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Old 04-04-2003, 19:41   #1
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Is there a ball type rifle powder made that will work smoothly through my rcbs powder measure? I load 308 winchester by hand because Varget and H4198 will not measure reliably thru it.
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Old 04-04-2003, 19:53   #2
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Geno, you might try H 335, H 414, or H 380.
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Old 04-05-2003, 05:11   #3
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Try BL2C. I have had good results with it and it flows reliably thru my RCBS measure. I too have had good results with H335. I reload extruded and flake powders with good results thru my RCBS measure as well. You have to keep the hopper filled in a range that works for the powder and use consistent technique to get reliable and accurate drops. I get charges within .1gr either way of the setting consistently regardless of the powder.
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Old 04-05-2003, 08:25   #4
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I use BLC-2 also and it works good.

Another one I'm going to give a shot is 748. Others have said it meters good and is accurate in the .223 & .308.
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Old 04-05-2003, 12:19   #5
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I use WW748 metered thru a Lee powder measure to load 223, and it works well.
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Old 04-07-2003, 19:33   #6
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748 is one of the first powders of ANY type I'd reach for to load a .308 with, if you're shooting 150 gr. bullets. I can't remember if I ever loaded any heavier bullets with it in .308, so lakkamemory will prevent me from commenting there.

As to measuring out powder to exact weights, you may be interested to know that when Julian Hatcher was a big wig at one of the national ordnances mills, he tried to make .30-06 military match rounds more accurate. They were using long grained 4064 at the time, and he experimented using machine thrown charges vs. weighed charges. Ironically, the machine metered ammo outshot the weighed charge ammo. He said he had no explanation, except that perhaps the metered charges of the long grained powder bulked up better, thereby leaving more air space in a given volume, which allowed the flash of the primer to penetrate and permeate the charge better. He tested too many rounds for it to have been a statistical anomaly.

Now ANY ball powder ought to meter VERY precisely. It all flows almost like water, so minimum variations, on the order of + or - 0.1 gr. is nothing to really speak of.

All this attention to precisely weighed charges, though, is probably of minimal influence in a given rifle's accuracy. Not in EVERY case, but in most cases.

One technique for getting a powder measure to throw more consistent charges is this:

When you fill up the hopper with, say 4350, fill it almost full. A good head of seam won't hurt the way it meters, and I like to refill it when it gets much below half full. Then, when you've filled the hopper and put the cap back on the can, grab the hopper with your left hand, and pat it gently but firmly about 30 or more times. The vibrations set up by this light jostling helps settle the powder into a more uniform column. The top grains move more freely to establish a tighter density, and the bottom grains have all that powder above them pressing down to help densify the mass. Now, take your measure and move the handle to the back, tapping it against the stop 3 or 4 or 5 times (just make sure you do it the same number of times for each dump). This lets the measuring cavity fill up, and the tapping uniforms it. Then you bring the handle forward to dump. When it hits resistance, jiggle it lightly, and if that doesn't work, press it firmly to cut the grain(s)
holding it back, and let that charge fill the case. Repeat as often as you have cases. Then go shoot them. You won't be able to tell the difference, I'll bet, from laboriously weighed charges ....... at least when using the long grained extruded powders.

Nowadays, most new powders brag about how they flow smoothly through a powder measure. At matches, though, the old long grained stuff STILL is a force to be reckoned with, so maybe we get a little too anal about things like this.

Hope this helps. I'm assuming you still have a quantity of the long grained stuff, so thought this might help. Remember, the target is always, always, ALWAYS the final arbiter of what loads and powders and bullets and primers and OAL's shoot best. Precisely weighed charges of a powder that doesn't match your personal rifle's vibrations ain't gonna' shoot worth a hoot, no matter how precisely you measure it. Conversely, a powder that allows your barrel to vibrate uniformly from shot to shot, and lets the nodes in your barrel "sing," will shoot well, even if off a few tenths. You'll never know the difference.

The main thing is always going to be working up a load that will "tune" to your barrel, and shoot itsy bitsy groups. Some rifles are finicky, and some shoot many loads well.

Me? I like ball powders for volume rifle shooting, when they'll work for me, but for the field, I usually find the extruded powders give me everything I want. Whatever works, though, is whatever works, and there's no substitute for whatever works. And THAT is the bottom line. Always will be.
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Old 04-18-2003, 12:07   #7
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Thanks fellow reloaders!
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Old 05-02-2003, 02:51   #8
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Win 748 is my first choice for .223 and .308 as well, it's just way too easy of a powder to work with and I've acheived some really awesome accuracy with it.
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Old 06-07-2003, 13:00   #9
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Originally posted by Geno
Is there a ball type rifle powder made that will work smoothly through my rcbs powder measure? I load 308 winchester by hand because Varget and H4198 will not measure reliably thru it.

Tru the Lee Delux Auto Disk .


God Bless
Wyr
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Old 12-06-2003, 07:24   #10
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I bought Varget "Wonder Powder" for my .308 but it didn't work. Varget is wonderful in my .223 for any load that I have loaded. The 748 works better in the 308 just my 2cents.
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Old 12-06-2003, 08:06   #11
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My current accuracy load in .308 using 168 gr. Sierra MatchKing BTHP's is shot with Varget. I consistently get dime- to nickle-sized groups at 100 yards. I need to find a longer range to see how this particular load really shoots. Maybe Kelbly's in the spring.

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Old 12-06-2003, 18:09   #12
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WyrTwister: I have two RCBS powder measures one is an old Dueo-Measure and the other is an Uniflow. I have not experienced any dificulties with ether measure using Win. 748, IT meters very smooth and throwes charges very uniform. I have bought some Varget and have tried it also it metered very good as to not beeing very uniform I weight all my charges anyway so I throw my charges a couple of grains short and use the powder trickler to ballence my powder scale out. Another ball powder I have used and had very constience powder measure readings and also very good accuracy with is Accurate arms 2520. See if you can scronge some up and try it and see how it works for you. Keep em in the "X" Ring. Boltaction
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Old 12-12-2003, 08:29   #13
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If you haven't tried 748 for your 308 you need to. You may never need anything else and I meters with no problems thru my RCBS. I have also used BLC(2) and it meters very smoothly as well.
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Old 12-12-2003, 17:55   #14
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ww748 in the .223 & .308 (short cases)
ww760 in the .30-06, 270 (long cases)
748 is clean and medium quick burning for shorter barrels 16"-22"
760 is about the same but better for 22"-28" barrels.

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Old 12-13-2003, 00:59   #15
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For .308 Winchester I have used ball powders such as Accurate Arms 2520 and 2460, Hodgdon H335, H380 and BLC2. If you are loading for a gas gun such as an M1A stick within the acceptable burn rate of IMR3031 to IMR4064. H380 is outside of this burn rate.

Accurate Arms has a special lot of powder called 2230C for sale in 8lb kegs for ~60 bucks each. This powder is reported to be comparable to AA2460 in burn rate.

I am surprised that some people are having problems with Varget. I still weigh each charge but it meters very well and gives me outstanding accuracy with 168g bullets.
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Old 12-15-2003, 20:29   #16
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I've used AA 2230c in .223 and .30 cal cartridges, but I wish I hadn't just because of the availability. Its becoming harder to get because they aren't making it anymore, its a surplus powder. I've perfected my loads for it but now I have to start over. djl4570 you're right that it burns similar to 2460 but having to switch powders even a little bit off could affect the accuracy.
Just some food for thought.
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Old 12-19-2003, 11:44   #17
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Hogdon H-322SC the SC stands for short cut it really meters well. I love it for 223 and 308.
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Old 12-20-2003, 11:15   #18
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The surplus powders can be VERY good buys, but require conscientious load development if lots change--even with the same nominal powder.

If I were shooting mega-amounts of 223 or 308, the surplus WC-844 and WC-846 would cut powder costs in half or more. Most of the suppliers correlate their products' burn speed and characteristics to similar commercial powders, but this is a VERY VAGUE guideline.

I use a lot of WC-820 in magnum handgun calibers, and it is listed as an equivalent to H-110. Uh, not quite........more like AA-9, this from several sources I correspond with and my own results.

If a user is willing to GO SLOWLY and is not prone to running loads to the firewall, these powders can serve you well.

All ball powders flow like water and show very small variations between thrown charges in my rather ancient RCBS Duo-Measure. These characteristics run the gamut, from the fine-grained WC-820 to the ball-bearing sized WC-860 (50 BMG and 20mm powder) that I use in cast bullet rifle loads.
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Old 01-12-2004, 08:24   #19
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Originally posted by Geno@Apr 4 2003, 06:41 PM
Is there a ball type rifle powder made that will work smoothly through my rcbs powder measure? I load 308 winchester by hand because Varget and H4198 will not measure reliably thru it.
RHEY AL will, unless thee's something wrong with your measure!!
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Old 01-12-2004, 10:57   #20
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h4198 now comes in "short cut" and it meters through my dillon perfectly. i used IMR4198 for years in 45/70. it was the biggest pain to measure, H4198=NOT. my dillon drops 53 gr of H4198 at least 95% of the time and i top off each load to 55 gr with trickle. i plan to experiment with H335 ball powder in 45/70 with a long barrel soon (32"). i am trying to get a 250 gr barnes "X" .458 over 2900 fps in 45/70 load.

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Old 01-27-2004, 18:25   #21
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I shoot W748 by the truck load in .223, .308, amd .30-'06. It meters extremely well and it is very accurate in my loads.
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Old 01-28-2004, 09:05   #22
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Winchester 748 is a very good and versatile powder. I have used it successfully
in .308 .223 7-30waters, it flows evenly and gives me good accuracy. One inch
or less in all three.
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Old 02-22-2004, 21:21   #23
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Another vote for W748. It meters extremely well through my Dillon powder measure. I also like AA2460.
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Old 03-07-2004, 17:44   #24
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I have weighed charges, and I have thrown charges. I have shot them for accuracy at ranges out to 200 yards. 95% of the time, there is no difference. When there is a difference, the thrown charges usually win. Blackwater can't explain it, and neither can I. I used to load 4064 in a 7.7mm Japanese Arisaka, an old battlefield pickup rifle I bought for 45 bucks in 1970-something. It shot 4 to 5 inch groups at 100 yards with open sights. I gave up on weighing the charges, and started using the scoops. Sure enough, the next time I benched it, I got a 1.5" group at 100 yards. Shot it at 200. Got a three shot group under an inch.
Why? Beatsahellouttame. I tried it again the next time out, and got similar results. I think the shooting gods are toying with me.

And people ask me why I don't have any hair left.........

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Old 03-20-2004, 17:25   #25
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If you haven't tried one of the powder measure baffles in your powder throw, I can atest to it working well in my RCBS and helping with the problem of powder column height affecting the charge weight. As for .308 powders, my favorite overall powder is RL-15. It is extruded, but it's kind of small and meters well through my RCBS powder measure.

46 grains of RL-15, WLR primer, and 165 Hornady SSTs gives single digit std. dev. and ity bitty groups in my remington ADL.

Good Luck.
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