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Old 09-01-2013, 08:46   #51
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Ooops... backing down a little more, finger's off the trigger, going to spin it over to Congress and let them take the heat for the decision making. Britain already collapsed, and France is teetering under pressure to run it past their legislature.

That's what happens when you draw red lines in the sand...
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Old 09-01-2013, 09:31   #52
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Originally Posted by Parnelli View Post
Ooops... backing down a little more, finger's off the trigger, going to spin it over to Congress and let them take the heat for the decision making. Britain already collapsed, and France is teetering under pressure to run it past their legislature.

That's what happens when you draw red lines in the sand...
Some interesting politics coming off this that I hadn't considered previously.
Scenario 1: Congress decides to authorize it, leaving Barry in the position of explaining why he doesn't strike ("Vladimir won't let me" is probably not something he wants to admit to).
Scenario 2: Barry begs Putin at the G20 for permission to have a face saving strike that causes no significant damage to the Syrian regime. Barry would have to offer something pretty good to Putin to get that permission, not sure if he has anything that good to offer.

Reportedly the rebels have positioned themselves to go on the offensive to capitalize on damage wrought by a US strike. That leaves them vulnerable to a ground push by Assad's forces in much the same way that the VC were crushed following Tet. If there is no effective US strike, and the Syrian regime has any sense at all, they will aggressively move to crush what's left of the Sunni rebels. While I personally don't care who wins in the ME, the complete collapse of the Sunni uprising would preempt Barry's ability to directly involve the US there so I would actually favor that outcome under the circumstances.

Just some thoughts,
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Old 09-01-2013, 12:04   #53
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More news from the middle eastern front!

Just when you thought.....................Breaking news: Rebels admit gas attack result of mishandling chemical weapons - Dothan Christianity | Examiner.com
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Old 09-01-2013, 12:10   #54
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Capitalism at work

BRITAIN allowed firms to sell chemicals to Syria capable of being used to make nerve gas, the Sunday Mail can reveal today.

Export licences for potassium fluoride and sodium fluoride were granted months after the bloody civil war in the Middle East began.

The chemical is capable of being used to make weapons such as sarin, thought to be the nerve gas used in the attack on a rebel-held Damascus suburb which killed nearly 1500 people, including 426 children, 10 days ago.
...
Britain sold nerve gas chemicals to Syria 10 months after war began - Daily Record
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Old 09-01-2013, 13:35   #55
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Syria, the Saudi connection: The Prince with close ties to Washington at the heart of the push for war - Middle East - World - The Independent
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Old 09-01-2013, 14:14   #56
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Something that we had known all along, i mean we, not john "cotton mouth" kerry we...lol
Is there any other sources, since throwing it in my liberals friends faces is much more fun with a few sources

So just in case nsa snooping and Snowden revelations hadn't made us a laughing stock, i think we may just have cinched the title with this.

While i'll be more than overjoyed if we don't bomb/invade syria, i'll be holding my breath for "startling developments" for at least 6 mths.

This is a pyric victory for conservatives since the damage done by obama will not be fully known for years to come.
Hilary is mysteriously being kept out of the spotlight anyone else notice that?
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Old 09-01-2013, 14:21   #57
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Originally Posted by nomad07 View Post
Is there any other sources, since throwing it in my liberals friends faces is much more fun with a few sources
Here is the original source,
EXCLUSIVE: Syrians In Ghouta Claim Saudi-Supplied Rebels Behind Chemical Attack

but you'll have to go to other sites like "Infowars" to find headlines as misleading as to the actual content as that of the "Examiner" article (which is basically hack plagiarism).
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Old 09-01-2013, 15:54   #58
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Talking Inquiry mind wants to know !

Where were these folks ( who know everything ) back when Bush was claiming there are weapons of MASS DESTRUCTION in Iraq ?

I've always said that time tells everything , if you wait long enough !

I'm against helping those rebels besides giving them orders to " always ATTACK regardless of casualties " , who need to do it themselves and earn their freedom , as " freedom is never free " so go for it (you Syrian rebels ) and let " Allah decide your fate " ( remember all those virgins awake your sacrifice )!
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Old 09-02-2013, 04:36   #59
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Horrors! Syria has violated international conventions by producing TOOTHPASTE!
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Old 09-02-2013, 04:38   #60
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Barack Obama is proving an embarrassing amateur on the world stage compared to George W. Bush ? Telegraph Blogs

Barack Obama is proving an embarrassing amateur on the world stage compared to George W. Bush

By Nile Gardiner August 30th, 2013

The Telegraph UK



President Bush knew how to build a coalition

George W. Bush was widely mocked by the Left during the Iraq War, with liberals jeering at the “coalition of the willing,” which included in its ranks some minnows such as Moldova and Kazkhstan. Michael Moore, in his rather silly documentary Fahrenheit 9/11, went to great lengths to lampoon the Iraq War alliance. But the coalition also contained, as I pointed out in Congressional testimony back in 2007, Great Britain, Australia, Spain, Italy, Poland, and 16 members of the NATO alliance, as well as Japan and South Korea. In Europe, France and Germany were the only large-scale countries that sat the war out, with 12 of the 25 members of the European Union represented. The coalition, swelled to roughly 40 countries, and was one of the largest military coalitions ever assembled.

As it stands, President Obama’s proposed military coalition on Syria has a grand total of two members – the US and France. And the French, as we know from Iraq, simply can’t be relied on, and have very limited military capability. It is a truly embarrassing state of affairs when Paris, at best a fair weather friend, is your only partner. John Kerry tried to put a brave face on it at his press conference today, by referring to France “as our oldest ally,” but the fact remains that his administration is looking painfully isolated.

There can be no doubt that David Cameron’s defeat in the House of Commons was a huge blow to President Obama, and has dominated the US news networks this morning. The absence of Britain in any American-led military action significantly weakens Obama’s position on the world stage, and dramatically undercuts the Obama administration. The vote reflected not only a lack of confidence in the Commons in the prime minister’s Syria strategy, it also demonstrated a striking lack of confidence in Barack Obama and US leadership.

In marked contrast to Obama, President Bush invested a great deal of time and effort in cultivating ties with key US allies, especially Britain. The Special Relationship actually mattered to George W. Bush. For Barack Obama it has been a mere blip on his teleprompter. Bush also went out of his way to build ties with other allies in Europe, including with Spanish Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar, and an array of countries in Eastern and Central Europe. Obama simply hasn’t bothered making friends in Europe, and has treated some nations with sheer disdain and disrespect, including Poland and the Czech Republic. He has found common currency with France’s Socialist President Francois Hollande, an ideological soul-mate, but finds himself in a very lonely position elsewhere across the Atlantic.

In addition, and most importantly, George W. Bush was a conviction president on foreign policy matters, driven by a clear sense of the national interest. President Bush emphatically made his case to the American people and to the world, explaining why he believed the use of force was necessary, and dozens of countries decided to follow him. In the case of Barack Obama, whose foreign policy has been weak-kneed, confused and strategically incoherent, the president hasn’t effectively made the case for military intervention in Syria, and has made no serious effort to cultivate support both at home and abroad. President Bush may not have been greatly loved on the world stage, but he was respected by America’s allies, and feared by his enemies. In marked contrast, Obama hasn’t generated a lot of respect abroad, and he certainly isn’t feared.
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Old 09-02-2013, 04:59   #61
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Talking Here's what I do !

I hope that Obama doesn't prove to be a bigger fool than G W Bush or even Tricky Dick Nixon , this would require alot !

I'm sure our allies realize what a fool Bush was starting that Iraq war and like many sane folks don't want to be "mislead again" !

We need to let these folks shoot it out and let mother nature decide !
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Old 09-02-2013, 05:55   #62
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Originally Posted by Carpshooter View Post
I hope that Obama doesn't prove to be a bigger fool than G W Bush or even Tricky Dick Nixon , this would require alot !

I'm sure our allies realize what a fool Bush was starting that Iraq war and like many sane folks don't want to be "mislead again" !

We need to let these folks shoot it out and let mother nature decide !
Bush??

Bush let Congress decide and had majority vote including 58% of Dems in the Senate

Seems like it was America's war.

It's funny how the Democrats can renege and not claim any responsibility

Par for the course
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Old 09-02-2013, 06:06   #63
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"I hope that Obama doesn't prove to be a bigger fool than G W Bush or even Tricky Dick Nixon , this would require alot !"

Ooops... too late...
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Old 09-02-2013, 06:45   #64
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And, if it was the rebel's "mishandling of the chemical weapons" that caused it, what does that show the world about U.S. foreign policy, and more importantly, about our reaction to these events.

So, if it was the rebels' fault, does this not reveal a new "strategy" to employ in a situation where a small group of rebels are up against a formidable government foe? Or, possibly even a third group/government using the rebel's as a proxy to help drive their true goals.

Look at how U.S. war ships and military resources were mobilized to to the region. And, dovetail this will an amateurish POTUS who spouts off at the mouth with his nuggets of "wisdom" and declarations (i.e. Obama's "red line") of how he thinks the world's citizens should act, or not act.

So, the strategy is simple...

Wait until the overconfident, foot-in-mouth POTUS makes another "red line" statement in his usual professorial manner, lecturing upon the world stage as he's always dreamed, and then use his own words to force his hand to act.

Heck, if I was the leader of a small rebel group, and I wanted to potentially defeat a much larger foe, why not just "stage" a chemical attack, or some other WMD event? Just look at how ODingus and the U.S. took the bait.

Would not U.S. war planes, cruise missiles and drones pointed at your larger foe benefit you, while also furthering the destabilization of the already-strained relations between the two governments, thus causing a major distraction for you to gain some ground?

Also, think about the mentality of various Middle East groups who might align with such a strategy. Many of these "religious-based" groups consider dying for their cause to be a high honor.

From an "ends justifies the means" point of view, the strategy would prove useful...

Stage a WMD attack, and let the U.S. come in and handle your enemy. At the worst, this further destabilizes the relations between your foe and the U.S. government. And, in the process it shows how weak U.S. foreign policy actually is at the moment. Moreover, you get to see how the U.S. would react, thus forcing our nation to tip its hand...and thus, showing our predictability.

At this point, ODingus has blinked. He kicked our nation's reaction to the Syria gas attack over to Congress to provide his ego with some cover. If Congress approves military action, he'll say he acted with Congress' blessing. If they disapprove, he'll explained he didn't have the "will of the people" to act.

While in the short-run, ODingus may gain political cover. But, in the long-run, it shows his incompetence on the world stage. And, at home in the U.S., it shows he must resort to political tactics to wiggle out of tough moments. Again...leading from behind.

The proverbial "buck" doesn't ever even get close to ODingus' desk. He's continually hidden behind his teleprompter, his Executive Orders, his "Kill List" and drones, and his long list of useful idiots to do his bidding.

What a pathetic limp d^ck of a prez we have...
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Old 09-02-2013, 07:20   #65
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Talking Am I missing something ?

Originally Posted by ManyFeathers View Post
Bush??

Bush let Congress decide and had majority vote including 58% of Dems in the Senate

Seems like it was America's war.

It's funny how the Democrats can renege and not claim any responsibility

Par for the course
If I remember correctly , seems like Bush was always saying ( and he did this a lot ) that Iraq was behind 911 also , didn't seem too worried about Afghanistan where we should of been more concern ! We are still there in Afghanistan thanks to the bad leadership of Bush !

We'll be out someday , thanks to Obama , as he got us out of Iraq !

If Mitt was in , we'd already be in Syria so his big business buddies could bill us taxpayers for all the rebuilding plus the purchase of building more weapons that we don't need , just like they did in Iraq where we were fools to throw unlimited funds to those contractors dreams !

We need to leave the rebuilding to mother nature !

I still say we should just let Syria people decide on their own fate !
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Old 09-02-2013, 09:54   #66
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So much for Biden's "Barack has a big stick..."

It's more like a big limp stick.

The reality is Obama has no clue what he is doing in the ME, never has, and appears he never will have any ideas that play well in the light of reality.

1) Arabs hate the Jews.
2) Muslims are not, and NEVER have been our allies.
3) Muslims are broken into various sects, and of those, the Suni "Wahabi" sect, is not very friendly with the Shia sects that run Iran and Southern Iraq.
4) The intelligent leaders of any Arab/Persian nation use religion to control the ignorant folks in their nations. They limit education levels to keep the people controllable with religion, and this is one of the reasons that guys like the Shah of Iran, or more current events taking down Libya, Egypt and now the attempt at Syria are going on. (They use religion too, but have allowed education, freedom and especially NON-religion freedoms to people that undercut what the Mullah's can have power wise.)

When Obama went around on his apology tour, he set the stage for this very situation we are in now. (He appeared weak, and was seen as weak, and weakness to Arabs is time to attack.)

When Obama failed to choose the correct sides when it comes to religion v/s government, he further showed his weakness and lack of intelligence.

We laughed when Libya fell. We praised democratic values when Egypt fell. We stood back and did nothing while the same Muslim idiots try to overthrow Syria.

Perhaps worse, we get sucked in with idiots like McSame over there arm in arm with Muslims killing Christians... Then calls to create no-fly zones in territory that we have zero intrest in.

That's the key here folks.

We have zero intrest in Syria. Let them kill each other off till only 10% of the population is left, nobody in the USA is going to be affected one iota.

Better yet, tell Israel to secure what they need to stop Syria from being a threat, and sit back and support that move by them into Syria and Lebanon, and change the entire power balance in the area for the better. (And in the meantime, wipe Gaza off the map, it's loaded with Muslims who hate us, and would be better off dead, than alive to attack the USA or our people.)

If 50 million Muslims were wiped out, all the better, they are not our friends folks.
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Old 09-03-2013, 07:22   #67
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I should have added a third political scenario to my post above, but its so remarkably incompetent that I have trouble believing even Barry could contemplate it.

We ain't outta the woods yet folks. Reports are circulating that Barry plans a major intervention in Syria, which may be why he called a halt on his missile strikes and called for congressional action that would authorize boots on the ground. IOW the missile strikes wouldn't be enough at this juncture to save the Sunni rebels and that's his real goal - assist the Sunnis at destabilizing Assad (we wouldn't have to directly remove Assad, just make it so the Sunnis can). US general says Syria action could be 'more substantial than thought' - Telegraph

If true, and if the RINO's under McCain & Co. give assent, a limited though costly Russia/US conflict is still a real possibility with the Chinese pulling the plug on their support for our dollar. Strap in tight, the ride may become a bit bumpy....

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Old 09-03-2013, 08:09   #68
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Wink Now it all makes sense...

BOMBSHELL OF THE YEAR!!! Egyptian Media: Obama Is A Muslim Brotherhood Member |

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Old 09-03-2013, 08:41   #69
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from the story: "This is just one source and we can’t independently verify the claims."

"The snake hisses. The Arab speaks." Old proverb.

Never believe anything anyone in the Arab world says. Ever. And if they offer evidence have it carefully checked.
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Old 09-03-2013, 10:12   #70
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In Syria you have 2 Moslem groups fighting one another, we, the US needs to stay out of it.
Obummer let four good men be killed in Bengasi, come to find out they were giving arms to the Syrian rebels, then he tried to cover that up.
Let those idiots fight it out and let Allah sort it out.
We have lost enough good men and spent way too much money in the Hell hole called the middle east.
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Old 09-03-2013, 11:03   #71
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And now Boehner is once again living up to his RINO heritage and is giving in. The big question is, has Barry backed off because the Russians told him to, or is he a big enough fool to risk a war that will at best be an expensive waste of men and national treasure and at worst will risk a confrontation with the Russians, Iranians, and Chinese? The only winners can be Iran or Saudi Arabia, both countries hostile to America, and both want to establish regional hegemony in the ME. Even if the US cleanly displaces Assad, Israel will have a new security nightmare of a Moslem Brotherhood country as a neighbor, and the Saudis will be ascendant in the region. The US gets nothing from this at all, except risk.

Boehner: 'I'm Going to Support the President's Call for Action' in Syria | The Weekly Standard

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Old 09-03-2013, 14:11   #72
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Originally Posted by Adjuster View Post
So much for Biden's "Barack has a big stick..."

It's more like a big limp stick.

The reality is Obama has no clue what he is doing in the ME, never has, and appears he never will have any ideas that play well in the light of reality.

1) Arabs hate the Jews.
2) Muslims are not, and NEVER have been our allies.
3) Muslims are broken into various sects, and of those, the Suni "Wahabi" sect, is not very friendly with the Shia sects that run Iran and Southern Iraq.
4) The intelligent leaders of any Arab/Persian nation use religion to control the ignorant folks in their nations. They limit education levels to keep the people controllable with religion, and this is one of the reasons that guys like the Shah of Iran, or more current events taking down Libya, Egypt and now the attempt at Syria are going on. (They use religion too, but have allowed education, freedom and especially NON-religion freedoms to people that undercut what the Mullah's can have power wise.)

When Obama went around on his apology tour, he set the stage for this very situation we are in now. (He appeared weak, and was seen as weak, and weakness to Arabs is time to attack.)

When Obama failed to choose the correct sides when it comes to religion v/s government, he further showed his weakness and lack of intelligence.

We laughed when Libya fell. We praised democratic values when Egypt fell. We stood back and did nothing while the same Muslim idiots try to overthrow Syria.

Perhaps worse, we get sucked in with idiots like McSame over there arm in arm with Muslims killing Christians... Then calls to create no-fly zones in territory that we have zero intrest in.

That's the key here folks.

We have zero intrest in Syria. Let them kill each other off till only 10% of the population is left, nobody in the USA is going to be affected one iota.

Better yet, tell Israel to secure what they need to stop Syria from being a threat, and sit back and support that move by them into Syria and Lebanon, and change the entire power balance in the area for the better. (And in the meantime, wipe Gaza off the map, it's loaded with Muslims who hate us, and would be better off dead, than alive to attack the USA or our people.)

If 50 million Muslims were wiped out, all the better, they are not our friends folks.

This post is great and i could not agree more with that last sentence.
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Old 09-04-2013, 11:49   #73
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We're the new Hessians?

At least according to Barry and his new mouthpiece in State, we're Hessians for the Saudis: The House?s Syria hearing: Live updates

Just in case anyone out there is still under the misunderstanding that US interests are at stake here, they're not. Saudi ambitions are, and apparently they're willing to pay for 'em.

If any Republican dreamed of renting out our military the way that Barry's crew is planning we'd never hear the end of it. As it is, I'm sure the MSM apologists will just call it "good business".

Angrily,
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Old 09-04-2013, 12:40   #74
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If their is a shred of truth to the reporting that Obama's family/brother is running money, and that Obama is a defacto member of the Muslim Brotherhood, my assement that he's a fool is completely off base.

He is no fool. He is an idiot, and he's not doing what's best for the USA, but he's no fool.

He is, or appears to be, a very crafty devil, using our money, power and domestic/national media to push forward a change in the ME that will be long lasting, and NOT good for the USA at all.

This is what the Saudi's have wanted for decades. A Kalifa where they are the masters of the Kaliphate.

But here at home, it's much, much worse.
This story, if true, has our elected President as a member of the very same organization that is today "The Base" and in reality, he's part of the 911 attacks and a fan of Bin Ladin. No wonder he had to be nearly forced to get that bastard. (And then why they outed, and betrayed the SEALS who did the job, placing them into an old helicopter, and telling the Taliban where, and when to shoot it down, while they have many new helicopters to come "rescue" the dead SEALS.)

Folks this changes everything.

Why do you think England pulled support? It was not because of NO reason. (They have Mi6, and those guys for sure know about this Muslim Brotherhood claim, and the links between Obama family money being run to MB terrorists and factions all over the ME and North Africa.)

The Brits are not stupid. Neither are the Germans, and you can be sure the Russians and China will have none of this nonsense.

If it's true, or ever LOOKS true that Obama's family is tied up with the Muslim Brotherhood, we are in deep crap folks.

It's treason and schemes even a Star Wars Sith would be envious of.

These are not little claims.

This is huge stuff. This changes history. This if true, places the leader of the USA, of the "Free World" into the hands of a Muslim Traitor, who should not just be impeached, but tried for Treason.

There is NO good Muslim Brotherhood member.

Not one.
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Old 09-04-2013, 16:13   #75
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Seeing as how AlwaysWrong has already taken this thread full-on wackjob ...

Rosenberg may seem like a fringe figure, but he has a large base of support and friends in high places. Damascus Countdown was, like the two preceding books in the series, Twelfth Imam and Tehran Initiative, a New York Times bestseller. He has been cited as an expert on nuclear policy by Fox News, where host Shannon Bream noted that he had been referred to as a "modern-day Nostradamus." Former (and future) Republican presidential candidate Rick Santorum wrote a blurb for the hardcover edition of Damascus Countdown and brought the author onto his radio show, Patriot Voices, to discuss the book last spring.

In March, Rosenberg met privately with Texas Gov. Rick Perry and Rep. Louie Gohmert in Austin. Gohmert was such a big fan of the novelist he brought a copy of Damascus Countdown as a gift to Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu in 2011. ...
Oh Magog! Why End-Times Buffs Are Freaking Out About Syria | Mother Jones
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