What I learned from yesterday's assassination attempt - Shooting Sports Forum


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Old 06-15-2017, 15:42   #1
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What I learned from yesterday's assassination attempt

As long as society holds together, keeping the family comfortable with guns and being a good shot may be plenty. But when it hits the fan, as it did for a few minutes in Alexandria yesterday, staying alive depends more heavily on tactics. One leftist with an SKS is no match for two cops with handguns.

On the other hand, I would certainly take a SEAL with ball point pen over those same two cops with handguns. Maybe not, but you get the point. What occurs to me is that no matter how many targets I can knock down or how tight my scout rifle groups at 200 yards off backpack prone, my family and I lose to superior tactics.

Time to adjust our training.
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Old 06-15-2017, 15:57   #2
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Training takes time in the field,and participants must have the ability to get dirty and have their hair and makeup get mussed up!Dirt and grass stains wash out/off fairly easily-blood/injury/death-not so much!
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Old 06-15-2017, 16:21   #3
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That's why police and military train train train! First to overcome the fear thought process, second to build muscle memory, and third so that their responses are conditioned as opposed to having to think about what to do next.

That's also why they train as a team, so that they all have the same conditioned responses; there's something to be said for team drill for sure. Like when I was in a band; we were all good musicians, but it took over a year before we played really well together, and after two years we all pretty much knew how the others thought musically and where they would go during a solo. It's the same with any team, as you grow together you go together better.

Tactics aren't everything though. were I by myself I would spend my time training on my opponent's tactics, how they think, and how they are trained to act in situations. I would prioritize this, and then develop my own tactics based upon my findings.

Or you could just be lazy like this perp was, watch TV, listen to the news, and think you know it all already.

And be dead by sundown.

Just like he was.
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Old 06-15-2017, 16:24   #4
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Problem with my take on the subject is who will our real opponents be? If we're lucky they will be ill prepared poorly trained over confident liberals just like this perp was.

If we're not, well, we'll be facing a much deadlier foe, that's all I care to say about it.
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Old 06-15-2017, 17:04   #5
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the attackers you imagine would melt away the first round of shooting - unless they were backed by bands of armed BLM activists, gangs, militant 'immigrants' and such. the police and guard may have their hands full.
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Old 06-15-2017, 17:12   #6
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Well after all Democracy is mob rule, and they keep calling us a Democracy!
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Old 06-15-2017, 17:21   #7
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Who said this?

The year was 2009:

“I have concerns about some of the language that is being used because I saw this myself in the late 70s in San Francisco,”... “This kind of rhetoric was very frightening and … it created a climate in which violence took place,”...“I wish that we would all, again, curb our enthusiasm in some of the statements that are made.”
Hints:

Congress critter.

Uses inflammatory rhetoric today.
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Old 06-15-2017, 17:24   #8
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Originally Posted by headedtotexas View Post
What occurs to me is that no matter how many targets I can knock down or how tight my scout rifle groups at 200 yards off backpack prone, my family and I lose to superior tactics.

Time to adjust our training.
Agree totally. Once someone gets familiar with their weapons and can hit targets at range, tactics and strategy should be next up on the list.

There are some other basic shoot training things too though like doing 25 or 30 push ups or squats and then see if you can still put rounds on a target in different positions and at what ranges you can still hit. It shrinks dramatically which is probably why this guy couldn't hit the side of a barn after his first rounds. With adrenaline going and heart rate up over 100 his aim was all over the place.

Probably shouldn't go any further in this sort of a discussion at this particular time on this but there is a lot more stuff even in just this one shooting incident.
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Old 06-15-2017, 18:44   #9
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Originally Posted by Parnelli View Post
Problem with my take on the subject is who will our real opponents be? If we're lucky they will be ill prepared poorly trained over confident liberals just like this perp was.
Depends how the next year or so goes. With an American in command of our military and state resources, I think the real talent will be on our side. But if the opposition party gets their stuff together and takes back the reins of the federal government, then we may see some of the real talent following orders.
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Old 06-15-2017, 19:32   #10
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I'm not really sure I can attribute the loss by loser-boy to a pair of cops with pistols as being purely tactics. Consider that loser-boy reckoned he was the only one with a gun so he walked in bold as brass and whoops, now he's getting return fire. Probably rattled his cage right and proper. Sure, better tactics would also involve scouting and recce to establish armed opposition and its placement, but even if loser-boy dropped one of the cops on the first shot, so long as the other one survived to return fire that cage-rattling was going to happen.

Tactically though, he really was a loser, you're right. Consider that the SKS with its 7.62x39 cartridge has a flatter trajectory than a 9x19 or .40 S&W, so its better for standoff range. Yet he engaged close in. Consider that the SKS with its 10 shot fixed mag is at a disadvantage to a 15 banger with detachables. If that dummy would have kept his distance and had a clear exit, he could have cacked his primary and didimau'd his posterior out of there. Instead he got what he deserved for being stupid and psychotic.

Then listen to the tape - you can hear the differences between the cops' fire and loser-boy's fire. First there are 10 shots, first 5 or so quick then the tempo slowed. Probably had buck fever and a target rich environment then had to slow up as his vics scattered. Cops on the other hand returned fire with a pretty quick tempo, starting as soon as loser-boy was reloading. My guess is that they established fire superiority on him using volume of fire - rattled his cage so thoroughly that he was playing defense, with police sirens approaching in the background.

Guess what I'm trying to say is that though the pathetic loser's tactics sucked, there was more to it than that. I'd bet good money that the guy was all offense, didn't have the right psychology to take fire and stay on mission.

Grumpy
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Old 06-15-2017, 20:45   #11
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I remember hearing that in a gunfight the average person will lose over 70% of their motor skills because of the stress involved, and their hands will become little better than flippers. That's why the professionals will train, train, and train some more until they get to the point where they don't even have to think about it. Just pulling your gun out and taking the safety off can be a challenge if you're freaking out.
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Old 06-15-2017, 20:48   #12
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Originally Posted by Momo View Post
I remember hearing that in a gunfight the average person will lose over 70% of their motor skills because of the stress involved, and their hands will become little better than flippers. That's why the professionals will train, train, and train some more until they get to the point where they don't even have to think about it. Just pulling your gun out and taking the safety off can be a challenge if you're freaking out.
Exactly. I'd bet good money that loser-boy's marksmanship skills went right out the window with the first round let off in his direction.

Grumpy
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Old 06-15-2017, 21:09   #13
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He probably started crying when the first shot fired in anger came in his direction and he realized things were going to end very badly for him. A despicable man dying a despicable death, how fitting for a leftie.
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Old 06-15-2017, 21:17   #14
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There was congressman Scalise's security detail on hand and they engaged the guy and held him down until the first police responders got there.

Looking at the cell phone video, it looks like they did a basic flank and crossfire on guy. The first group fires and keeps the guy down until the cross fire is in place and then boom, you're dead. This tactic has been used since people ran around swinging swords and shooting bows and arrows. It still works.

A lone shooter like that, even an evil one if he had any brains, would set up at further distance and also a higher vantage point like maybe the roof of the Y across the street(just a guess, I haven't looked at it). A suppressor would have helped prevent him from being located as fast also. The Y could have provided him an exit if he had set up right. He didn't have a vest either so it doesn't appear that he cared whether he got killed or not. I can't fathom someone getting to such a point in their life as that.

I'm glad this evil person had no brains or possibly more people would have gotten hurt.
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Old 06-15-2017, 21:19   #15
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I suppose there's no way of knowing until after an autopsy. The guy could have been running on liquid courage or something else just as bad.
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Old 06-16-2017, 13:35   #16
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This shows that training, training, training - as well as a sense of purpose and calm under fire will always trump random shooting by a deranged lunatic.

But the first few shots are to the BG, usually. We were fortunate that in this case the BG was a crap shooter. Rep Scalise and family would probably disagree, though, as would I.

Security detail with long guns (at least carbines), might have neutralized this threat earlier.

Counlda shoulda woulda...

Big Cowboy Hats off to the Congressional Police shooters! They (very much including the female shooter) showed gonads the size of bowling balls.

Somehow, I think those two shooters will become best-buddies with the House members and their families(at least the GOPers). Well deserved.

Seems to me, part of the in-processing of congress members should include issuance of a firearm and a week or two of intensive training (as well as universal CC). As many "vacations" as they take, the first week or so of their "vacation" should be re-validation of firearms proficiency in a threat environment.

Would love to see Nancy even touching a firearm. She's probably burst into flames...
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Old 06-16-2017, 14:02   #17
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Originally Posted by hottarod View Post
There was congressman Scalise's security detail on hand and they engaged the guy and held him down until the first police responders got there.

Looking at the cell phone video, it looks like they did a basic flank and crossfire on guy. The first group fires and keeps the guy down until the cross fire is in place and then boom, you're dead. This tactic has been used since people ran around swinging swords and shooting bows and arrows. It still works.

A lone shooter like that, even an evil one if he had any brains, would set up at further distance and also a higher vantage point like maybe the roof of the Y across the street(just a guess, I haven't looked at it). A suppressor would have helped prevent him from being located as fast also. The Y could have provided him an exit if he had set up right. He didn't have a vest either so it doesn't appear that he cared whether he got killed or not. I can't fathom someone getting to such a point in their life as that.

I'm glad this evil person had no brains or possibly more people would have gotten hurt.
Of course he had no brains. Libtard. That's all we need to know. If he had done his research, he would have used a 5.56/.223 or .308/7.62 NATO for increased lethality. 7.62x39 was designed as a wounding round, so that more troops would be tied up evacuating their fellow, than shooting back. Also, a detach mag firearm would have definitely improved the tactical profile, buying him time to stay focused on the field of fire and the armed response. Not to knock the SKS ( I have one, and like it alot). I would never use it for an offensive mission. That is AR, AK, M14 territory. My 2c.
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Old 06-16-2017, 14:18   #18
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Thankful for the stupidity of this libtard. By the luck of his poor choices, and the security detail being there, no innocent lives were lost, and this fxcking nutbar paid the ultimate stupid tax price. Hopefully, the voters will remember what the non-stop appeal to vitriol by the Libtards is going to take the country in a bad direction. If they keep it up, there will eventually be a reactionary response for a law and order crack down. They will only have themselves to blame, when the head-cracking begins.
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Old 06-16-2017, 18:59   #19
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All were fortunate that this dirtbag was an idiot.

But please be cautious about providing future dirtbags with tips...

Just sayin'.
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Old 06-16-2017, 20:01   #20
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Mike Mah makes the point over and over that range shooting is target shooting and target shooting is a sport. Mike Mah does combat shooting and trains for combat shooting and specifically for a 3 man militia which he says will be the basic unit in a SHTF setting. Here he is talking about using AKs and ARs in relatively close combat shooting and how to train.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBqV...MOvZV&index=80

He has the same type of video for handguns and longer rifles, SKS, FAL, M1Grand, etc.
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Old 06-16-2017, 23:20   #21
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Originally Posted by RJF View Post
All were fortunate that this dirtbag was an idiot.

But please be cautious about providing future dirtbags with tips...

Just sayin'.
I doubt many dirtbags check into the PU. I'm not giving away the store to those who already know about firearms. But I understand your concerns.
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Old 06-17-2017, 06:55   #22
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Google searches always turn up results with PU. That's how I found this place.
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Old 06-17-2017, 18:05   #23
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I think that's the first time I heard someone call the 7.62x39 a wounding round. It's much less powerful than a 7.62 Nato or 7.62x54 but more than a 5.56/.223 round. Obama and the other conspirators would always call them high power military rifles but they are intermediate cartridges at best.

Mainstream (fake news) never gets it right. They keep calling the SKS used a few days ago an assault weapon or assault-style weapon whatever the F that's supposed to mean. Unless it's converted to use a detachable magazine, it's little more than a curio rifle considered obsolete by military standards. They haven't been made in what....60 years?

Almost a year ago, 5 of 6 Dallas police officers were killed in an ambush. The media said the sniper used a SKS....then later we were told he used a AK74. I'm not very familiar with the rifle other than the similarities to AK47s but I believe the 5.45 cartridge is even less powerful than the 5.56. I don't know where, how many times the LEOs were hit, or if they were wearing any kind of body armor.
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Old 06-17-2017, 21:11   #24
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Oh the irony of a leftist assassination attempt using a Soviet era rifle. Surely that's more than just coincidence?

Guess my point in all this is that it served as a wake up call to re-focus the family training on defensive tactics and strategy. The kooks are all fired up by their progressive masters and now on the move. Keep your powder dry, men.
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Old 06-17-2017, 23:35   #25
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Originally Posted by Parnelli View Post
The year was 2009:
Hints: Congress critter. Uses inflammatory rhetoric today.
I knew it had to be CA's Twit #1 or Twit #2. I think these are the people she was referring.
Pelosi Compares Tea Party Protesters To Nazis: 'They're Carrying Swastikas"
Someone forgot to tell Pelosi that Nazis were anti-capitalists. Socialist progressives of their day. Big government would make decisions for all. It began with disarmament of the general population to create a police state. Those who resisted or spoke out were locked up or terminated.

I remember a nut job that threatened her back in 2010. But that's the only one I'm aware.
Search - SFGate
Liberals are very selective about taking death threats seriously.
Liberals SILENT on Threats Against President Trump and Family | Truth Revolt
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