What die for .223 and 5.56...same?

[Northrunner]

I've got both .223 and 5.56 brass. Can I use an RCBS .223 FL Die Set and load the 5.56 as though it was .223? What I mean is all the brass, both sizes mixed together, run it all at the same time at the same settings?
It'll all be shot through a new 580 series Mini-14.
Thanks...

[pbrktrt]

Exactly the same outside dimensions between the two. The difference I've seen is in the wall thickness in NATO brass. I'd say you are good to go.

[TOF]

Originally Posted by Northrunner I've got both .223 and 5.56 brass. Can I use an RCBS .223 FL Die Set and load the 5.56 as though it was .223? What I mean is all the brass, both sizes mixed together, run it all at the same time at the same settings? It'll all be shot through a new 580 series Mini-14. Thanks...

5.56 brass will probably be a few thousandths longer (unless trimmed) and slightly lower capacity.

If you are not crimping length will not matter but if you are it will. If using Lee FCD length will not be critical.

Different volume equals different pressure so take that into account and stay a bit down from max charge till you see how things work out.

I know the Mini is not a super accurate rifle but prefer to use same headstamp brass for a given load which I have worked up and catagorized for accuracy, POI etc. YMMV Following that practice I have been achieving 3/8 to 1/2 inch, 50 yard 3 shot groups with my month old Mini Tactical. I am too old to be walking to a 100 yard target very often so am doing my workups at 50. I will stretch it out later.

I started using Accurate 2230 with excellent results accuracy wise but had a lot of un burned particles which actualy caused some cases to stick.

I tested some more (Hotter) 2230 loads today along with some Varget loads.
2230 still caused cycle problems but Varget did not. There was a clearly defined difference in chamber residue between the two.

I am going shopping for more Varget and at least 1 pound of H335 to try.

[ManyFeathers]

Originally Posted by Northrunner I've got both .223 and 5.56 brass. Can I use an RCBS .223 FL Die Set and load the 5.56 as though it was .223? What I mean is all the brass, both sizes mixed together, run it all at the same time at the same settings? It'll all be shot through a new 580 series Mini-14. Thanks...

Your .223 die will work with 5.56 brass. After resizing, trim all your brass to the proper length!

A Mini 14 isn't well known for accuracy. Using mixed types of brass and especially different lengths, will most certainly degrade the accuracy of the rifle.

Using only brass with the same headstamp but from the same lots will give you greater consistency. If your rifle is not giving you the accuracy you want, yet all your brass is consistent, leaves you only the powder charge and bullet type as to causes of poor accuracy in most cases.

If you're reloading and shooting, just to be shooting, then it really doesn't matter much so long as you don't exceed maximum length on the case.

[Indyarms]

You can get totally anal as far as measuring brass... same headstamp for sure... then you can weigh each case and separate into same weight lots, that SHOULD have the same inside dimensions as they have the same amount of brass... how accurate do you want to get?
Shooting a mini... Just load em and go. You will never load brass that will be more accurate than your mini... its a moot point. If you had a 1/4 MOA target rifle, then YES... I would worry a lot about it... otherwise... just load same headstamp and shoot.

[storage_man]

There is some pretty significant capacity differences between Nato (Royal Ordinance) and standard PMC .223 brass. I measured a .7grn difference between the too of them (with RORG being .7grn less).

Reload wisely

[JBledsoe]

Originally Posted by storage_man There is some pretty significant capacity differences between Nato (Royal Ordinance) and standard PMC .223 brass. I measured a .7grn difference between the too of them (with RORG being .7grn less). Reload wisely

...a .7 grain difference?

.

[RAatw]

First I don't know what others consider "good" accuracy from a Mini 14 but I get twenty shot groups of less than 1.5" consistantly with both of mine at 100 yards. Five shots will go into 1" or less. The older of the 2 bought in 1999 has quite a bit of work on it the most accuracy improvement was an "Accustrut". The newer one bought in 2006 just has a trigger job, gas bushing of .041 and a flash hider. It is also a very good shooter. The only difference between 223 and 5.56 ammo is the pressure they are loaded to. Most mini's say 5.56 cal not 223. Therefore either one can be used. The few that are labeled .223 should only be shot with that ammo. Frank

[medalguy]

I've been reloading over 45 years. I've never seen a die marked "5.56mm", ever. Use the .223 dies, the brass is exactly the same. The difference is in the chamber dimensions of the two calibers. 5.56 is slightly more generous and slightly longer lead to accomodate varieties in military cartridges.

[barrels]

I totally agree with medalguy, I have never seen a die set for .556. I have water capacity measured both Remington( Rem/Winch/Federal/Nozler) .233 and Lake City(fci/prizzi/fioch/amer. eagle) .556 and they were exactly the same. A few of the loading books do have a specific page for .556 and some list the loads a little hotter. I did a lot of investigation and it boiled down to not much differences at the end. My bullet seating is slightly different and my chronograph based load is a few tenths different. Good Luck

[medalguy]

As I understand it, the difference between .223 and 5.56 is in the load and pressure. .223 is supposed to be loaded to a lower pressure than 5.56, so shooting 5.56 ammo in a .223 chamber stresses the chamber. On the other hand, shooting .223 in a 5.56 chamber is no problem at all. The cartridge dimensions are exactly the same, only the pressure differs.

[Slims00ls1z28]

Originally Posted by medalguy As I understand it, the difference between .223 and 5.56 is in the load and pressure. .223 is supposed to be loaded to a lower pressure than 5.56, so shooting 5.56 ammo in a .223 chamber stresses the chamber. On the other hand, shooting .223 in a 5.56 chamber is no problem at all. The cartridge dimensions are exactly the same, only the pressure differs.

True. As someone said earlier though the only difference is the thickness of 5.56 brass, true NATO in particular. It's thicker and holds less powder. When we load plinking (or ones we know we will bump fire) rounds we just grab handfuls of mixed brass and you can always spot the 5.56 when you load the charge as it will fill all the way to the top (we use varget mostly) or in some cases you can't even fit all the powder in the case depending on which manufacturer. Only problem with 5.56 brass I've seen is with the heavier Amax bullets that are too long to load with even middle of the road charge weights. We only load those in .223 brass because of that. Regular 55 gn FMJ's we just compress the 5.56 and roll with it if it reaches the top. Just bought some Benchmark to try out, load data shows more FPS with less charge going to see if the 5.56 will hold all of it with out having to compress it.

[AABEAR]

Most load manuels will tell you to load Mil bass reduce load by 10%

[rblain]

I have the same die set. After reading through the material that came with the die set, i found one section that said if you are going to use the rounds in a semi auto rifle, it should be tamper crimped. I know the rcbs FL die set cant do that.
Does anyone know if using this die set will make a difference. I also will be using these rounds in a miini 14.

Thanks guys

Rick

[medalguy]

Sure you can taper crimp with the RCBS set. That's the standard crimp. However if you want a factory type crimp, then you need to use the Lee FCD for that. The RCBS won't do that kind of crimp.

The thing to remember about shooting in a mini 14 or any gas rifle is to FL size every time you reload. Some people try to neck size only to increase brass life but that is specifically not recommended for gas guns. Bolt actions yes but not gas rifles.