 family and the AK-47 family. A Mini-14 or an AR-15, despite what the sheeple think, are not and never have been assault rifles.
Ruger did make an assault rifle version of the Mini called the AC556, but I'm not sure if they still make it. I hope this helps those of you who are confused about this.
My turn to beat the dead horse...
Over the decades I've owned several Mini's (including the original 180 when it first came out) and AR's (everything from stock SP-1's to a custom XM-177E2). Bottom line for me based on personal experience with them both is that I don't trust the AR platform; too many problems experienced (yes, I know there are reliable AR's out there but I never owned one of them). I don't like how the AR handles/points but that's purely subjective. The Mini-14 isn't perfect and I certainly wouldn't issue it to frontline troops but my biggest complaints (relative inaccuracy and unreliable mags) have been resolved easily & inexpensively. Accuracy: bbl cut to 16.5" & added a flash hider. Mags: ProMag makes excellent steel & polymer hicap mags for the Mini-14 (Natchez sells the Polymers for less than $11 each). The Mini-14 handles/points better & faster for me than anything else I've owned/tried and have always been 100% reliable w/good mags. I trust it to always go "bang" when I need it to. IMHO the AR & Mini are like comparing a Ferrari & VW: both will get you where you want to go but if the Ferrari breaks you're likely to need more than the tool kit under the front seat to fix it whereas the VW (while not as nice or fancy) isn't as likely to need the tool kit in the first place...
Tomac
PS- The AR troubleshooting forum at AR15.COM currently shows 2,879 topics with 20,345 replies for just the past 2 weeks.
I think that in a shtf situation like Katrina you might be better off with an AR since that's what the police carry, even though it's an "evil black rifle". If you put on a blue windbreaker with "security" emblazoned on it they might be less likely to shoot on sight. I think if you were carrying an AK they'd shoot first and ask questions later.
This whole debate is a bull**** product of Bush 41's import ban (an executive order that 43 could have easily rescinded but hasn't). Why aren't we debating the merits of the AR vs. AUG, SCAR, Sig, HK etc? Because those guns cost thousands of dollars. We are talking about one gun whose design will be 50 y.o. in a couple of years, and another that although it is 35 y.o. the system was developed 75 years ago. The only other viable candidate (AK) has it's birth year in it's name, also a whopping 60 y.o. I know that the 1911 is 95, but I guess old John B. was just a little sharper than John G or Eugene.
On a related note, everyone should run out and rent a Korean movie called "Tae Guk Gi" about the Korean war. Best war movie ever. There is some hand to hand combat where the S. Koreans are using the big M1s like clubs. Try that with an AR.
On a related note, everyone should run out and rent a Korean movie called "Tae Guk Gi" about the Korean war. Best war movie ever. There is some hand to hand combat where the S. Koreans are using the big M1s like clubs. Try that with an AR.
That is a great movie!
BTW...you can also do a butt-stroke with a Mini and not have to worry about breaking your rifle. Do that with an AR, especially one with the flimsy collapsible stock, and you're going to break it. Besides alot of people, myself included, just don't like the AR. It wouldn't matter if the AR was tougher and used a piston gas system, I still wouldn't like it. It has to do with feel. That is a very subjective thing. Some will like the feel of an AR better, and others prefer the feel of the Mini. I prefer the Mini's feel and I think it looks better. The AR just looks and feels too much like a toy to me.
This issue of AR vs. Mini-14 can never be resolved. Everyone has a favorite. We can't all agree on everything, and it would be a pretty boring world if we did. I will say this though, I still respect the AR as a weapon that is capable of serving its owner well. I only expect the same respect for my choice of a Mini-14 from those of you who prefer the AR. Thank you.
This issue of AR vs. Mini-14 can never be resolved. Everyone has a favorite. We can't all agree on everything, and it would be a pretty boring world if we did. I will say this though, I still respect the AR as a weapon that is capable of serving its owner well. I only expect the same respect for my choice of a Mini-14 from those of you who prefer the AR. Thank you.
God invented handguns so you have to have butt stroke-Personally I prefer a really big knife if they are that close. That's why I have dozens in my stash. I used to have a knife/gun shop, with my addiction I had to keep one of every 'good' knife that came in. That sure cut down on the profit margin, fortunately there's no PM in the gun business.
BTW...you can also do a butt-stroke with a Mini and not have to worry about breaking your rifle. Do that with an AR, especially one with the flimsy collapsible stock, and you're going to break it. Besides alot of people, myself included, just don't like the AR. It wouldn't matter if the AR was tougher and used a piston gas system, I still wouldn't like it. It has to do with feel. That is a very subjective thing. Some will like the feel of an AR better, and others prefer the feel of the Mini. I prefer the Mini's feel and I think it looks better. The AR just looks and feels too much like a toy to me.
This issue of AR vs. Mini-14 can never be resolved. Everyone has a favorite. We can't all agree on everything, and it would be a pretty boring world if we did. I will say this though, I still respect the AR as a weapon that is capable of serving its owner well. I only expect the same respect for my choice of a Mini-14 from those of you who prefer the AR. Thank you.
If you are to the point of butt stroking then you are SOL anyway. Your ammo is gone and you lost your side arm, bayonet and fighting knife?
Seriously when has hand to hand happened in the last thirty years? This is what pistols are for. Primary runs dry, either go to cover and draw your side arm, or your knife if its that close.
Yes I know there are one or two instances, but honestly the adjustable stock of the AR is better for the other 99.9% of fighting situations given the thickness of body armor affecting length of pull of service rifles. Why else are the Canadians going to M4 style stocks on their full (20") length C7's?
I was just making a point that you could do a buttstroke with the Mini and not break it. I wasn't advocating you go around buttstroking bad guys. Geez, don't get all bent out of shape!!
Did you even read the rest of my post. I respect the AR, and I respect your decision to use one. Please have the same respect for me and my choice to use a Mini-14. Thank you.
BTW...Just for the record, I hate knives. I will not use a knife as a weapon if I can help it.
The Mini is the better design for a battle rifle imo. However, the AR is most likely better than the Mini in their present forms.
If the Mini had underwent all the mods the AR has, it would probably be better than the Ar overall. Some say the Mini lacks durability cause of cast parts?
IMHO the AR is a better infantry weapon as modern logistics can provide whatever maintenance/replacements necessary. However, I can't count on having a platoon of friendlies to cover my butt if I need to clear a jam or the resources of a modern industrialized nation waiting to hand me a new rifle if mine breaks. In a SHTF scenario (ala NO) the Mini makes the better *survival* weapon.
Tomac
Hmmm...USGI issue...does that count? Btw, (I`ve got an ASI mini) Carl @ ASI is a friggin moron.
Here is a little knowledge for all you die hard ar-15 m16 fans.
Cleaning and breaking down an ar-15 is just as easy as an mini 14 if you are at home or somewhere where you don’t have to rush. If you are in a hostile environment taking down an ar-15 is not something to look forward to for these two reasons.
1) The hand guard is tight and has to be stood up vertically and requires considerable force to remove.
2) There are many more very small moving parts in an ar-15.
The mini 14 is very simple to breakdown and the smallest part you have to deal with is the gas bushing, which is roughly the size of a penny.
When I was in the Army we had two qualify with M16A2. We were given 40 rounds and had to shoot 40 pop up silhouette targets 2 at a time. I qualified as a sharpshooter instead of a expert because I had a jam during my qualification. As a result of the malfunction I had to eject 1 round that I could never get back and missed two targets due to the time it took to perform S.P.O.R.T.S. on the rifle.
Everyone knows the factory Ar-15 shoots tighter groups than the factory Mini 14 because of the thin crap barrel Ruger uses. If you spend about $450.00 on a Mini 14 and spend another $350.00 on a really good bull barrel you have spent 800.00. If you spend another $100.00 on a nice pistol grip synthetic stock you have spent $900.00. If you spend another $100.00 on a recoil buffer and other minor accessories you have spent $1000.00 which is the average going price for a new Ar-15 M4. So you see if you modify the Mini-14 to equal the price of the Ar-15 you have a weapon that shoot as good as if not better than Ar-15. Not to mention it will be more reliable do to its loose action and self cleaning bolt. Imagine if Ruger sold there rifles in the configuration that I just mentioned from the start. Don't you think it would have received more attention in the Law Enforcement and Military circles? I kind of think people like Ar-15 because they are the rifles everyone sees when they watch movies and play video games, ect... If the Mini 14 had been manufactured in the way I mentioned before I think that the ar-15 would have had a run for there money when being chosen by different governments as a service rifle. Especial since it took so much convincing on the part of the US Government to change from the proven Garand style rifles to the ar-15 type rifles.
Just a side note the AR-15 is the only service weapon in the world that comes standard with a forward assist. What’s that saying?
I think the Ar-15 is a great weapon and would serve law enforcement agency’s better than the mini 14 since they aren’t getting their rifles as dirty. But when it comes to the battle field I don’t want to be stuck with a rifle that has such a tight chamber a small amount of dirt will render it useless. Not to mention the gas that recycled into firing chamber that gets it dirty fast.
The Ak47 has a similar style action as the Mini 14 and variations of that weapon have been around since 1947, and is still the most produced service rifle in the world. Sometimes newer doesn’t mean better. Sometimes the cooler looking or more menacing looking weapon doesn’t mean more deadly.
Basically I prefer a Modified Mini-14 for the same price as a factory Ar-15 because it will shoot the same if not better. Once you have eliminated accuracy problems from the equation it comes down to reliability, which almost everyone agrees the Mini -14 is superior in that aspect for the reasons I have stated above. There is no modification for the AR-15 that I know of that will increase the reliablity of the action.
Also who ever as trouble finding Mini-14 accessories isn’t looking very hard. The only accessory I can’t find for the Mini 14 that the Ar-15 has is a forward vertical grip. And yes you can get a telescoping stock for the Mini 14 you can find a link to it in this forum, all you need is the adapter.
Just because the military uses the ar-15 doesn’t mean there are more accessories. If you have been in the military you know the only accessories you get with your M16 is a bayonet, mags, and ammo.
the mini imho is generally more reliable than the ar rifles. ar's can shoot .5 moa when tweaked; tough choice between the two; however if you want
the best 5.56 rifle it is a sig rifle about 1moa when using swiss ruag gp90 ammo; ak inspired design that is re-engineered by the swiss for accuracy and reliability-ever see their torture test) mags you can clip together; night sights; winter trigger guard; factory bipod-although not very good imho; two position gas system; etc
anybody rifleman whos has had the oppurtunity to spend some time with either will pick the ar hands down. the mini is robust sure but the accuracy makes it as valuable as a handgun. with that being said i would rather have a handgun then a mini. currently i own a very modified mini but only cause i dumped my ar's for the cali ban. sure with the modifications it is very accurate but weapons maintenence sucks due to the whole break down and no cleaning from the chamber. ok then dont make it accurate make it a good goto shtf weapon you say,wrong. the ar in a short barrel is way more egornomic easier and faster to shoot lighter to carry, and far more options for accessories. here in cali give me a bolt for accuracy and a kel tec su-16 for firepower. any body interested in a super accurate asi mini call me i need the money for a 223 bolt gun.
1) I've spent lots of time w/both and have owned numerous versions of both. I'll still take the Mini over the AR in a heartbeat.
2) My Minis are slightly modified (bbl cut back, FH added, trigger job), didn't cost much and give me all the accuracy I want out of them (3" at 100yds w/ghostring sights using Q3131).
3) Cleaning from the chamber is easy if you use a boresnake.
4) Sorry, I find the Mini faster to shoulder/aim/shoot than the AR (YMMV) and while slightly more ergonomic the AR suffers from numerous design-inherent defects that are impossible or expensive to remedy (the troubleshooting forum at AR15.COM currently has 2,950 topics w/20,841 replies ). Speed of mag changes? You're already starting w/30rds, how many times do you intend to miss??? I've yet to hear or read of any incident where an LEO or civilian won or lost a confrontation due to rifle mag change speed.
5) Accessories? So what, how many do you need for a basic go-to weapon? I have a tritium front sight, ghostring rear & flash hider. I can easily add a taclight or red-dot/optic if desired.
6) SU-16? Thx, but I don't trust Kel-Tec's long-term durability, QC nor the wisdom of polymer receivers on rifles (their warranty won't do you much good if the rifle goes "click" when you really, *really* need it to go "bang"). The Mini has a 30yr track record of ruggedness and reliability and will eat ammo that many AR's will choke on (the Winchester 45gr Varmint load & new Wolf M-193 come to mind).
Just my $.02 worth...
Tomac
Originally Posted by rocresq
anybody rifleman whos has had the oppurtunity to spend some time with either will pick the ar hands down. the mini is robust sure but the accuracy makes it as valuable as a handgun. with that being said i would rather have a handgun then a mini. currently i own a very modified mini but only cause i dumped my ar's for the cali ban. sure with the modifications it is very accurate but weapons maintenence sucks due to the whole break down and no cleaning from the chamber. ok then dont make it accurate make it a good goto shtf weapon you say,wrong. the ar in a short barrel is way more egornomic easier and faster to shoot lighter to carry, and far more options for accessories. here in cali give me a bolt for accuracy and a kel tec su-16 for firepower. any body interested in a super accurate asi mini call me i need the money for a 223 bolt gun.
about 1moa when using swiss ruag gp90 ammo; ak inspired design that is re-engineered by the swiss for accuracy and reliability-ever see their torture test) mags you can clip together; night sights; winter trigger guard; factory bipod-although not very good imho; two position gas system; etc
). Speed of mag changes? You're already starting w/30rds, how many times do you intend to miss??? I've yet to hear or read of any incident where an LEO or civilian won or lost a confrontation due to rifle mag change speed. 
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