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Old 03-03-2012, 19:35   #1
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Kalifornia CQB Makeover

Time for a change - new stock and sling. Really like the look and feel of this setup.



Sold the B&C stock to a forum member...



Put this together a few year's back and it still impresses my brother's LEO buddies when we get together to plink...
- Custom muzzle brake blind pin welded for 16.25" OAL barrel.
- Custom mount with Aimpoint Comp-ML that allows iron sight use.
- Trigger job
- Bell & Carlson stock w/Krylon Fusion OD paint job.

Last edited by codger; 04-16-2012 at 17:43. Reason: content
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Old 03-03-2012, 19:46   #2
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that's a nice rig.
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Old 03-03-2012, 22:58   #3
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Nice rifle.

To be picky, co-witness means you can see the iron sights through the scope. It looks like you are using the side mount to allow viewing the iron sights under the scope, correct?
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Old 03-04-2012, 13:18   #4
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Correct you are sir, duly noted.
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Old 03-17-2012, 08:12   #5
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Sorry if this is a necro post but this caught my attention since I am in Cali and looking to go a simmilar route with my Mini RR. What mods/upgrades have you done? What are your groups like? I have been contemplating a re-barrel as a possibility, but I want to keep a threaded end for AR brakes so I can have some choices, but most of the after market re-barrels are more varmint based and less tactical... Thanks!
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Old 03-17-2012, 15:38   #6
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Originally Posted by bobgengeskahn View Post
Sorry if this is a necro post but this caught my attention since I am in Cali and looking to go a simmilar route with my Mini RR. What mods/upgrades have you done? What are your groups like? I have been contemplating a re-barrel as a possibility, but I want to keep a threaded end for AR brakes so I can have some choices, but most of the after market re-barrels are more varmint based and less tactical... Thanks!
On this mini I've had the barrel cut and a "custom" front sight/muzzle brake permanently attached for a 16.25" OAL. Haven't checked groups in a while but it definitely shoots tighter than stock and the dot hardly moves thanks to the brake. Besides the Aimpoint mount I modded from an Armson OEG, a trigger job and restock are about it (I've since went back to factory wood for a change). Last year I sold a Shilen heavy-barreled mini-14 with a bedded tigerstripe B&C stock, trigger work & 4-16x scope. That beauty would shoot about 1.5 MOA.

Barrel threading is a waste in Kalifornia and illegal in most all useful configurations (IMHO). Aftermarket barrels and installation are pretty pricey but if you have the funds - they do make a difference.
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Old 03-17-2012, 16:51   #7
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Can you PM me details on your custom brake? It looks like a modified Choate birdcage compensator. Here is what mine looks like -



For various reasons I am very interested in going to something like what you have.

Thanks!
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Old 03-17-2012, 17:03   #8
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Very nice setup. To the poster looking for a muzzle brake option, try checking out the Mo-Reaper. Let the vendor know you're from this forum and he'll even give you a discount. Originally I just wanted a muzzle brake but Mo-Reaper comes with a hooded front sight too. It's much better than the factory one. Once you get the stubborn factory sights off, installation is a breeze and requires no modification of the barrel
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Old 03-17-2012, 17:57   #9
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[QUOTE=codger;696245]

Codger... whats the thing on the gas block where a strut would go?
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Old 03-17-2012, 17:58   #10
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here's some CQB for ya
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Old 03-17-2012, 18:03   #11
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Whoa. Be careful - that's an illegal flashider setup in Kalifornia! But yes, mine started as a Choate and cut-off the flashider and threaded a brake in its place - kind of a project many years ago. As mentioned by gorenut, the Mo-Reaper seems to be the popular choice (for those who like a ring front sight). I could never get used it on an HK91 I used to shoot.

Originally Posted by JavaBrewer View Post
Can you PM me details on your custom brake? It looks like a modified Choate birdcage compensator. Here is what mine looks like -



For various reasons I am very interested in going to something like what you have.

Thanks!
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Old 03-17-2012, 18:05   #12
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Adaptor for a Versapod bipod.

[quote=whofarted;699142]
Originally Posted by codger View Post


Codger... whats the thing on the gas block where a strut would go?
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Old 03-17-2012, 18:07   #13
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thanks bud... thats a nice lookin CA rifle.. i would love to do sumtin like that to mine
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Old 03-17-2012, 18:14   #14
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Thanks all for the comments - just keeping it simple and functional...

Originally Posted by whofarted View Post
thanks bud... thats a nice lookin CA rifle.. i would love to do sumtin like that to mine
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Old 03-17-2012, 18:33   #15
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Originally Posted by codger View Post
Whoa. Be careful - that's an illegal flashider setup in Kalifornia! But yes, mine started as a Choate and cut-off the flashider and threaded a brake in its place - kind of a project many years ago. As mentioned by gorenut, the Mo-Reaper seems to be the popular choice (for those who like a ring front sight). I could never get used it on an HK91 I used to shoot.
My FFL insists the Choate is a "compensator" (as marketed by Choate) rather than a "flashhider". I am on Calguns and about 75% of the folks queried feel as you do. The others side with my FFL. I am going the safe route and will install a magazine lock (sold by Calguns member Seesm) for the interm. If you don't mind sharing who did the smithing (cut-off and threading) on your Mini? PM me the details if you prefer.

Lastly - how has the paint job held out on the stock? Love the color!
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Old 03-17-2012, 18:34   #16
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Come and get it
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Old 03-18-2012, 07:37   #17
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Originally Posted by codger View Post
On this mini I've had the barrel cut and a "custom" front sight/muzzle brake permanently attached for a 16.25" OAL. Haven't checked groups in a while but it definitely shoots tighter than stock and the dot hardly moves thanks to the brake. Besides the Aimpoint mount I modded from an Armson OEG, a trigger job and restock are about it (I've since went back to factory wood for a change).
What stock are you using? Your barrel mod sounds very close to what mine is at, although I think my barrel might be shorter and my brake a little longer.

Last year I sold a Shilen heavy-barreled mini-14 with a bedded tigerstripe B&C stock, trigger work & 4-16x scope. That beauty would shoot about 1.5 MOA.
Did you actually have good results with a Shilen? All the reviews I have seen and the 'theories' I have read about the Mini have basically discounted the Shilen as a very over priced gimmick that performs mediocre at best.

Barrel threading is a waste in Kalifornia and illegal in most all useful configurations (IMHO). Aftermarket barrels and installation are pretty pricey but if you have the funds - they do make a difference.
I was looking at an M4 build, but would rather do work on the mini. That said I'm probably willing to spend a little more than most. The reason I was thinking that a threaded A2 style barrel would be nice would be to fit AR brakes and add a small degree of tune-ability to it, at least in terms of handling...
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Old 03-18-2012, 11:34   #18
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As my name implies, I've been around longer than most (bought my first 1911, a Lightweight Commander in 1975) and observed many changes since that time. Initially, the Choate sight combo was advertised as a flashider until the Kalifornia law, then magically became a compensator. I just checked an old one in my parts bin, and unless they've changed - it won't be an effective muzzle brake. I see many devices falsely advertised as "MB"s that are obvious fakes. Now, mine has never been checked by an LEO, and I doubt they have a clue either. I'll have to ask my brother who's one for his opinion... But, a functional muzzle brake requires the exit hole to be as close to bullet diameter as possible to seal pressure and force the gasses through the ports to "compensate or brake" muzzle rise. The Choate's exit hole is large and has flashider style flutes rather than ports.

Rather than messing with a mag lock, why not replace the Choate with a permanently attached muzzle brake? I highly recommend: Daves metal Works
Dave can do whatever you want and he's done great work for me for since the late 80's. Nice guy too.

Regarding stock paint, I haven't shot it since applying the Krylon Fushion but based on reviews it supposed to be really durable. But being a typical "gun nut" I'm always looking change thinks so I swapped the BC stock for Ruger wood, and will probably sell the Bell & Carlson.

Originally Posted by JavaBrewer View Post
My FFL insists the Choate is a "compensator" (as marketed by Choate) rather than a "flashhider". I am on Calguns and about 75% of the folks queried feel as you do. The others side with my FFL. I am going the safe route and will install a magazine lock (sold by Calguns member Seesm) for the interm. If you don't mind sharing who did the smithing (cut-off and threading) on your Mini? PM me the details if you prefer.

Lastly - how has the paint job held out on the stock? Love the color!
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Old 03-18-2012, 12:01   #19
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Thanks for the link to Daves Metal Works. The website is pretty thin on info - is he in SoCal or NorCal? I would prefer someone I didn't have to ship things to.

My Mini is still in DROS so I can't follow up with pictures just yet but the seller pointed out that the exit hole on the Choate is near the bullet diameter. As it stands now the Choate sight and compensator are permanently attached (welded) as the barrel was cut down to make it a final 16.25" with the Choate installed. Replacing it would require a smith - but I would be interested in having the birdcage replaced with what your gun is sporting.

Thanks again.

Originally Posted by codger View Post
As my name implies, I've been around longer than most (bought my first 1911, a Lightweight Commander in 1975) and observed many changes since that time. Initially, the Choate sight combo was advertised as a flashider until the Kalifornia law, then magically became a compensator. I just checked an old one in my parts bin, and unless they've changed - it won't be an effective muzzle brake. I see many devices falsely advertised as "MB"s that are obvious fakes. Now, mine has never been checked by an LEO, and I doubt they have a clue either. I'll have to ask my brother who's one for his opinion... But, a functional muzzle brake requires the exit hole to be as close to bullet diameter as possible to seal pressure and force the gasses through the ports to "compensate or brake" muzzle rise. The Choate's exit hole is large and has flashider style flutes rather than ports.

Rather than messing with a mag lock, why not replace the Choate with a permanently attached muzzle brake? I highly recommend: Daves metal Works
Dave can do whatever you want and he's done great work for me for since the late 80's. Nice guy too.

Regarding stock paint, I haven't shot it since applying the Krylon Fushion but based on reviews it supposed to be really durable. But being a typical "gun nut" I'm always looking change thinks so I swapped the BC stock for Ruger wood, and will probably sell the Bell & Carlson.
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Old 03-18-2012, 12:06   #20
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It's a Bell & Carlson stock - I've had a few and like them the best of all the synthetics (Choate, Hogue, etc.).

The Shilen worked very well once I had it glass bedded in a B&C stock. With Black Hills 52 gr. Moly loads it shot 1.5 MOA groups. I also read the comments, but when I bought mine years back no other heavy barrel options existed. Fortunately, mine worked as advertised...


Yeah, my progression (1980s to present) was AR15-AR180-Mini-14/30 and I'm not really an M4 fan. Did love the AR180 (original) though. In Kalifornia (ASFAIK) you can't have a threaded barrel and detachable mag and "brake" tuning on the low recoil mini-14 might be unproductive - especially if you add a heavy barrel.

Originally Posted by bobgengeskahn View Post
What stock are you using? Your barrel mod sounds very close to what mine is at, although I think my barrel might be shorter and my brake a little longer.

Did you actually have good results with a Shilen? All the reviews I have seen and the 'theories' I have read about the Mini have basically discounted the Shilen as a very over priced gimmick that performs mediocre at best.

I was looking at an M4 build, but would rather do work on the mini. That said I'm probably willing to spend a little more than most. The reason I was thinking that a threaded A2 style barrel would be nice would be to fit AR brakes and add a small degree of tune-ability to it, at least in terms of handling...

Last edited by codger; 03-18-2012 at 12:23.
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Old 03-18-2012, 12:14   #21
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Dave's in Covina - I drive by his place on the way to work.

Choate may have changed it as you described, but I doubt those flute cuts would do much... But hey, if it passes LEO inspection it's all good.
I found my muzzle brake years ago at a gun show and have no idea who made it. Works very well though.

Take care...

Originally Posted by JavaBrewer View Post
Thanks for the link to Daves Metal Works. The website is pretty thin on info - is he in SoCal or NorCal? I would prefer someone I didn't have to ship things to.

My Mini is still in DROS so I can't follow up with pictures just yet but the seller pointed out that the exit hole on the Choate is near the bullet diameter. As it stands now the Choate sight and compensator are permanently attached (welded) as the barrel was cut down to make it a final 16.25" with the Choate installed. Replacing it would require a smith - but I would be interested in having the birdcage replaced with what your gun is sporting.

Thanks again.
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Old 03-18-2012, 12:41   #22
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muzzle brake ? for a .223 ? why ?
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Old 03-18-2012, 12:51   #23
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On a light, short-barreled rifle it limits muzzle movement, especially in rapid fire using optics. I know for me it makes a significant difference.
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Old 03-18-2012, 12:55   #24
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It also strips away the expanding gasses from the muzzle, so they dont disrupt the flight of the bullet.
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Old 03-18-2012, 13:15   #25
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oh lord
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