Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-21-2011, 11:11   #1
Registered Member
Points: 880, Level: 15 Points: 880, Level: 15 Points: 880, Level: 15
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
Last Achievements
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3
What die for .223 and 5.56...same?

I've got both .223 and 5.56 brass. Can I use an RCBS .223 FL Die Set and load the 5.56 as though it was .223? What I mean is all the brass, both sizes mixed together, run it all at the same time at the same settings?
It'll all be shot through a new 580 series Mini-14.
Thanks...
Northrunner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2011, 13:35   #2
Full Member
Points: 7,277, Level: 56 Points: 7,277, Level: 56 Points: 7,277, Level: 56
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
Last Achievements
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: muskegon,mich
Posts: 822
Exactly the same outside dimensions between the two. The difference I've seen is in the wall thickness in NATO brass. I'd say you are good to go.
pbrktrt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2011, 16:19   #3
TOF
Full Member
Points: 2,021, Level: 27 Points: 2,021, Level: 27 Points: 2,021, Level: 27
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
Last Achievements
 
TOF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Northern Arizona
Posts: 128
Originally Posted by Northrunner View Post
I've got both .223 and 5.56 brass. Can I use an RCBS .223 FL Die Set and load the 5.56 as though it was .223? What I mean is all the brass, both sizes mixed together, run it all at the same time at the same settings?
It'll all be shot through a new 580 series Mini-14.
Thanks...
5.56 brass will probably be a few thousandths longer (unless trimmed) and slightly lower capacity.

If you are not crimping length will not matter but if you are it will. If using Lee FCD length will not be critical.

Different volume equals different pressure so take that into account and stay a bit down from max charge till you see how things work out.

I know the Mini is not a super accurate rifle but prefer to use same headstamp brass for a given load which I have worked up and catagorized for accuracy, POI etc. YMMV Following that practice I have been achieving 3/8 to 1/2 inch, 50 yard 3 shot groups with my month old Mini Tactical. I am too old to be walking to a 100 yard target very often so am doing my workups at 50. I will stretch it out later.

I started using Accurate 2230 with excellent results accuracy wise but had a lot of un burned particles which actualy caused some cases to stick.

I tested some more (Hotter) 2230 loads today along with some Varget loads.
2230 still caused cycle problems but Varget did not. There was a clearly defined difference in chamber residue between the two.

I am going shopping for more Varget and at least 1 pound of H335 to try.
TOF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2011, 05:47   #4
CantRe Member
Points: 3,331, Level: 35 Points: 3,331, Level: 35 Points: 3,331, Level: 35
Activity: 27.5% Activity: 27.5% Activity: 27.5%
Last Achievements
 
ManyFeathers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 568
Originally Posted by Northrunner View Post
I've got both .223 and 5.56 brass. Can I use an RCBS .223 FL Die Set and load the 5.56 as though it was .223? What I mean is all the brass, both sizes mixed together, run it all at the same time at the same settings?
It'll all be shot through a new 580 series Mini-14.
Thanks...
Your .223 die will work with 5.56 brass. After resizing, trim all your brass to the proper length!

A Mini 14 isn't well known for accuracy. Using mixed types of brass and especially different lengths, will most certainly degrade the accuracy of the rifle.

Using only brass with the same headstamp but from the same lots will give you greater consistency. If your rifle is not giving you the accuracy you want, yet all your brass is consistent, leaves you only the powder charge and bullet type as to causes of poor accuracy in most cases.

If you're reloading and shooting, just to be shooting, then it really doesn't matter much so long as you don't exceed maximum length on the case.
ManyFeathers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2011, 06:18   #5
Full Member
Points: 23,612, Level: 94 Points: 23,612, Level: 94 Points: 23,612, Level: 94
Activity: 3.0% Activity: 3.0% Activity: 3.0%
Last Achievements
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 769
You can get totally anal as far as measuring brass... same headstamp for sure... then you can weigh each case and separate into same weight lots, that SHOULD have the same inside dimensions as they have the same amount of brass... how accurate do you want to get?
Shooting a mini... Just load em and go. You will never load brass that will be more accurate than your mini... its a moot point. If you had a 1/4 MOA target rifle, then YES... I would worry a lot about it... otherwise... just load same headstamp and shoot.

Indyarms is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2011, 08:39   #6
Full Member
Points: 6,250, Level: 51 Points: 6,250, Level: 51 Points: 6,250, Level: 51
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
Last Achievements
 
storage_man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 66
There is some pretty significant capacity differences between Nato (Royal Ordinance) and standard PMC .223 brass. I measured a .7grn difference between the too of them (with RORG being .7grn less).

Reload wisely
storage_man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2011, 09:12   #7
Full Member
Points: 2,416, Level: 29 Points: 2,416, Level: 29 Points: 2,416, Level: 29
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
Last Achievements
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Caldwell, Idaho
Posts: 56
Originally Posted by storage_man View Post
There is some pretty significant capacity differences between Nato (Royal Ordinance) and standard PMC .223 brass. I measured a .7grn difference between the too of them (with RORG being .7grn less).

Reload wisely
...a .7 grain difference?

.
JBledsoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2011, 16:30   #8
Full Member
Points: 1,846, Level: 25 Points: 1,846, Level: 25 Points: 1,846, Level: 25
Activity: 3.3% Activity: 3.3% Activity: 3.3%
Last Achievements
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 63
First I don't know what others consider "good" accuracy from a Mini 14 but I get twenty shot groups of less than 1.5" consistantly with both of mine at 100 yards. Five shots will go into 1" or less. The older of the 2 bought in 1999 has quite a bit of work on it the most accuracy improvement was an "Accustrut". The newer one bought in 2006 just has a trigger job, gas bushing of .041 and a flash hider. It is also a very good shooter. The only difference between 223 and 5.56 ammo is the pressure they are loaded to. Most mini's say 5.56 cal not 223. Therefore either one can be used. The few that are labeled .223 should only be shot with that ammo. Frank
RAatw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2011, 15:24   #9
Full Member
Points: 3,777, Level: 38 Points: 3,777, Level: 38 Points: 3,777, Level: 38
Activity: 3.0% Activity: 3.0% Activity: 3.0%
Last Achievements
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 170
I've been reloading over 45 years. I've never seen a die marked "5.56mm", ever. Use the .223 dies, the brass is exactly the same. The difference is in the chamber dimensions of the two calibers. 5.56 is slightly more generous and slightly longer lead to accomodate varieties in military cartridges.
medalguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2011, 14:17   #10
Registered Member
Points: 682, Level: 13 Points: 682, Level: 13 Points: 682, Level: 13
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
Last Achievements
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1
I totally agree with medalguy, I have never seen a die set for .556. I have water capacity measured both Remington( Rem/Winch/Federal/Nozler) .233 and Lake City(fci/prizzi/fioch/amer. eagle) .556 and they were exactly the same. A few of the loading books do have a specific page for .556 and some list the loads a little hotter. I did a lot of investigation and it boiled down to not much differences at the end. My bullet seating is slightly different and my chronograph based load is a few tenths different. Good Luck
barrels is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2011, 17:26   #11
Full Member
Points: 3,777, Level: 38 Points: 3,777, Level: 38 Points: 3,777, Level: 38
Activity: 3.0% Activity: 3.0% Activity: 3.0%
Last Achievements
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 170
As I understand it, the difference between .223 and 5.56 is in the load and pressure. .223 is supposed to be loaded to a lower pressure than 5.56, so shooting 5.56 ammo in a .223 chamber stresses the chamber. On the other hand, shooting .223 in a 5.56 chamber is no problem at all. The cartridge dimensions are exactly the same, only the pressure differs.
medalguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2011, 17:34   #12
Full Member
Points: 1,860, Level: 25 Points: 1,860, Level: 25 Points: 1,860, Level: 25
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
Last Achievements
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 75
Originally Posted by medalguy View Post
As I understand it, the difference between .223 and 5.56 is in the load and pressure. .223 is supposed to be loaded to a lower pressure than 5.56, so shooting 5.56 ammo in a .223 chamber stresses the chamber. On the other hand, shooting .223 in a 5.56 chamber is no problem at all. The cartridge dimensions are exactly the same, only the pressure differs.
True. As someone said earlier though the only difference is the thickness of 5.56 brass, true NATO in particular. It's thicker and holds less powder. When we load plinking (or ones we know we will bump fire) rounds we just grab handfuls of mixed brass and you can always spot the 5.56 when you load the charge as it will fill all the way to the top (we use varget mostly) or in some cases you can't even fit all the powder in the case depending on which manufacturer. Only problem with 5.56 brass I've seen is with the heavier Amax bullets that are too long to load with even middle of the road charge weights. We only load those in .223 brass because of that. Regular 55 gn FMJ's we just compress the 5.56 and roll with it if it reaches the top. Just bought some Benchmark to try out, load data shows more FPS with less charge going to see if the 5.56 will hold all of it with out having to compress it.
Slims00ls1z28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2011, 13:16   #13
Full Member
Points: 4,561, Level: 43 Points: 4,561, Level: 43 Points: 4,561, Level: 43
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
Last Achievements
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Princeton IN
Posts: 450
Most load manuels will tell you to load Mil bass reduce load by 10%
AABEAR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2012, 18:20   #14
Registered Member
Points: 801, Level: 15 Points: 801, Level: 15 Points: 801, Level: 15
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
Last Achievements
 
rblain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1
I have the same die set. After reading through the material that came with the die set, i found one section that said if you are going to use the rounds in a semi auto rifle, it should be tamper crimped. I know the rcbs FL die set cant do that.
Does anyone know if using this die set will make a difference. I also will be using these rounds in a miini 14.

Thanks guys

Rick
rblain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2012, 20:14   #15
Full Member
Points: 3,777, Level: 38 Points: 3,777, Level: 38 Points: 3,777, Level: 38
Activity: 3.0% Activity: 3.0% Activity: 3.0%
Last Achievements
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 170
Sure you can taper crimp with the RCBS set. That's the standard crimp. However if you want a factory type crimp, then you need to use the Lee FCD for that. The RCBS won't do that kind of crimp.

The thing to remember about shooting in a mini 14 or any gas rifle is to FL size every time you reload. Some people try to neck size only to increase brass life but that is specifically not recommended for gas guns. Bolt actions yes but not gas rifles.
medalguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:28.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.1
All information is copyright by Perfectunion.com unless already under copyright.

This site is Gunny Approved