along with a pistol, 8 lbs of water, rations, and enough ammo to make the weapons worth having? At 10 shots to the lb for 12 ga ammo, the 8 lb shotgun can easilly be seen as not worth the effort/hassle of carrying both it and a real fighting weapon. So why bother with "3-gun" competition, hmm? Indeed, why bother to own a shotgun at all? it's not nearly as "handy" for around the house defense as a pistol, it's impossible for ccw, and it lacks the sustained firepower, range and penetration of the rifle. At ranges inside a home, 5 yds and less, the shot pattern is only 2-4" wide, so you still have to aim it like it was a rifle, and it's not at all easy to use while opening doors, holding a light, a kid, a phone, while looking under a bed or behind clothes hanging in a closet, etc.
You're right dude, military and police units have been clearing houses with shotguns for decades now because its sooooooo useless. Also, seeing as you're so adamant about using the word "survivalist", a shotgun is great for hunting. But I guess all the deer, coyotes, rabbits, racoons, dove, duck, geese, pheasant, quail, squirresl, and turkeys that get harvested each year don't realise that they're being shot at with something so inferior as a shotgun, otherwise why would they die? Could it be that a shotgun is effective? No, that's probably not the case.
The shotgun is a crucial survival tool for defense or hunting, to think otherwise is foolish.
You have to select components for your load bearing equipment that maximize space on your vest and all access to your equipment. Which is the greatest strength of Molle gear, it is absolutely customizable to the user and mission.
In my 18 years in the military I carried my fighting load in a vest-
Ammo- 6-10 AR mags, 3 pistol mags
Carbine on sling across front of body
Pistol on leg platform with spare mags (if I have to dump the vest I still have a weapon).
Water in 2 3L camelbak bladders.
Break down MRE's, enough for 1-2 days (4 meals).
In my subsistence load (pack)-
I carry 4 more rifle mags, 150 rds for the 9mm
3 days worth of food- Mountain House or MRE's
Poncho, liner and 550 cord
Water purification tablets and collapsible container.
Mess kit, firestarting gear
There is a reason the shotgun isnt issued to every Marine. That being said Ive been issued the 1014 for combat and while I was never a big fan of buckshot, as almost everyone hit needed a second shot(I keep my 590 loaded with federal flight control as I think they would solve the issued buckshots failings) slugs never left me wanting. I trained on both the 590 and the 1014 in Security Forces and now use a 590a1 as my go to weapon of choice for bugging out, SHTF, zombies etc. Id get the M4 but its way above my paygrade.
Do I think a shotgun is the best weapon for every situation, for everyone? No. But im confident that with my current level of training on my 590, my area of operation (very thick woodlands/swamps), and my experience with shotguns it suits me just fine.
I also carry a mossberg 500 about 25 miles a week during squirrel and rabbit season. Sept-Feb
along with a pistol, 8 lbs of water, rations, and enough ammo to make the weapons worth having? At 10 shots to the lb for 12 ga ammo, the 8 lb shotgun can easilly be seen as not worth the effort/hassle of carrying both it and a real fighting weapon. So why bother with "3-gun" competition, hmm? Indeed, why bother to own a shotgun at all? it's not nearly as "handy" for around the house defense as a pistol, it's impossible for ccw, and it lacks the sustained firepower, range and penetration of the rifle. At ranges inside a home, 5 yds and less, the shot pattern is only 2-4" wide, so you still have to aim it like it was a rifle, and it's not at all easy to use while opening doors, holding a light, a kid, a phone, while looking under a bed or behind clothes hanging in a closet, etc.
Snuff may have just solved our "tap" problem. I took one look at that picture and imagined tap trying to solder an airsoft shotty to an airsoft M4 and passing out cold from the fumes...
Shotguns are all also great deterents, every grown man and woman universally recognizes the sound of going to battery with a pump gun.
Originally Posted by usmcronin
If I have reason to use a shotgun they wont hear anything but the boom
both true, but i'm siding with usmcronin on this one. On a side note, one of my favorite quotes from a gun magazine was taken from an article on home defence shotguns written by a police officer:
"Nothing will cause a criminals bowels to empty faster than the sound of a pump shotgun action being racked"
but still, if you're already in my house you get the "boom" instead
along with a pistol, 8 lbs of water, rations, and enough ammo to make the weapons worth having? At 10 shots to the lb for 12 ga ammo, the 8 lb shotgun can easilly be seen as not worth the effort/hassle of carrying both it and a real fighting weapon. So why bother with "3-gun" competition, hmm? Indeed, why bother to own a shotgun at all? it's not nearly as "handy" for around the house defense as a pistol, it's impossible for ccw, and it lacks the sustained firepower, range and penetration of the rifle. At ranges inside a home, 5 yds and less, the shot pattern is only 2-4" wide, so you still have to aim it like it was a rifle, and it's not at all easy to use while opening doors, holding a light, a kid, a phone, while looking under a bed or behind clothes hanging in a closet, etc.
The answer is clear, use an assault wheelbarrow. You should know that!
all of these rebuttals of your OP and the only thing you can say is that you think some corpsman carries too much ammo?
I think he's starting to peter out...
from what I've gathered talking to guys that have ACTUALLY been in combat, weather it was the Big number 2, Korea, Nam, or the sandbox.
there is no such animal as carrying "Too much" ammo... weather it be rifle, pistol, nades, whatevahs. same thing with there is no such thing as carrying "too much" water. if you can hump it-you hump it... the load will get lighter as you go along and use those 2 items.
from what I've gathered talking to guys that have ACTUALLY been in combat, weather it was the Big number 2, Korea, Nam, or the sandbox.
there is no such animal as carrying "Too much" ammo... weather it be rifle, pistol, nades, whatevahs. same thing with there is no such thing as carrying "too much" water. if you can hump it-you hump it... the load will get lighter as you go along and use those 2 items.
not everyone has an assault wheelbarrow to carry their stuff in I googled Gunkid and found a ton of "interesting" stuff on several weapons related forums.
I was not the regular FMF infantry corpsman, I was a SARC (Special Amphibious Reconnaissance Corpsman) which meant when I was not putting on bandaids I was a shooter, and as a combatant not protected by the Geneva Conventions as medical personnel like other military medics.
I've carried a lot more ammo than that, sometimes the best preventive medicine for my Marines was my ability to shoot better than the bad guy.
My aid bag was a separate deal from fighting or substistence loads so with the exception of the guy stuck with the SAW, I carried the most weight on any given mission.
For those that have never heard of SARC's, there are only 72 billets in the entire fleet for them, all assigned to Recon units- one part of our training was the 18D Special Operations Medical Sergeants Course, as part of a 72 week training pipeline beginning with Basic Recon Course and including such stops as jump school, combatant diver, among others. We were the elite of the fleet, beat only by the SEAL Corpsmen.
not everyone has an assault wheelbarrow to carry their stuff in
I was not the regular FMF infantry corpsman, I was a SARC (Special Amphibious Reconnaissance Corpsman) which meant when I was not putting on bandaids I was a shooter, and as a combatant not protected by the Geneva Conventions as medical personnel like other military medics.
I've carried a lot more ammo than that, sometimes the best preventive medicine for my Marines was my ability to shoot better than the bad guy.
My aid bag was a separate deal from fighting or substistence loads so with the exception of the guy stuck with the SAW, I carried the most weight on any given mission.
that would have either put you attached to a Marine Recon unit or Navy Seal team. yes?
so you got to patch up badasses - which makes you pretty badass in my book.
Gentlemen, we should all just realize that all of our Military, LEO, or any other experience we have is no way capable of measuring up to the illustriousness of Tap.
I for one am deeply honored to have one of his caliber in this forum.
Note: This was typed between bouts of hysterical laughter. (This is the joke forum - isn't it)
I googled Gunkid and found a ton of "interesting" stuff on several weapons related forums.
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