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Old 04-04-2012, 09:53   #1
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Other self defense shootings drawing parallels to Trayvon Martin's

Atlanta family says son's shooting death is like that of Trayvon Martin | jacksonville.com

Questions surround actions of security guard who shot unarmed teen *| ajc.com

Both cases involve black teens (one who was definitely unarmed) who were shot by security guards, and now they are drawing parallels to the Martin case. Although they are not gaining any attention in the national media, or public support.

The top case Canard Arnold was shot in the back by a security guard, but it has been reported that a weapon (possibly his wouldn't want to try to sway the public opinion like the rest of the media) was found near his body and that he may have fired in the direction of the security guard.

The ladder case is of Ervin Jefferson, 18 who was shot while approaching a security guard who was well out of his jurisdiction investigating a fist fight near Jefferson's home.

First off how has the Trayvon shooting set a precedent for other shooting cases when it hasn't even been tried? And most concerning is why hasn't the media or the public taken interest in these cases like they have the Martin shooting? There are similarities but the big difference is that both black males were shot by security guards, and in the second case the shooter was black. There is no doubt a double standard here and this illustrates how the difference in race of the two shooters is what is driving this case. Also the fact that Zimmerman isn't with law enforcement or security (although he is licensed to carry) makes this case a scapegoat for all other seemingly unjust shootings that occur by law enforcement. It is obvious that Zimmerman is basically being blamed for every self defense shooting that has gone unpunished or unnoticed over the last decade. This case is going to set (if it already hasn't) a horrible precedent for armed citizens all over the country. You can basically forget about defending yourself against a young black male who has entered your home illegally, or you will end up like Zimmerman.
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Old 04-04-2012, 14:44   #2
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Clearly, this will be a summer loaded with angst from the anti-gun, Black Racists and other groups who want to keep Obama in power, and will grasp at any opportunity to stir up his voting bases, and get out them out to vote.

Beyond that?

Obama, and the rest don't give one crap about these kids and why they were shot.

Do you think that anyone, of any color who tried to attack the Presidents Security Detail for example, would not be shot? LOL

Hypocrites!

It's not okay for you, the citizens to defend yourselves, but please ignore the multiple armed guards I have to keep me safe from anyone, including anyone of color/race etc...

When Obama, or anyone on the left is willing to go around with unarmed guards, I'll consider what they have to say with some merit, but for now, they are, as usual, HYPOCRITES.
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Old 04-04-2012, 18:22   #3
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The libs are turning up the volume on the "white guilt" propaganda machine. An election is coming up in November and you gotta get votes how ever you can, ya know.
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Old 04-04-2012, 19:55   #4
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The public is setting itself up for a big let down, or a rude awakening as I'd call it. This case is walk in the park for a good lawyer. The burden lies with the prosecution to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman killed Martin outside of the law. The only charge they could get to stick would be manslaughter and I doubt that will happen. So if this case ends up like I think it will what precedent will that set?

The majority of people I know who think Zimmerman is guilty base that idea on the belief that he had no right to follow Martin to begin with. That assumption is wrong as he lives in a gated community, and he probably knows almost everyone who lives and belongs there. Also there had been several breakins over the last few years, including one that Zimmerman helped foil. His suspicion of Martin was warranted and it isn't against the law to scrutinize someone in your neighborhood (especially a gated one).

Also people say that the 911 dispatcher instructed Zimmerman not to pursue Martin, but that is not on the tape. He tells Zimmerman that "we don't need you to do that." Which is not a direct order and it isn't against the law either. Besides he probably wanted to maintain a line of sight with him so that he could direct the police upon arrival. That is the other thing that doesn't make sense to me, why would Zimmerman call the police if he knew he was going to take matters into his own hands, or commit a crime or a hate crime? Knowing the police were on their way would make him less likely to initiate a confrontation, or murder the suspect in cold blood (like some opponents propose). The whole thing doesn't add up, and I don't even need all of the facts to judge this one. The real problem lies with the proposed changes to the stand your ground law in FL and other applicable states in the country.
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Old 04-05-2012, 04:14   #5
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Originally Posted by higgite View Post
The libs are turning up the volume on the "white guilt" propaganda machine. An election is coming up in November and you gotta get votes how ever you can, ya know.
And it just so happens to be perfect timing, to keep peoples attention away from the Supreme Court.
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Old 04-06-2012, 04:46   #6
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All the facts are not out yet. There was a real rush to judgement in the media and that is now manifesting itself in riots, marches and other civil demonstrations, regardless of what the facts are. I'll repeat...all the facts and the discrepancies are NOT known at this time.

The police screwed up in not arresting George at the time. The FL. statute allowing capital force should be enforced through judicial process, ie a trial. Under the facts of THIS case, the police should have arrested George and let his "self-defense" be proven at a trial.

More facts are coming out daily. Because of all the media furor, the prosecution is taking it's time in preparing to take the case to a grand jury, making sure the prosecution has all it's t's dotted. Since the grand jury procedure is basically a prosecutor's playground, an indictment should issue, charging George with the appropriate crime. His conviction on a crime should come after a trial...NOT prosecuted in the media.

Personally, I have followed this case with interest. I have reserved judgement until after the trial. Then I'll say if I agree or not with the verdict . I won't base my opinion on whats in the media.
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Old 04-06-2012, 05:45   #7
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Well said

I hope good sense can prevail

Originally Posted by BangBangPlay View Post
The public is setting itself up for a big let down, or a rude awakening as I'd call it. This case is walk in the park for a good lawyer. The burden lies with the prosecution to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman killed Martin outside of the law. The only charge they could get to stick would be manslaughter and I doubt that will happen. So if this case ends up like I think it will what precedent will that set?

The majority of people I know who think Zimmerman is guilty base that idea on the belief that he had no right to follow Martin to begin with. That assumption is wrong as he lives in a gated community, and he probably knows almost everyone who lives and belongs there. Also there had been several breakins over the last few years, including one that Zimmerman helped foil. His suspicion of Martin was warranted and it isn't against the law to scrutinize someone in your neighborhood (especially a gated one).

Also people say that the 911 dispatcher instructed Zimmerman not to pursue Martin, but that is not on the tape. He tells Zimmerman that "we don't need you to do that." Which is not a direct order and it isn't against the law either. Besides he probably wanted to maintain a line of sight with him so that he could direct the police upon arrival. That is the other thing that doesn't make sense to me, why would Zimmerman call the police if he knew he was going to take matters into his own hands, or commit a crime or a hate crime? Knowing the police were on their way would make him less likely to initiate a confrontation, or murder the suspect in cold blood (like some opponents propose). The whole thing doesn't add up, and I don't even need all of the facts to judge this one. The real problem lies with the proposed changes to the stand your ground law in FL and other applicable states in the country.
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Old 04-06-2012, 06:37   #8
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You can basically forget about defending yourself against a young black male who has entered your home illegally, or you will end up like Zimmerman.
ok, i stay out of this forum for good reason, but this was just too hard to ignore.

how...exactly...do you come up with this conclusion? trayvon was entering someone's home? this makes NO sense!

i don't know every detail of this case, but it is disturbing to see how quickly everyone jumps to conclusions (and jumps on race issues).

i would have had to be there to know who is right or wrong myself. IF this zimmerman guy FOLLOWED this kid and shot him unarmed, he is a murderer. (unless this is property privately owned by zimmerman, and even then it is a little sketchy). IF this trayvon kid attacked zimmerman unprovoked, then this is a case of self defense. i don't know, i wasn't there, and you weren't either.

and i may be the only one who doesn't give a rat's ass about the color of these two. a teenage kid dead will always be a tragedy, even IF it is self defense.

BUT this has NOTHING, i repeat, NOTHING to do with entering anyone's home! you cannot even compare that to this situation. IF trayvon had entered zimmerman's home, this makes this case local news and nothing more, regardless of color.
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Old 04-06-2012, 08:20   #9
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Originally Posted by hawkguy View Post
ok, i stay out of this forum for good reason, but this was just too hard to ignore.

how...exactly...do you come up with this conclusion? trayvon was entering someone's home? this makes NO sense!

i don't know every detail of this case, but it is disturbing to see how quickly everyone jumps to conclusions (and jumps on race issues).

i would have had to be there to know who is right or wrong myself. IF this zimmerman guy FOLLOWED this kid and shot him unarmed, he is a murderer. (unless this is property privately owned by zimmerman, and even then it is a little sketchy). IF this trayvon kid attacked zimmerman unprovoked, then this is a case of self defense. i don't know, i wasn't there, and you weren't either.

and i may be the only one who doesn't give a rat's ass about the color of these two. a teenage kid dead will always be a tragedy, even IF it is self defense.

BUT this has NOTHING, i repeat, NOTHING to do with entering anyone's home! you cannot even compare that to this situation. IF trayvon had entered zimmerman's home, this makes this case local news and nothing more, regardless of color.
Read this: http://www.clickorlando.com/news/Flo...2/-/index.html

Read the entire 6 post thread before calling me out. I am referring to the precedent this case has already set even though Zimmerman hasn't been charged. The only conclusion that I have jumped to is that Zimmerman is innocent until proven guilty, even if he is charged. The media, you, and I don't know what happened that night. But I do know the law, and I do know that proving that Zimmerman acted outside of the law will be very difficult.

Some members of the House of Reps have already moved to take action against the law, even though it is unclear if any law was broken or if there is indeed an injustice. Talk about taking action before the fact, or facts in this case. When Zimmerman isn't charged in 4 days the attention will turn to the law, and possibly the Sanford PD. If the stand your ground law is repealed then any citizen who uses his weapon in his home (or where he has a right to be) will be guilty until proven innocent. Yes this case does apply to future cases and it's decision could be used to set the precedent for future self defense shootings. What if a black intruder enters your home unarmed, and attacks you when you confront him? You shoot, and he's dead without a weapon. Will the law protect you? Will you be given the benefit of the doubt? Will your word that he attacked you be good enough to avoid a trial? If altered enough the stand your ground law could come to aid criminals, thieves, or anyone breaking the law instead of protecting the law abiding citizen in the future.

Although this case may not apply to home invasions it could set the precedent necessary to change our rights in the future and make it more difficult to protect ourselves without being locked up, or scrutinized by the mainstream media.
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Old 04-06-2012, 09:25   #10
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What bothers me most about this, is the willingness of the media and the "Race-Baiters" to be using incidents like this to fan the political flames (notice how they are also hammering Republican prejudice against women as a political weapon).

Simple minds that would otherwise be semi-conscious, are now being galvanized to take their marching orders from the NWO (represented by the Mainstream Media). Full scale riots (during the "Long, Hot Summer") will result in the declaration of Marshal Law, just in time to halt the elections later this year. The main goal of this regime has obviously been the re-distribution of wealth and power (Hope & Change).

Although I was in my tweens, I witnessed (via local news) the race riots in Cleveland, Oh. during the '60s. Later in life, I met older guys that were there in different capacities. One retired LEO friend said the body count for dissident snipers was double digit. A few years later I missed the Kent State Massacre because my friend's car wasn't running. Events like these occuring today would surely be the tipping point the NWO has been waiting for.

The willingness to divide the country along racial lines (especially those that demonize the White race) cannot be condoned. The current regime does not speak out against the media race-baiting, thus encouraging it further and further.

Daily I see quite a few "People of Color" (is that the new PC term ?) that I respect and would likely befriend if our paths crossed more closely. I truly HATE to think that the current regime is hastening (planning?) the day when a man's skin color will cause him to be judged about what "side" he is on.
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Old 04-06-2012, 09:41   #11
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Originally Posted by BangBangPlay View Post
Read this: Florida task force told 'stand your ground' law confusing | News - Home

Read the entire 6 post thread before calling me out. I am referring to the precedent this case has already set even though Zimmerman hasn't been charged. The only conclusion that I have jumped to is that Zimmerman is innocent until proven guilty, even if he is charged. The media, you, and I don't know what happened that night. But I do know the law, and I do know that proving that Zimmerman acted outside of the law will be very difficult.

Some members of the House of Reps have already moved to take action against the law, even though it is unclear if any law was broken or if there is indeed an injustice. Talk about taking action before the fact, or facts in this case. When Zimmerman isn't charged in 4 days the attention will turn to the law, and possibly the Sanford PD. If the stand your ground law is repealed then any citizen who uses his weapon in his home (or where he has a right to be) will be guilty until proven innocent. Yes this case does apply to future cases and it's decision could be used to set the precedent for future self defense shootings. What if a black intruder enters your home unarmed, and attacks you when you confront him? You shoot, and he's dead without a weapon. Will the law protect you? Will you be given the benefit of the doubt? Will your word that he attacked you be good enough to avoid a trial? If altered enough the stand your ground law could come to aid criminals, thieves, or anyone breaking the law instead of protecting the law abiding citizen in the future.

Although this case may not apply to home invasions it could set the precedent necessary to change our rights in the future and make it more difficult to protect ourselves without being locked up, or scrutinized by the mainstream media.
ok, i apologize if it seemed i "called you out" i wasn't trying to be disrespectful & you have every right to your opinion.

it was how you stated the last line i had a problem with. i think the "stand your ground" law makes sense on privately owned property ONLY. an apartmant complex/neiborhood is NOT privately owned, unless you persoanlly own the property.

however, i think this law DOES NOT allow citizens to harrass others or follow them looking for trouble under the badge of "neighborhood watch"....which might have been the case in this instance.

zimmerman has not been arrested yet, so obviously he is being considered innocent before guilty in this case.

and you must also realize there is an equal chance the unarmed victim in this case was innocent as well.
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Old 04-07-2012, 15:07   #12
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Originally Posted by hawkguy View Post
ok, i stay out of this forum for good reason, but this was just too hard to ignore.

how...exactly...do you come up with this conclusion? trayvon was entering someone's home? this makes NO sense!
No, Trayvon punched Zimmerman in the nose, knocked him to the ground, then jumped on him, and was pounding his head into the concrete when he was shot by Zimmerman in self defense.
i don't know every detail of this case, but it is disturbing to see how quickly everyone jumps to conclusions (and jumps on race issues).
The facts I just listed are clearly supported by a wittness, and are consistant with what Zimmerman claims as well. And it's why the PD did not arrest him after taking him in, questioning him, and decided they did not have grounds to charge him with any crime under Florida laws.
i would have had to be there to know who is right or wrong myself. IF this zimmerman guy FOLLOWED this kid and shot him unarmed, he is a murderer.That is complete balderdash, and only your opinion, there is ZERO law to support your opinion too. (unless this is property privately owned by zimmerman, and even then it is a little sketchy). IF this trayvon kid attacked zimmerman unprovoked, then this is a case of self defense. i don't know, i wasn't there, and you weren't either.
All I know is that I've read and listened to the witness who said Trayvon was attacking Zimmerman, says Z was calling for help, and the Witt. ran back inside their home, called 911, ran upstairs and heard the shot, and upon looking out, saw the guy in the red (Zimmerman) standing over the dude in the hoodie (Trayvon) who was laying on the ground.

So, anyone, with even an ounce of common sense, can put 2+2 and get 4.

Travyon attacked, and Zimmerman defended himself.

Case closed in my view.


and i may be the only one who doesn't give a rat's ass about the color of these two. a teenage kid dead will always be a tragedy, even IF it is self defense.I don't agree, it's one less punk dumbass kid in my view. Trayvon's 3 suspensions, and gang style photos of himself don't do him any favors in winning my support for him being just another kid.

BUT this has NOTHING, i repeat, NOTHING to do with entering anyone's home! you cannot even compare that to this situation. IF trayvon had entered zimmerman's home, this makes this case local news and nothing more, regardless of color.
On that I agree.

But the reality is, the FL law, does not only apply to your home. You should read it, it's called STAND YOUR GROUND for a reason. It's not called Defend your home, or even stand your ground in your home...
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Old 04-07-2012, 22:25   #13
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Sorry for starting this confusion here. I was drawing the conclusion that the stand your ground law would be repealed limiting self defense only to your home. Also I felt that the new laws would make it almost impossible to defend yourself in your home or property without proving yourself innocent, instead of the other way around.

Interesting that up until a few days ago nobody has drawn a parallel to the Joe Horn shooting in Texas a few years back. He was acquitted by a jury of his piers for defending himself although the police officer told him not to engage the burglars almost 12 times. He shot two unarmed dark hispanic burglars in the back with a shotgun as they crossed his front lawn trying to escape from a neighbor's house. I only bring this case up because Zimmerman committed a more justified act of self defense, even though he wasn't on his property, and you could argue that Trayvon wasn't breaking the law either. Joe wasn't attacked and probably didn't fear for his life, but he acted within the law, and that applies here too. The facts speak for themselves here, there is not enough evidence to prove that Zimmerman acted outside the law. Disregarding a warning not to engage a suspicious person isn't against the law, no matter who the authority is. When they don't charge him next week people will turn their attention to the law and continue their crusade down that route.
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Old 04-08-2012, 07:23   #14
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I think that this was just a case of an attack that ended with a gunshot !

The attacker died and the attacked person survived , cause he had a loaded gun .

It's simple , a gun can save lives , end of story here !
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Old 04-08-2012, 07:45   #15
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Originally Posted by Carpshooter View Post
I think that this was just a case of an attack that ended with a gunshot !

The attacker died and the attacked person survived , cause he had a loaded gun .

It's simple , a gun can save lives , end of story here !
Great...glad that's all wrapped-up.

Now, can you explain that to the Usurper-in-Chief? Or, Al Not-so-Sharpton? Or, Jesse Blackson?
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Old 04-08-2012, 07:48   #16
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Originally Posted by 2dumb2kwit View Post
And it just so happens to be perfect timing, to keep peoples attention away from the Supreme Court.
+1!

2dumb is spot-on, and this is what I've been saying for weeks.

Remember, when it comes to politics...ESPECIALLY WITH BARRY'S ADMINISTRATION....there are NO coincidences!

Period!
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Old 04-08-2012, 09:59   #17
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Originally Posted by Paco View Post
+1!

2dumb is spot-on, and this is what I've been saying for weeks.

Remember, when it comes to politics...ESPECIALLY WITH BARRY'S ADMINISTRATION....there are NO coincidences!

Period!
Democratic policy;never let a good tragedy go to waste,and "wag the dog"!Typical of capitol hill!
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