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Old 08-08-2011, 06:37   #1
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Peak oil - myth or fact?

here is a topic that is always fun to discuss. so will peak oil ever be reached? has it already been reached? what will happen after it is reached?

what are your opinions on this issue?

here is the wiki link for those of you who want to bone up on the subject first:
Peak oil - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 08-08-2011, 09:24   #2
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It's a renewable resource. And the life blood of all economies, there is nothing that oil does not touch!
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Old 08-08-2011, 09:47   #3
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If liberals have their way, peak oil will never be reached. If realists have their way, it will be reached.

If and when it ever is reached, and decline sets in, with accompanying sky high prices, then and only then will development of "alternative" fuel sources get serious. Because, then and only then will alternatives be economically competitive (for the consumer) with O&G.
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Old 08-08-2011, 11:54   #4
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Originally Posted by bquick View Post
It's a renewable resource. And the life blood of all economies, there is nothing that oil does not touch!
i do not think oil is a renewable resource.

I do agree that we will not see any real innovation in alternative energy until oil prices start to rise thus making alternative energy competitive. I do think that some folks are too optimistic about the rate at which viable alternative energy sources will advance technologically after oil prices spike. Thus i think we are already behind the curve whether peak oil has occurred yet or not.

moreover, if we do not invest more in alternative energy research the oil companies will be able to demand and receive exorbitant prices for a long time after oil prices have skyrocketed. this will not be good for all the suburbanite commuters in the US (or the economy/us businesses/etc/etc). Europe will probably fair better due to infrastructure and cities that were in place long before the age of the automobile...as will many other 'undeveloped countries'

it is an interesting eventuality to hypothesize upon.
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Old 08-08-2011, 13:10   #5
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Mad Max.... the Road Warrior and the precious juice. A house of cards only stands until the first windstorm. Should we seek alternative forms of energy? defintately; but there is more oil out there than we can use in many lifetimes; renewable or not!
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Old 08-08-2011, 13:17   #6
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I agree that there is plenty of oil for this country. There is plenty here if we could just get and use it. Other sources of energy is basically in its infancy and more research and development needs to be done but in the mean time we should use the oil thats here and stop relying on other people to supply us. I think we could create jobs and be more self reliant if we wanted to.
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Old 08-08-2011, 13:20   #7
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If the U.S. Government doesn't get off it rear end and allow drilling to start yesterday then we will not have to worry about reaching our peak oil limit. Alternative energy is nothing more than a driver toward bankruptcy. If we want to raise revenue then allow drilling and production any and every place possible. Talking about putting people to work and bringing in more revenue for whoever is in power to spend they could have a field day. And before the environmental tree huggers and such get started who is more important the people and finances of this country or some plant, frog, fish, etc. Oil production can be environmental friendly. This country finances is headed to hell in a handbasket if our so called leaders don't get their heads out of their a$$e$
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Old 08-08-2011, 13:54   #8
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Originally Posted by maydelleeagle View Post
If the U.S. Government doesn't get off it rear end and allow drilling to start yesterday then we will not have to worry about reaching our peak oil limit. Alternative energy is nothing more than a driver toward bankruptcy. If we want to raise revenue then allow drilling and production any and every place possible. Talking about putting people to work and bringing in more revenue for whoever is in power to spend they could have a field day. And before the environmental tree huggers and such get started who is more important the people and finances of this country or some plant, frog, fish, etc. Oil production can be environmental friendly. This country finances is headed to hell in a handbasket if our so called leaders don't get their heads out of their a$$e$


there are not enough proven resources here to last the country a few days. peak oil in the US occurred in 1970 or thereabouts. regardless, oil is an international market and domestic sources will not lower domestic prices and there are not enough proven resources here to impact the international oil markets. there are huge shale oil deposits in Utah, Montana, Colorado but there is no cost effective way to extract the oil yet (actually it is kerogen and not truly crude oil).

i do not see how alternative energy sources drive anyone toward bankruptcy. please explain?

us oil consumption is the source of many of the woes listed in this forum. our foreign policy has been and will continue to be driven by oil addiction. we consume roughly 25% of world oil production and make up only a few percent of the total world population. It is a real shame that our nation is so in debt to china when we will eventually begin competing against them for increasingly limited oil resources. i think oil dependency will drive us to bankruptcy long before 'treehuggers', 'marxists', and alternative energy get a chance...
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Old 08-08-2011, 14:09   #9
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and



and

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Old 08-08-2011, 14:11   #10
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Evidently you haven't read of the oil/gas reserves in the U.S. and offshore, also i should have included natural gas and coal in my response. I say the alternative energy sources will drive us to bankruptcy because of their costs to make, they are ineffective compared to natural resources, look at what our government "donates" to companies that are in the alternative energy business. Guess you only paid attention to words that caught your eye I said oil/gas production can be environmentally friendly. Where did marxists come from. I will go back and say again what and who is more important people and our country's economic outlook or being progressive by using alternative energy.
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Old 08-08-2011, 14:19   #11
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Originally Posted by bitstream5 View Post
there are not enough proven resources here to last the country a few days. peak oil in the US occurred in 1970 or thereabouts. regardless, oil is an international market and domestic sources will not lower domestic prices and there are not enough proven resources here to impact the international oil markets. there are huge shale oil deposits in Utah, Montana, Colorado but there is no cost effective way to extract the oil yet (actually it is kerogen and not truly crude oil).

i do not see how alternative energy sources drive anyone toward bankruptcy. please explain?

us oil consumption is the source of many of the woes listed in this forum. our foreign policy has been and will continue to be driven by oil addiction. we consume roughly 25% of world oil production and make up only a few percent of the total world population. It is a real shame that our nation is so in debt to china when we will eventually begin competing against them for increasingly limited oil resources. i think oil dependency will drive us to bankruptcy long before 'treehuggers', 'marxists', and alternative energy get a chance...
We're already going bankrupt thanks to liberalism, oil had nothing to do with it.
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Old 08-08-2011, 14:28   #12
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I think there is plenty of oil for this country right here in America.
Oil reserves in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Massive Oil Deposit Could Increase US reserves by 10x

U.S. HAS MASSIVE OIL

U.S. Contains Enough Oil and Gas Reserves to Fuel Country for Decades, Petroleum Institute Says | CNSnews.com
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Old 08-08-2011, 15:00   #13
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your information may be a bit dated. Bakken is thought to have 3-4 billion barrels:
http://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/2008/3021/pdf/FS08-3021_508.pdf
Bakken is still not producing that much oil and it has been years since the initial discovery

the us imports ~10-15 million barrels of oil a day so that means Bakken may supply enough oil to last a year give or take if we went entirely domestic. regardless, it would not be domestic use only, it would be dumped into the world markets to generate profits for the oil companies who extract it and do little if anything to affect prices.

with regard to the shale deposits - there is no commercially viable or efficient way to extract all that kerogen (it is not crude oil).

some more interesting tidbits: "Net imports of oil and products account for nearly half of the US trade deficit. As of 2007, the US consumed 20.68m bbls of petroleum products/day and imported a net 12.04m bbls/day. The EIA reports the United States "Dependence on Net Petroleum Imports" as 58.2%." Energy Information Agency, (EIA) (2007). "Petroleum Basic Statistics". U.S. Department of Energy. Oil: Crude and Petroleum Products - Energy Explained, Your Guide To Understanding Energy. Retrieved 2008-08-17.

the cns news is not what i would consider a credible source. " About Us:
CNSNews.com was launched on June 16, 1998 as a news source for individuals, news organizations and broadcasters who put a higher premium on balance than spin and seek news that’s ignored or under-reported as a result of media bias by omission....p...Study after study by the Media Research Center, the parent organization of CNSNews.com, clearly demonstrate a liberal bias in many news outlets – bias by commission and bias by omission – that results in a frequent double-standard in editorial decisions on what constitutes "news.""

oh yeah lets hear Media Research Center's (MRC) statement about itself:..."The MRC raises its funds each year solely from private sources including individuals, foundations, and corporations....p...As "America's Media Watchdog," the MRC seeks to bring balance to the news media. Leaders of America's conservative movement have long believed that within the national news media a strident liberal bias existed that influenced the public's understanding of critical issues." LOL

don't you get the fact that when a news sources starts off by touting how unbiased they are etc that this is your first clue to question every last thing you hear from them and believe very little of it? (stupid question for this crowd i know). CNS is no more than another right wing sound board and confusion/propaganda machine.
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Old 08-08-2011, 15:06   #14
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Originally Posted by maydelleeagle View Post
Evidently you haven't read of the oil/gas reserves in the U.S. and offshore, also i should have included natural gas and coal in my response. I say the alternative energy sources will drive us to bankruptcy because of their costs to make, they are ineffective compared to natural resources, look at what our government "donates" to companies that are in the alternative energy business. Guess you only paid attention to words that caught your eye I said oil/gas production can be environmentally friendly. Where did marxists come from. I will go back and say again what and who is more important people and our country's economic outlook or being progressive by using alternative energy.
pray tell about the us reserves you speak of...if i am misinformed i will certainly change my mind to fit the facts and not change the facts to fit my mind

i was focused primarily on crude oil but if you would like to distinguish coal/natural gas > sources/uses/consumption rates/etc for discussion that would be an interesting discussion too.
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Old 08-08-2011, 15:11   #15
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Originally Posted by bitstream5 View Post
your information may be a bit dated. Bakken is thought to have 3-4 billion barrels:
http://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/2008/3021/pdf/FS08-3021_508.pdf
Bakken is still not producing that much oil and it has been years since the initial discovery

the us imports ~10-15 million barrels of oil a day so that means Bakken may supply enough oil to last a year give or take if we went entirely domestic. regardless, it would not be domestic use only, it would be dumped into the world markets to generate profits for the oil companies who extract it and do little if anything to affect prices.

with regard to the shale deposits - there is no commercially viable or efficient way to extract all that kerogen (it is not crude oil).

some more interesting tidbits: "Net imports of oil and products account for nearly half of the US trade deficit. As of 2007, the US consumed 20.68m bbls of petroleum products/day and imported a net 12.04m bbls/day. The EIA reports the United States "Dependence on Net Petroleum Imports" as 58.2%." Energy Information Agency, (EIA) (2007). "Petroleum Basic Statistics". U.S. Department of Energy. Oil: Crude and Petroleum Products - Energy Explained, Your Guide To Understanding Energy. Retrieved 2008-08-17.

the cns news is not what i would consider a credible source. " About Us:
CNSNews.com was launched on June 16, 1998 as a news source for individuals, news organizations and broadcasters who put a higher premium on balance than spin and seek news that’s ignored or under-reported as a result of media bias by omission....p...Study after study by the Media Research Center, the parent organization of CNSNews.com, clearly demonstrate a liberal bias in many news outlets – bias by commission and bias by omission – that results in a frequent double-standard in editorial decisions on what constitutes "news.""

oh yeah lets hear Media Research Center's (MRC) statement about itself:..."The MRC raises its funds each year solely from private sources including individuals, foundations, and corporations....p...As "America's Media Watchdog," the MRC seeks to bring balance to the news media. Leaders of America's conservative movement have long believed that within the national news media a strident liberal bias existed that influenced the public's understanding of critical issues." LOL

don't you get the fact that when a news sources starts off by touting how unbiased they are etc that this is your first clue to question every last thing you hear from them and believe very little of it? (stupid question for this crowd i know). CNS is no more than another right wing sound board and confusion/propaganda machine.
They're very credible news sources, much more so then the cackling liberal skirts screeching lies to people everyday on alphabet networks, besides these alternative news outlets give sources and don't make false claims about which side of the isle they're on.

Your liberal news media goes to great extents to falsify and deny their bias and propaganda.
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Old 08-08-2011, 15:13   #16
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Originally Posted by bitstream5 View Post
pray tell about the us reserves you speak of...if i am misinformed i will certainly change my mind to fit the facts and not change the facts to fit my mind

i was focused primarily on crude oil but if you would like to distinguish coal/natural gas > sources/uses/consumption rates/etc for discussion that would be an interesting discussion too.
If it's just "fossil" fuel as you claim, should it not be spread throughout the globe fairly evenly?

Put down the booze bottle and crack pipe so your head clears out a bit.
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Old 08-08-2011, 15:17   #17
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Originally Posted by Dirty Harry View Post
If it's just "fossil" fuel as you claim, should it not be spread throughout fairly evenly?

Put down the booze bottle and crack pipe so your head clears out a bit.
that is possibly the most asinine argument (if it can be called that) i have heard from you to date muddy hairy. of course, there is some pretty stiff competition for that award so i can't be sure you have outdone yourself yet.

as i have said elsewhere...
sorry muddy hairy, but you are so adept at ignoring/skewing/twisting facts and general self-delusional tendencies that i have given up on you entirely. no offense.

i am counting on you to go out there and convert more publicans to independents as your wild n' crazy wingnuttery drives decent, freethinking folks toward the middle in an effort to dissociate themselves as much as possible from you and your ilk.
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Old 08-08-2011, 15:23   #18
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Originally Posted by bitstream5 View Post
that is possibly the most asinine argument (if it can be called that) i have heard from you to date muddy hairy. of course, there is some pretty stiff competition for that award so i can't be sure you have outdone yourself yet.

as i have said elsewhere...
sorry muddy hairy, but you are so adept at ignoring/skewing/twisting facts and general self-delusional tendencies that i have given up on you entirely. no offense.

i am counting on you to go out there and convert more publicans to independents as your wild n' crazy wingnuttery drives decent, freethinking folks toward the middle in an effort to dissociate themselves as much as possible from you and your ilk.
Still no answer?
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Old 08-08-2011, 15:34   #19
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Originally Posted by Dirty Harry View Post
Still no answer?
answer to what question?

re-post>>>
lol, it has already been provided here and in other threads but you are either too dense to comprehend it or to much of a wingnut to care about scientific evidence and facts.

i dont mind debating facts or opinions with you but you need to learn to rely on credible scientific sources and how to debate in the first place. unfortunately, this wont happen because in your 'mental' world all of the scientists are part of a huge liberal/marxist conspiracy and not scientists at all unless limbaugh or beck tells you they are. (i could probably find a fairly convincing article blaming limbaugh for global warming if i tried but that doesnt make it so). and your idea of a good argument in debate is "i am right and you are wrong". that just doesnt cut it.

like i said, i have given up on you and will not waste my time responding to many of your requests for 'proof' when there is no 'proof' that you have read or understand any of the information previously provided here or in other threads on the subject.

you havent made a single cogent argument in any thread that i have read. you simply issue wingnut diatribe and ignore efforts to engage in actual discussion or debate while occasionally spewing out half-cocked "research" from questionable/non-scientific/non peer-reviewed sources who are funded by your wingnut propaganda machine and its beneficiaries to fool suckers just like you.
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Old 08-08-2011, 15:40   #20
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Originally Posted by bitstream5 View Post
answer to what question?

re-post>>>
lol, it has already been provided here and in other threads but you are either too dense to comprehend it or to much of a wingnut to care about scientific evidence and facts.

i dont mind debating facts or opinions with you but you need to learn to rely on credible scientific sources and how to debate in the first place. unfortunately, this wont happen because in your 'mental' world all of the scientists are part of a huge liberal/marxist conspiracy and not scientists at all unless limbaugh or beck tells you they are. (i could probably find a fairly convincing article blaming limbaugh for global warming if i tried but that doesnt make it so). and your idea of a good argument in debate is "i am right and you are wrong". that just doesnt cut it.

like i said, i have given up on you and will not waste my time responding to many of your requests for 'proof' when there is no 'proof' that you have read or understand any of the information previously provided here or in other threads on the subject.

you havent made a single cogent argument in any thread that i have read. you simply issue wingnut diatribe and ignore efforts to engage in actual discussion or debate while occasionally spewing out half-cocked "research" from questionable/non-scientific/non peer-reviewed sources who are funded by your wingnut propaganda machine and its beneficiaries to fool suckers just like you.
When you have proof to back up your silly liberal claims I may read it, googling up crap written and claimed to by dead end sources is a waste of my superior intellect and I shall not waste it on you oh drunk one.
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Old 08-08-2011, 15:50   #21
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Originally Posted by Dirty Harry View Post
When you have proof to back up your silly liberal claims I may read it, googling up crap written and claimed to by dead end sources is a waste of my superior intellect and I shall not waste it on you oh drunk one.
i forgot to add that you always have to get in the last word and quickly resort to personal attacks on other posters' character...how very 'wingnut' of you.
to all you folks lost in the darkside of publican or liberal wingnuttery...come to middle, it will be ok, its not your fault, dont become another muddy hairy...lol
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Old 08-08-2011, 15:57   #22
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Originally Posted by bitstream5 View Post
pray tell about the us reserves you speak of...if i am misinformed i will certainly change my mind to fit the facts and not change the facts to fit my mind

i was focused primarily on crude oil but if you would like to distinguish coal/natural gas > sources/uses/consumption rates/etc for discussion that would be an interesting discussion too.
EIA estimates in Montana in the Balken formation enough oil there if can recover 50% of it would be more than anyone else has. Look at TruthorFiction.com to see.
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Old 08-08-2011, 16:25   #23
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Well 2bit just because you dont believe it doesnt make it so. I would believe any source before I would believe one you posted lefty.
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Old 08-08-2011, 16:27   #24
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Originally Posted by maydelleeagle View Post
EIA estimates in Montana in the Balken formation enough oil there if can recover 50% of it would be more than anyone else has. Look at TruthorFiction.com to see.
here is the link to the article on truthorfiction.com that you cite. truthorfiction.com also provides an example of the type of internet rumor that was circulated about the oil deposit.

they also cite the same us geological survey that i did in a previous post. but they do not add that the marathon oil corporation figures are taken from their website and investment fliers, which are used to raise capital for the company.

either way, 2009 production is stated to be 9-10 thousand barrels (of oil equivalents) per day while the US consumes nearly 20 million barrels of oil per day: Oil: Crude and Petroleum Products - Energy Explained, Your Guide To Understanding Energy

oil companies are trying to work out the production difficulties but so far no word on whether that will ever be economically feasible or even possible in light of consumption rates. even if production rates could be substantially increased i dont see how it could ever be enough to impact market prices, especially considering the expense of the additional refining etc that is involved.

i wish we could say that our oil problem was solved by the Bakken shale but it doesnt look to me like it will contribute much to the solution anytime soon.

however, it is an important fact to consider in the scheme of it all. thanks!
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Old 08-08-2011, 16:32   #25
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Originally Posted by qwman68 View Post
Well 2bit just because you dont believe it doesnt make it so. I would believe any source before I would believe one you posted lefty.
lol, thanks for the vote of confidence. i do try to restrict my sources to official and/or scientific, peer-reviewed sources as much as possible and try not to venture too far into the traps of relying on propaganda as the basis of my arguments for scientific matters.

i wish everyone would do the same or point out the weaknesses of a source with specific references (i.e. National Review is not as credible a source for scientific data and research as, say, the journal Science) rather than generalized your a liberal/marxist so you must be lying and your sources must be lies too and everything you say is part of some grand conspiracy
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