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Old 01-06-2005, 07:30   #1
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I just recieved this story from the American Family Association, a christian site. I believe someones rights where just tossed into file 13!! Will they start search and seizures for Bibles and religious artifacts, "they will call good, evil and evil, good".

PENNSYLVANIA CHRISTIANS FACE 47 YEARS IN PRISON FOR READING THE BIBLE IN PUBLIC
Philadelphia charges Christians with hate crimes, inciting a riot, and using a deadly weapon.

Bill O'Reilly reported on the situation on Fox News Channel

What we have been saying has now happened. You cannot quote what the Bible has to say about homosexuality in public or you will be charged with a "hate crime." Philadelphia is only the beginning. If we fail to take a stand here, this "crime" will soon be applied across America.

In the 27 years of this ministry, I have never witnessed a more outrageous miscarriage of justice than what is happening in Philadelphia. Four Christians are facing up to 47-years in prison and $90,000 in fines for preaching the Gospel on a public sidewalk, a right fully protected by the First Amendment.

On October 10, 2004, the four Christians were arrested in Philadelphia. They are part of Repent America. Along with founder Michael Marcavage, members of Repent America—with police approval--were preaching near Outfest, a homosexual event, handing out Gospel literature and carrying banners with Biblical messages.

When they tried to speak, they were surrounded by a group of radical homosexual activists dubbed the Pink Angels. A videotape of the incident shows the Pink Angels interfering with the Christians’ movement on the street, holding up large pink symbols of angels to cover up the Christians' messages and blowing high pitched whistles to drown out their preaching.

Rather than arrest the homosexual activists and allow the Christians to exercise their First Amendment rights, the Philadelphia police arrested and jailed the Christians!

They were charged with eight crimes, including three felonies: possession of instruments of crime (a bullhorn), ethnic intimidation (saying that homosexuality is a sin), and inciting a riot (reading from the Bible some passages relating to homosexuality) despite the fact that no riot occurred.

You may think I am exaggerating. I'm not. Our AFA Center for Law and Policy is representing these four individuals at no cost. We will take this case all the way to the Supreme Court if necessary to get justice.

There is so much more about this case I don't have room for it in this letter. We have prepared a 25-minute VHS/DVD in which two AFA-CLP attorneys discuss the case in detail.

Please help us with our expenses in representing these committed Christians. With your tax-deductible gift of $15, less than the cost of a cup of coffee once a month for the next year, we will send your choice of either the VHS or DVD. Watch the VHS/DVD, then share it with your Sunday school class and church. This VHS/DVD should be required viewing in every church in America.


-tri God be with them!!
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Old 01-06-2005, 07:34   #2
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This has been going on for a while.
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Old 01-06-2005, 09:21   #3
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THATS BULLsh**!! I hate the ACLU. They made us take the 10 Commandments down from our courthouse. I can't say what I'd like to do to them here without getting in trouble, but it's bad. I got the last laugh though because they are probably going to hell. We have to stop this madness. Looks like I'll never go to Facistdelphia.
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Old 01-06-2005, 10:32   #4
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Tri,
I received that also. We are going to be seeing a lot more of that, I'm afraid.

"Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 5:10

Jesus told His disciples, "If they persecuted Me, they will persecute you also" (John 15: 20).

We will need to pray for each other in these trying times.

Grant Your strength, O Lord, to those who are threatened and keep them steadfast in confessing Your name. Amen.

Metaldoc
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Old 01-06-2005, 12:07   #5
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Originally posted by Metaldoc@Jan 6 2005, 06:32 PM
Tri,
I received that also. We are going to be seeing a lot more of that, I'm afraid.

"Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 5:10

Jesus told His disciples, "If they persecuted Me, they will persecute you also" (John 15: 20).

We will need to pray for each other in these trying times.

Grant Your strength, O Lord, to those who are threatened and keep them steadfast in confessing Your name. Amen.

Metaldoc
Your right Doc. We need to be in prayer for our brethren who are in the fight. It is getting close to the time of the harvest, and the tares dont like it. I wouldnt either if I were them.

I have some personal friends, some of the finest men you would want to know, who have spent time in the "hotel", largley because of thier beliefs, persucution and set-ups.


According to the Word that Doc posted above, I would be concerned if I wasnt being slandered by this anti-Christ, Babyloian, system.

When I look at these "Palace Prophets" that are rubbing noses with those in power, ya just gotta wonder..... Thats NOT the way The King said it was gonna be!!! If your preacher is not catching hell from "those in high places", you had better closley examine what he is teaching.

Acts 17:11

"These [the Bereans] were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."
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Old 01-06-2005, 13:49   #6
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well if they are going to do that then they need to stop all the gay pride parades and gatherings...
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Old 01-06-2005, 18:12   #7
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In the days of it's colonization, Philadelphia was called "The city of brotherly love" for its pacifist religious tolerance.

Today, they bring on a whole new meaning of "brotherly love" (sickos).

These are definately the last days.
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Old 01-06-2005, 18:19   #8
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Originally posted by Tunug@Jan 6 2005, 06:12 PM


These are definately the last days.
I agree. I'm generally an optimistic person, but I have my doubts that there is any light at the end of the tunnel of this "culture war" in which we find ourselves engaged.
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Old 01-06-2005, 19:30   #9
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I realize I probably stand fairly alone here in my thinking, but to play devil's advocate...

If people were standing on the sidewalk preaching passages out of the Bible advocating racism, would or should they be arrested for a hate crime?

Personally, I don't think it's right that these people were arrested. They were complying with the police, it was a legal demonstration. Do I have anything against homosexuals? No. Do I think they are sinners? Only if they are not true to themselves. Do I believe in God? Yes. Do I believe that Jesus was (at the very least) a messenger from God if not the physical incarnation of God? Yes. But then I also believe many other people were such "prophets", such as Mohammed of the Islamic faith, Buddha, etc, etc. When you look at the core message each of these influential people preached, it was basically the same- to love all and judge none.
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Old 01-07-2005, 07:22   #10
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Damn Liberals! It's that Tolerance crap that is causing all of this. The question is what are WE going to do? We that call ourselves christians and believe the same as these people and call them brother. What do we do? Let the madness continue, speak up in public, or forcibly take our country back? Decisions, decisions, decisions.
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Old 01-07-2005, 09:23   #11
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Christians are not protesting by blowing themselves and the infidells up!! We must hold to a moral standard, black and white of right and wrong, no gray.

"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use." --Galileo Galilei


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Old 01-07-2005, 11:17   #12
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Originally posted by tri70@Jan 7 2005, 09:23 AM
Christians are not protesting by blowing themselves and the infidells up!! We must hold to a moral standard, black and white of right and wrong, no gray.

"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use." --Galileo Galilei


tri
Good Point, Tri.

One thing I might add is to start a fund to pay for attorney fees when we have to confront these left wing anti-Christian people in court and stop them. If you have a good lawyer, you can do just about anything. Time to use the legal profession for good, not evil!
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Old 01-08-2005, 09:11   #13
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I wonder, are there any Christian lawyers out there? I mean men of standards and morals who would not represent the client if they were guilty.
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Old 01-08-2005, 10:39   #14
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Originally posted by lendell@Jan 8 2005, 05:11 PM
I wonder, are there any Christian lawyers out there? I mean men of standards and morals who would not represent the client if they were guilty.
Im sure there are. In fact, I know of a few. Keep in mind, Christ was pretty hard on that profession in general at the time of His coming to Redeem.

Luke 12:52
"Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered."

He was also speaking of the Pharisees that were monitoring His every move that they might tattel tell to their Ceaser/god. Remember they were on top at the time.


Acts 17:6 "And when they found them not, they drew Jason and certain brethren unto the rulers of the city, crying, These (Christians) that have turned the world upside down are come hither also;"

If they are on top, and these Christians "turn the world upside down", where does that put them?

Right where they belong!!!
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Old 01-08-2005, 10:46   #15
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Originally posted by IVM@Jan 7 2005, 03:30 AM


If people were standing on the sidewalk preaching passages out of the Bible advocating racism, would or should they be arrested for a hate crime?

We do still have ( are supposed to have) free speach in this country dont we? What gives them the right to put someone in jail because they dont agree with their beliefs or what they say. THIS IS A SLIPPERY SLOPE WE ARE HEADED DOWN!!!

When they say,[said with a very high pitched voice, and lisp] "its OK to arrest them because what they teach is wrong". Or, "that gun is evil, no one has use of anything like that unless they want to kill inocent people with it", Or "that preacher should be put in jail because he offends me". It just a matter of time, (and a short one) till the big wheel rolls around to them.

In todays society, all is needed to make us a racist is to change the deffinition, and convince the masses that the "new" deffinition is correct. Some here know what I speak of.

Edited: to better reflect my original thoughts.
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Old 01-08-2005, 15:05   #16
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I totally understand what you're saying- as I said, I don't believe they should've been tossed in jail. Like I said, I support the ACLU when they defended the KKK's right to wear masks during protests (Even Rev. Al Sharpton supported the KKK on that one!), despite not liking their hate-mongering speech. First Amendment, after all!

I was simply asking if people WOULD be arrested or SHOULD be arrested for a "hate crime" for preaching racism in public from the Bible. That doesn't mean I believe they should.
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Old 01-08-2005, 15:29   #17
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Originally posted by IVM@Jan 8 2005, 11:05 PM
I totally understand what you're saying- as I said, I don't believe they should've been tossed in jail. Like I said, I support the ACLU when they defended the KKK's right to wear masks during protests (Even Rev. Al Sharpton supported the KKK on that one!), despite not liking their hate-mongering speech. First Amendment, after all!

I was simply asking if people WOULD be arrested or SHOULD be arrested for a "hate crime" for preaching racism in public from the Bible. That doesn't mean I believe they should.
And I didnt mean that against you, nor was I saying that "you" were saying that. I read it again, and were I inserted "you", would have better effect as "they".

Im am pretty passionate about this, mainly because with the "patriot" act, all that has to been done, is to lable someone a terrorist. Thats already been done to many of us. Remember Reno's "deffinition".
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Old 01-08-2005, 15:38   #18
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IVM,

First, I think you have struck up some great conversations.
Second, I am going to quote some things you said and make some observations that hopefully you will find useful (from my own little pea brain). Please don't think I'm being antagonistic or critical (and please correct me when I'm wrong), but here goes.

You said...
"Do I believe in God? Yes. Do I believe that Jesus was (at the very least) a messenger from God if not the physical incarnation of God? Yes. But then I also believe many other people were such "prophets", such as Mohammed of the Islamic faith, Buddha, etc, etc. When you look at the core message each of these influential people preached, it was basically the same- to love all and judge none."

I think you may be unsure, in your heart, of Jesus Christ's identity. Based on scripture He is God incarnate or one of the greatest deceivers of all time. He could not have been just a messenger or all His teachings concerning Himself, His sacrifice and all the prophecies concerning Him are wrong. And thus the hope of a salvation gift for all who will accept it from the hand of a loving Creator is gone.

Concerning the prophet of Islam, you should look carefully into who he was. Yes, he was a rabble-rouser just like Jesus. But, he was an illiterate (I have no problem with that) 7th century warlord who knew that men would fight and die willingly if they believed it was for God, and that God would reward them richly for doing so. Thus his “followers” were to be rewarded with the spoils of conquest if they lived and with a crystal palace, 72 virgins and wine if they died. He told his followers that he was the correcting prophet and, though the prophets of the Bible were true prophets, the scriptures concerning them have been corrupted by the Jews & Christians. He also declared himself the final prophet, so all of Islam is based on him alone. He routinely tortured and mutilated his prisoners. He declared Muslims should have no more than 4 wives, but that he had a special approval from God for more. He had 13 wives, he was 52 when he married his last wife, she was 8. Unmarried sex was forbidden, unless it was with a prisoner or conquered woman (rape). He signed peace treaties so he could reposition his forces and then destroy those with whom he had the treaty. Conquered peoples were given the opportunity to become Muslim, be killed, driven out or, if wealthy, buy their life and stay. He stated the goal of Islam is peace and that peace would come when the entire world submits to Islam. Scribes who traveled with him recorded his claimed declarations from God, the Koran, and meticulously recorded all he did, the Hadiths. Muslims hold him up as the ideal Muslim.

Muhammad’s message was certainly not to love all and judge none. He was a medieval warlord and the religion he created has left us with a medieval mess. Stand back and look at the Islamic world and ask yourself if it doesn’t fit neatly into the nutshell description above. Ever wonder why Muslim clerics won’t condemn 9/11 or terrorist atrocities?

Many religions teach peace, but Islam is not one of them and none teach the peace and sure salvation of Jesus Christ.


Regards,

Carl

PS I think it would be difficult to preach racism from the Bible.
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Old 01-08-2005, 15:47   #19
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Originally posted by cjmkerns@Jan 8 2005, 11:38 PM
Ever wonder why Muslim clerics won’t condemn 9/11 or terrorist atrocities?

I know why!!!!

Because the Bible prophecy of Ishmael is right on the mark.

Genesis 16:12
"He will be a wild donkey of a man; his hand will be against everyone and everyone's hand against him, and he will live in hostility toward [ Or live to the east / of ] all his brothers."
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Old 01-08-2005, 17:06   #20
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Carl,

A few of the things you posted are considered "misconceptions"- there was a well written book by a Christian about Islam and Muhammed in specific. There are many truths that you've stated, but I have to find the book I was reading about it.

And I never thinking someone is being too antagonistic. But then, debate is debate and I enjoy it no matter what someone has to say, or how they say it.
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Old 01-08-2005, 17:17   #21
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How many times have we arrest the particants of a gay pride parade from the Bible belt? Middle America will not tolerate double standards of the "left coast", the laws will carry a different meaning every week for them!!

-tri
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Old 01-08-2005, 18:33   #22
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IVM,

The things I stated come from the Koran & the Hadiths, the holy writings of Islam.

IVM, when 9/11 happened I needed the comfort of knowing that this had been commited by a handful of nutcases who had bastardized the religion of Islam for their hateful & evil ends. That need led me to an examination of Islam & its roots. I wish I hadn't found what I found, it was no comfort. But, on the bright side in looking around it would seem most Muslims are just like you and me. Willing to live side by side in peace with those of other faiths wanting to see their children grow up, spend time with grand children and lead a good life. But that peace part is in spite of Islam, not because of it.

If indeed you can find where the things I stated are in error, please let me know.

Regards,

Carl
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Old 01-08-2005, 21:49   #23
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It is interesting that there has not been much said about the muslim terrorists/facists in asia who let it be known that they will not harm the americans in asia during this time while they are in relief efforts for the tsunami. My how thoughtful and kind they are. As I have said before, they hate us but love our assistance and money. Funny how the sheiks with all their billions are sending large amounts of aid.
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Old 01-09-2005, 00:08   #24
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Originally posted by IVM@Jan 8 2005, 03:05 PM
I totally understand what you're saying- as I said, I don't believe they should've been tossed in jail. Like I said, I support the ACLU when they defended the KKK's right to wear masks during protests (Even Rev. Al Sharpton supported the KKK on that one!), despite not liking their hate-mongering speech. First Amendment, after all!

I was simply asking if people WOULD be arrested or SHOULD be arrested for a "hate crime" for preaching racism in public from the Bible. That doesn't mean I believe they should.*
Well I'm not sure that you can say that the Bible supports racism, though some southern politicians of the past and hate groups such as the Arayan Nation's Cult of Phinneas claim that it does.

One of the nice things about the First Amendment is that it guarantees not only the right of these hateful, mean spirited and cruel groups to speak their mind but it also guarantees you the right to respond to this garbage however you choose to do so. Next time the Klan tells you that blacks and Jews are inferior to whites you can simply shake you head, stare them right in the eye and say "Dude, you're an idiot!" It's all protected by the constitution, after all!

Let 'em say whatever they want to, I think. I don't buy into their rhetoric and neither should you. If they believe their terrible message, then so be it. Neither I, nor anyone else, nor any law can change that. In this world, there will be people that will hate you from the hair on your head to the shoes on your feet for no reason at all. That's a sad fact of life and there's not much we can do about it. The best thing that we can do is endeavor to rise above that stuff and be a better person than that.

Now if they want to lay so much as a finger on you for their beliefs or yours, feel free to exercise your second amendment rights!

With respect to the Pennsylvania case, this is a clear case of injustice towards Christians and, if the situation were reversed, would not have been tolerated in the least. I personally believe that there is a strong anti Christian sentiment amongst left wing dogma and will slowly see much greater expression as more and more power is attained by the left. This persecution will be limited to Christianity and most likely Judaism as well, yet will not extend towards other religions like Islam, Bhuddism, Shintoism, Hinduism, etc. At any rate it (and the PA case) is a clear violation of the Constitution and should be vigorously fought, all the way to the Supreme Court if necessary.

I personally applaud these Christian groups for saying that homosexuality is wrong. Their religious teaching tells them that such activities are sinful and are not to be participated in. It takes guts to stand up and say that and shows quite a bit of moral character on their part to not cave in to this peer pressure. Their protests of these activities were not illegal or dangerous or violent in any way. And the acts of the 'Pink Angels' interference of their protests speaks volumes of how much the Angels tolerate any other viewpoint than their own.
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Old 01-09-2005, 04:22   #25
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Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: atlanta, georgia @ the airport
Posts: 2,183

christians don't have a problem getting blood on their hands if they think god is on their side. they have one of the bloodiest histories of all. if they had not been stopped by society's will; we would sill have murderous inquisitions, crusading/marauding knights, invading spanish christians spreading the blood of the gospel to native americans, witch burning holier than thou christians passing final judgement on hearsay and the float test, etc.

i think it only fair if the christians can publicly harass the gay pride parade by bashing them with christianity; gays should be able to harass the vacation bible school parade with gay pride rhetoric/literature/condoms. the father of the FBI should have some clout here, pass out some picture posters of our forefathers. we have a lot of christian "fathers" which subscribe to the practice but they won't let gays in the church.

one of your famous christian brothers spoke of casting stones and i'm not talking about david.

you can make the bible/word/gospel infer/imply whatever you will, it covers everthing under the sun, good and bad. i refer to it as every man's "guide to life", just pick a subject, it's there.

all of this world gloom and doom is actually promoting the religions. like always, when the alligators get deep, man gets weak. we have the beginings of a big evangelical revival in this country. with bush pushing chrisianity and war from the whitehouse and billy graham as his mentor he was sure to win the election. about 84% of the country is declared christian, however only about 2% of them agree with each other's "gospel". we are in for some big changes and we all know how much we love to "change".

when you don't have a job, the cost of living is out of sight, the president is endorsing imigrant labor because "his" americans won't work that cheap, 4 out of 10 men/women in the hood are in iraq and one is missing in action, you tend to get a little down. most "down" people i am aware of go to the bottle/bible or both. everything gets left up to "faith" as a last ditch effort, hope/pray it away, save my little a$$ from this misery.

swordslinger,

He will be a wild donkey of a man; his hand will be against everyone and everyone's hand against him, and he will live in hostility toward [ Or live to the east / of ] all his brothers
when are the republicans gonna quit pickin' on kerry.

gossman,

they ain't got no weapons, so they call a time out. honestly i am more worried about the ones running around in country.
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<span style=\'color:red\'><span style=\'font-size:8pt;line-height:100%\'>ready on the right, ready on the left, commence FIRE! FIRE AT</span> s<span style=\'font-size:8pt;line-height:100%\'>WILL!</span></span>
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