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Old 05-10-2011, 06:46   #1
tap
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how CARRY 12ga, autorifle, 30-40 lbs of gear?

along with a pistol, 8 lbs of water, rations, and enough ammo to make the weapons worth having? At 10 shots to the lb for 12 ga ammo, the 8 lb shotgun can easilly be seen as not worth the effort/hassle of carrying both it and a real fighting weapon. So why bother with "3-gun" competition, hmm? Indeed, why bother to own a shotgun at all? it's not nearly as "handy" for around the house defense as a pistol, it's impossible for ccw, and it lacks the sustained firepower, range and penetration of the rifle. At ranges inside a home, 5 yds and less, the shot pattern is only 2-4" wide, so you still have to aim it like it was a rifle, and it's not at all easy to use while opening doors, holding a light, a kid, a phone, while looking under a bed or behind clothes hanging in a closet, etc.
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Old 05-10-2011, 09:15   #2
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You're right dude, military and police units have been clearing houses with shotguns for decades now because its sooooooo useless. Also, seeing as you're so adamant about using the word "survivalist", a shotgun is great for hunting. But I guess all the deer, coyotes, rabbits, racoons, dove, duck, geese, pheasant, quail, squirresl, and turkeys that get harvested each year don't realise that they're being shot at with something so inferior as a shotgun, otherwise why would they die? Could it be that a shotgun is effective? No, that's probably not the case.
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Old 05-10-2011, 10:47   #3
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well, of course -
you owned by people with 5.56 in COD if you try to run and gun with a shotty.

everyone knows that.

here Tap, - have a hot pocket and go clean your room.
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Old 05-10-2011, 13:07   #4
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The shotgun is a crucial survival tool for defense or hunting, to think otherwise is foolish.

You have to select components for your load bearing equipment that maximize space on your vest and all access to your equipment. Which is the greatest strength of Molle gear, it is absolutely customizable to the user and mission.

In my 18 years in the military I carried my fighting load in a vest-
Ammo- 6-10 AR mags, 3 pistol mags
Carbine on sling across front of body
Pistol on leg platform with spare mags (if I have to dump the vest I still have a weapon).
Water in 2 3L camelbak bladders.
Break down MRE's, enough for 1-2 days (4 meals).

In my subsistence load (pack)-
I carry 4 more rifle mags, 150 rds for the 9mm
3 days worth of food- Mountain House or MRE's
Poncho, liner and 550 cord
Water purification tablets and collapsible container.
Mess kit, firestarting gear
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Old 05-10-2011, 15:09   #5
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"Indeed, why bother to own a shotgun at all?"




Hmm... maybe because I enjoy duck hunting?



Of course there's this strange photo but I really didn't use a .223 on these ducks.
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Old 05-10-2011, 16:02   #6
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There is a reason the shotgun isnt issued to every Marine. That being said Ive been issued the 1014 for combat and while I was never a big fan of buckshot, as almost everyone hit needed a second shot(I keep my 590 loaded with federal flight control as I think they would solve the issued buckshots failings) slugs never left me wanting. I trained on both the 590 and the 1014 in Security Forces and now use a 590a1 as my go to weapon of choice for bugging out, SHTF, zombies etc. Id get the M4 but its way above my paygrade.

Do I think a shotgun is the best weapon for every situation, for everyone? No. But im confident that with my current level of training on my 590, my area of operation (very thick woodlands/swamps), and my experience with shotguns it suits me just fine.

I also carry a mossberg 500 about 25 miles a week during squirrel and rabbit season. Sept-Feb
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Old 05-10-2011, 17:35   #7
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best of both worlds...

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Old 05-10-2011, 19:20   #8
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Originally Posted by tap View Post
along with a pistol, 8 lbs of water, rations, and enough ammo to make the weapons worth having? At 10 shots to the lb for 12 ga ammo, the 8 lb shotgun can easilly be seen as not worth the effort/hassle of carrying both it and a real fighting weapon. So why bother with "3-gun" competition, hmm? Indeed, why bother to own a shotgun at all? it's not nearly as "handy" for around the house defense as a pistol, it's impossible for ccw, and it lacks the sustained firepower, range and penetration of the rifle. At ranges inside a home, 5 yds and less, the shot pattern is only 2-4" wide, so you still have to aim it like it was a rifle, and it's not at all easy to use while opening doors, holding a light, a kid, a phone, while looking under a bed or behind clothes hanging in a closet, etc.
You are an Idiot!!!
Melvin(gunkid) is that you???
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Old 05-10-2011, 20:43   #9
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Originally Posted by Mr. Snuffalupagus View Post
best of both worlds...

Snuff may have just solved our "tap" problem. I took one look at that picture and imagined tap trying to solder an airsoft shotty to an airsoft M4 and passing out cold from the fumes...
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Old 05-11-2011, 04:28   #10
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Shotguns are all also great deterents, every grown man and woman universally recognizes the sound of going to battery with a pump gun.
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Old 05-11-2011, 04:45   #11
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Originally Posted by SemperFiguy View Post
Shotguns are all also great deterents, every grown man and woman universally recognizes the sound of going to battery with a pump gun.
If I have reason to use a shotgun they wont hear anything but the boom
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Old 05-11-2011, 10:16   #12
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seems like a good opportunity to test my signature
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Old 05-11-2011, 11:08   #13
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Originally Posted by SemperFiGuy View Post
Shotguns are all also great deterents, every grown man and woman universally recognizes the sound of going to battery with a pump gun.


Originally Posted by usmcronin View Post
If I have reason to use a shotgun they wont hear anything but the boom
both true, but i'm siding with usmcronin on this one. On a side note, one of my favorite quotes from a gun magazine was taken from an article on home defence shotguns written by a police officer:

"Nothing will cause a criminals bowels to empty faster than the sound of a pump shotgun action being racked"

but still, if you're already in my house you get the "boom" instead
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Old 05-11-2011, 11:36   #14
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Originally Posted by tap View Post
along with a pistol, 8 lbs of water, rations, and enough ammo to make the weapons worth having? At 10 shots to the lb for 12 ga ammo, the 8 lb shotgun can easilly be seen as not worth the effort/hassle of carrying both it and a real fighting weapon. So why bother with "3-gun" competition, hmm? Indeed, why bother to own a shotgun at all? it's not nearly as "handy" for around the house defense as a pistol, it's impossible for ccw, and it lacks the sustained firepower, range and penetration of the rifle. At ranges inside a home, 5 yds and less, the shot pattern is only 2-4" wide, so you still have to aim it like it was a rifle, and it's not at all easy to use while opening doors, holding a light, a kid, a phone, while looking under a bed or behind clothes hanging in a closet, etc.
The answer is clear, use an assault wheelbarrow. You should know that!
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Old 05-11-2011, 12:17   #15
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150 rds for the HG? Ridiculous,man! 4 lbs of stuff u Better pray u have zerouse for !
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Old 05-11-2011, 13:35   #16
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all of these rebuttals of your OP and the only thing you can say is that you think some corpsman carries too much ammo?
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Old 05-11-2011, 14:01   #17
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Originally Posted by bcavin View Post
all of these rebuttals of your OP and the only thing you can say is that you think some corpsman carries too much ammo?
I think he's starting to peter out...

from what I've gathered talking to guys that have ACTUALLY been in combat, weather it was the Big number 2, Korea, Nam, or the sandbox.
there is no such animal as carrying "Too much" ammo... weather it be rifle, pistol, nades, whatevahs. same thing with there is no such thing as carrying "too much" water. if you can hump it-you hump it... the load will get lighter as you go along and use those 2 items.
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Old 05-11-2011, 14:08   #18
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Originally Posted by Mr. Snuffalupagus View Post
I think he's starting to peter out...

from what I've gathered talking to guys that have ACTUALLY been in combat, weather it was the Big number 2, Korea, Nam, or the sandbox.
there is no such animal as carrying "Too much" ammo... weather it be rifle, pistol, nades, whatevahs. same thing with there is no such thing as carrying "too much" water. if you can hump it-you hump it... the load will get lighter as you go along and use those 2 items.
too much ammo = oxymoron
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Old 05-11-2011, 18:17   #19
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Tap/Gunkid/Melvin/ whoever you are today.........

not everyone has an assault wheelbarrow to carry their stuff in I googled Gunkid and found a ton of "interesting" stuff on several weapons related forums.

I was not the regular FMF infantry corpsman, I was a SARC (Special Amphibious Reconnaissance Corpsman) which meant when I was not putting on bandaids I was a shooter, and as a combatant not protected by the Geneva Conventions as medical personnel like other military medics.

I've carried a lot more ammo than that, sometimes the best preventive medicine for my Marines was my ability to shoot better than the bad guy.

My aid bag was a separate deal from fighting or substistence loads so with the exception of the guy stuck with the SAW, I carried the most weight on any given mission.

For those that have never heard of SARC's, there are only 72 billets in the entire fleet for them, all assigned to Recon units- one part of our training was the 18D Special Operations Medical Sergeants Course, as part of a 72 week training pipeline beginning with Basic Recon Course and including such stops as jump school, combatant diver, among others. We were the elite of the fleet, beat only by the SEAL Corpsmen.
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Old 05-11-2011, 18:24   #20
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Originally Posted by Doc_Shane View Post
Tap/Gunkid/Melvin/ whoever you are today.........

not everyone has an assault wheelbarrow to carry their stuff in

I was not the regular FMF infantry corpsman, I was a SARC (Special Amphibious Reconnaissance Corpsman) which meant when I was not putting on bandaids I was a shooter, and as a combatant not protected by the Geneva Conventions as medical personnel like other military medics.

I've carried a lot more ammo than that, sometimes the best preventive medicine for my Marines was my ability to shoot better than the bad guy.

My aid bag was a separate deal from fighting or substistence loads so with the exception of the guy stuck with the SAW, I carried the most weight on any given mission.
that would have either put you attached to a Marine Recon unit or Navy Seal team. yes?

so you got to patch up badasses - which makes you pretty badass in my book.
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Old 05-11-2011, 18:29   #21
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Originally Posted by Doc_Shane View Post
I've carried a lot more ammo than that, sometimes the best preventive medicine for my Marines was my ability to shoot better than the bad guy.
Good stuff doc. Semper Fi devil dolphin.
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Last edited by bcavin; 05-11-2011 at 19:14.
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Old 05-11-2011, 19:12   #22
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Originally Posted by Mr. Snuffalupagus View Post
that would have either put you attached to a Marine Recon unit or Navy Seal team. yes?

so you got to patch up badasses - which makes you pretty badass in my book.
I was Recon, Seals had their own Corpsmen.

I went to the same Recon schools the Marines did (technically I also hold Marine MOS 0326) and then on to the Special Ops medicine courses.
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Old 05-15-2011, 01:53   #23
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Gentlemen, we should all just realize that all of our Military, LEO, or any other experience we have is no way capable of measuring up to the illustriousness of Tap.
I for one am deeply honored to have one of his caliber in this forum.

Note: This was typed between bouts of hysterical laughter. (This is the joke forum - isn't it)
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Old 05-16-2011, 22:15   #24
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I'll be sure to hit him up if I need to make dice out of toilet paper and soap or light a cigarette off a wall outlet

Or the best way to clean a toilet before using it to wash clothes or take a bird bath.
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Old 05-17-2011, 06:28   #25
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A shotgun has its place, as does the handgun, rifle, knife, stick or other weapon. I believe tap has brought up some interesting points, good post.
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